Homosexuality

[Avniel]

Paul spoke for Jesus Christ. It has become holy, anointed scripture. Therefore Jesus says what Paul says.

That's what I am saying.........he is questioning the gospel, says the bible has errors, ignores bible scriptures, said God set us up to fail(i dont even feel comfortable typing that).

 

[Lively Stone]

That's what I am saying.........he is questioning the gospel, says the bible has errors, ignores bible scriptures, said God set us up to fail(i dont even feel comfortable typing that).

Yes, it is a slippery slope that only heads downward.

 

[Octorock]

You have to prove that the Bible approves of men sleeping with men and women sleeping with women.

Go ahead...and don't forget to use all the portions of scripture that speak of such behaviour.

Well, let's start with 1 Corinthians 6:9, and 1 Tim 1:10, shall we?

YouTube - Does 1 Corinthians 6:9 condemn gay relationships?

 

[Lively Stone]

First...this is not your own argument, and this video is simply a rationalizing approach. It is confusing game of semantics because of course---they are confused.

Second: Who is saying something is good and why?

Third: Where in scripture does it say fornication is good? Because that is all that homosexuals do. SEX IS FOR MARRIED PEOPLE ONLY. (Don't use the homosexual marriage argument because it is only due to the strong force of the homosexual agenda putting pressure on weak people in this culture that such marriages have been allowed in certain jurisdictions.)

 

[oi_antz]

Here's the shocker: those of us that do no condemn homosexuality chose not to do so because we believe that's actually what the Bible teaches.

Those that are against homosexuality want to keep insisting that we are trying to go against the Bible.

You should never go against the Bible, accept it and keep reading, it's a lot of stuff for God to speak, and you'll hear Jesus' POV if you worship Him.

, but that's an false characterization. We believe that we truly are following the teachings of Jesus as written in the scriptures.

You're not going to convince us to see things your way when you make false characterizations such as that.

Convincing you? I have been posting a lot today I doubt if I could ever "convince you to see my POV" - simple is we are far too unique to share a comprehension, even with words and imagination to attain that level of communication with each other you still can't understand what makes me write these ideas I have and state them in truth.

My main concern is some negative POV's on God being some harsh judge of wrath and these people have never come to seek Jesus in their life because of one passage they dislike, and if you don't like God you'll never feel His love. We pray for those people .

 

[Octorock]

First...this is not your own argument,

Uh, yes, it is my argument, because I agree with what he says. He and I share the same opinions, so the arguments that I would make are what he is saying. Am I not allowed to submit an argument if it also happens to be somebody else's? What about if someone quotes a bible verse as their argument? Is that not allowed because it's not their own words?

and this video is simply a rationalizing approach. It is confusing game of semantics because of course---they are confused.

Oh, I see. I can't use this argument because you disagree with it. Gotcha.

Second: Who is saying something is good and why?

You're going to have to clarify this question for me.

Third: Where in scripture does it say fornication is good? Because that is all that homosexuals do. SEX IS FOR MARRIED PEOPLE ONLY.

So gays aren't allowed to have sex because it would be out of wedlock...but conservative Christians pass constitutional amendments to forbid gay marriage, so, basically, conservative Christians get to decide entirely on their own that homosexuality is a sin based on technicalities?

(Don't use the homosexual marriage argument because it is only due to the strong force of the homosexual agenda putting pressure on weak people in this culture that such marriages have been allowed in certain jurisdictions.)

Again, why are you telling me that I'm not allowed to use certain arguments?

Also, some would argue that it is only due to the strong force of the anti-homosexual agenda putting pressure on weak people in this culture that such marriages have been banned in certain jurisdictions.

Anyway, here's some commentary on Leviticus 18-20. I apologize that it's once again somebody other than myself speaking the words.

YouTube - Is homosexuality an abomination?

You should never go against the Bible, accept it and keep reading, it's a lot of stuff for God to speak, and you'll hear Jesus' POV if you worship Him.

