Would you shoot a home invader?

[dinonum]

Jesus the christ knew His destiny and bowed under the will of the Father. The story, however does not end there. Just as He died as a representation of sin on that cross, in disgrace, and it appearing as if the enemy had won, in fact, that is only the beginning. he is now Conqueror. After all God's children are gathered under HIs cloak of righteousness, He will return with no holds barred as Conqueror. He will not be smiling, but will be as a Warrior, and His enemy will not stand a chance. But surely you realize this, brother in chjrist, and son of the Most High God? It is written.

So are we in charge of inflicting His judgement before He comes back as conqueror?

 

[brinny]

So are we in charge of inflicting His judgement before He comes back as conqueror?

We are to stand for righteousness and justice. Now.

 

[ebia]

Hast thou forgotten? God Almight and His righteous Son, Who now stands at His Father's right hand, are righteous and just? Are holy? That they hate un-righteousness and injustice, and spurn those who ALLOW evil? Who contribute to EVIL by not blocking it?

I'm not suggesting that Jesus ignores evil or that we aren't called to do so. Quite the opposite. What I am saying is that we have to follow the Jesus way in addressing evil, or we remain part of the problem rather than becoming part of the solution.

It is written that cowards will not see the kingdom of heaven.

Was Jesus a coward in going to the cross, or Stephen in not fighting back when stoned? Shooting the intruder is precisely as much an act of cowardice as huddling in the corner. The courageous way is Jesus' way.

 

[dinonum]

Where are we told that righteousness and justice are to be done by harming others in defense?

 

[ebia]

Jesus the christ knew His destiny and bowed under the will of the Father. The story, however does not end there. Just as He died as a representation of sin on that cross, in disgrace, and it appearing as if the enemy had won, in fact, that is only the beginning. he is now Conqueror. After all God's children are gathered under HIs cloak of righteousness, He will return with no holds barred as Conqueror. He will not be smiling, but will be as a Warrior, and His enemy will not stand a chance. But surely you realize this, brother in chjrist, and son of the Most High God? It is written.

Yes, but not in the way you think or you've just replaced one Caesar with another one who works the same way. The whole point of the cross is that that is Jesus' way of defeating evil.

 

[Hentenza]

This is how God feels about it.

Exodus 22
2 If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. 3 If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.

 

[dinonum]

This is how God feels about it.

Exodus 22
2 If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. 3 If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.

This was spoken prior to the introduction of the forgiveness and mercy we are to show because of Jesus Christ. Also, I see no reason why saying there is no guilt for the person killing means that we SHOULD kill the person.

 

[Hentenza]

This was spoken prior to the introduction of the forgiveness and mercy we are to show because of Jesus Christ. Also, I see no reason why saying there is no guilt for the person killing means that we SHOULD kill the person.

Mmmm...so does God show more or less mercy than Christ? Does God shows more or less forgiveness than Christ?

 

[dinonum]

Mmmm...so does God show more or less mercy than Christ? Does God shows more or less forgiveness than Christ?

They are one and the same, but Christ is the fulfilling of the law, of forgiveness, mercy, justice, etc. God shows everything, but Christ shows us how to apply those things in our lives properly.

Regardless, my main issue is that the Scripture provided does not require that the first part be fulfilled in order for justice to be found. That one is not REQUIRED to kill the guilty in order for justice to be served.

 

[Hentenza]

They are one and the same, but Christ is the fulfilling of the law, of forgiveness, mercy, justice, etc. God shows everything, but Christ shows us how to apply those things in our lives properly.

Christ is indeed the fulfillment of the law and