It almost seems like you didn't even read what you are responding to there. I was saying that those of us who believe that God does not condemn homosexuality don't agree with you that we are going against the Bible...or God or Jesus' POV.

 

[Octorock]

And now here's Genesis 19, and Judges 19:

YouTube - Were Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed for being gay?

 

[oi_antz]

It almost seems like you didn't even read what you are responding to there. I was saying that those of us who believe that God does not condemn homosexuality don't agree with you that we are going against the Bible...or God or Jesus' POV.

I agree with that, no person can tell another "This is what God tells us about sin". Sin is a very personal matter and no such word except The Bible should define sin. Therefore your heart must be honest with Jesus and you will cherish the relationship forever. It just happens to be that those who know Jesus will know how much He loves to see you love Him, but it is a love of the most holiest nature and it is not gay.

There is no mention of God condemning homosexuals, there is mention of a penalty, which I understand is the burden it bears in our relationship with God. It sounds like a mortal sin that is shaken when we ascend to heaven and receive God's glory to the fullest, but always trust your instinct: what do I believe Jesus says when I read those words. All the problems begin when someone hears about what you and I think about it, gossip passed round and most of the world is based on that rather than drawing their own conclusion straight from God.

 

[KCKID]

You should never go against the Bible . . .

Um, except for stoning to death Sabbath-abrogators? adulterers? unruly children? The list could go on. Would you like to qualify your above statement?

 

[Lively Stone]

So gays aren't allowed to have sex because it would be out of wedlock...but conservative Christians pass constitutional amendments to forbid gay marriage, so, basically, conservative Christians get to decide entirely on their own that homosexuality is a sin based on technicalities?

Yes, sex is for married people only. Otherwise it is fornication, another sin. Engaging in repeated sin is a stronghold, and a sign that a person doesn't know God, according to scripture.

Romans 6:1-14 is important!

Sin’s Power Is Broken

1 Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace? 2 Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it? 3 Or have you forgotten that when we were joined with Christ Jesus in baptism, we joined him in his death? 4 For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives. 5 Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was. 6 We know that our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin. 7 For when we died with Christ we were set free from the power of sin. 8 And since we died with Christ, we know we will also live with him. 9 We are sure of this because Christ was raised from the dead, and he will never die again. Death no longer has any power over him. When he died, he died once to break the power of sin. But now that he lives, he lives for the glory of God. 11 So you also should consider yourselves to be dead to the power of sin and alive to God through Christ Jesus.
12 Do not let sin control the way you live; do not give in to sinful desires. 13 Do not let any part of your body become an instrument of evil to serve sin. Instead, give yourselves completely to God, for you were dead, but now you have new life. So use your whole body as an instrument to do what is right for the glory of God. 14 Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God’s grace.

 

[Octorock]

Yes, sex is for married people only. Otherwise it is fornication, another sin. Engaging in repeated sin is a stronghold, and a sign that a person doesn't know God, according to scripture.

Romans 6:1-14 is important!

Sin’s Power Is Broken

1 Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace? 2 Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it? 3 Or have you forgotten that when we were joined with Christ Jesus in baptism, we joined him in his death? 4 For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives. 5 Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was. 6 We know that our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin. 7 For when we died with Christ we were set free from the power of sin. 8 And since we died with Christ, we know we will also live with him. 9 We are sure of this because Christ was raised from the dead, and he will never die again. Death no longer has any power over him. When he died, he died once to break the power of sin. But now that he lives, he lives for the glory of God. 11 So you also should consider yourselves to be dead to the power of sin and alive to God through Christ Jesus.
12 Do not let sin control the way you live; do not give in to sinful desires. 13 Do not let any part of your body become an instrument of evil to serve sin. Instead, give yourselves completely to God, for you were dead, but now you have new life. So use your whole body as an instrument to do what is right for the glory of God. 14 Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God’s grace.

Read my post again; I was not making an argument that sex out of wedlock isn't a sin.

 

[KCKID]

No, we don't have to know all that stuff. All we need to do is read the word and believe it. We need to trust God that He has preserved His message to us intact, and be thankful for those who have toiled so hard for Him in the work of putting the written word together for us.

And, out of the millions of words in the Bible - <staff edit> what IS the word of God? Can you encapsulate it (the word) in simplistic terms since 'we don't need to know all that stuff'?

Children need Jesus and children come to know Him as Lord and Saviour every day. They need a Saviour too, to save them.

<staff edit>

God has given us a marvelous gift of intellect. We aren't to worship it, however, nor allow it to get in the way of discerned truth from the word of God.

<staff edit> Isn't God supposed to reside in one's heart? And, again ...what is the word of God?

Yes, if there is ANYTHING that appears to disagree with our understanding of the word of God, then we need to make an adjustment. The word is never wrong.God is the creator of that natural world, and if it appears to lie, then it is the one with the observational skills that is at odds.

<staff edit> By the way, what IS the word of God? There are many words 'of God' in the Bible. Keep it simple.

If you don't believe the Bible, then you are at odds with God. None of it is optional to believe.

What do you mean, "If you don't believe the Bible" ...? Where in the Bible does it state, "If you don't believe the Bible, then you are at odds with God" ...? Where in the Bible does it state, "None of it is optional to believe" ...?

 

[Avniel]

Um, except for stoning to death Sabbath-abrogators? adulterers? unruly children? The list could go on. Would you like to qualify your above statement?

So are you saying God is unjust?

 

[KCKID]

Paul spoke for Jesus Christ. It has become holy, anointed scripture. Therefore Jesus says what Paul says.

According to who ...Jesus?

You know, Jesus spoke of a number of future events but NOWHERE did He EVER mention that a person from the future named Paul would take over where He left off. Jesus appears never to have known Paul. We simply have to take Paul's word for it. There's an awful lot of pure trust going on here under the banner of 'evidence'.

 

[KCKID]

So are you saying God is unjust?

Well, if you believe that God will torment someone for all eternity for abrogating the Sabbath (which is probably YOU or do you honor Friday sundown to Saturday sundown?), committing adultery, being an unruly child ...then, yes, I would say that such a God is MORE than simply unjust. He would most certainly be a tyrant. I DON'T believe in such a God, however. No Creator God would be a part of any such heinous plan.

 

[Avniel]

Well, if you believe that God will torment someone for all eternity for abrogating the Sabbath (which is probably YOU or do you honor Friday sundown to Saturday sundown?), committing adultery, being an unruly child ...then, yes, I would say that such a God is MORE than simply unjust. He would most certainly be a tyrant. I DON'T believe in such a God, however. No Creator God would be a part of any such heinous plan.

you just called unjust, how cn u be a christian?

 

[Lively Stone]

Read my post again; I was not making an argument that sex out of wedlock isn't a sin.

Homosexual sex is a sin because it is fornicating...for starters.

 

[Lively Stone]

According to who ...Jesus?

You know, Jesus spoke of a number of future events but NOWHERE did He EVER mention that a person from the future named Paul would take over where He left off. Jesus appears never to have known Paul. We simply have to take Paul's word for it. There's an awful lot of pure trust going on here under the banner of 'evidence'.

Jesus knew Paul. He introduced Himself to him personally.

If you don't believe the Bible or trust God to have provided truth for you, then why do you come here?

It ain't a smorgasbord where you can pick and choose what suits you, ya know.

 

[KCKID]

you just called unjust, how cn u be a christian?

Ah, so in your mind I have to call a God who would subject a human being to eternal torment 'a just God' in order to qualify as a Christian, eh? Well, John 3:16 says nothing about about any other criteria for believing except that one believe on Jesus. And I do.

Okay?

 

[KCKID]

Jesus knew Paul. He introduced Himself to him personally.

If you don't believe the Bible or trust God to have provided truth for you, then why do you come here?

It ain't a smorgasbord where you can pick and choose what suits you, ya know.

Okay.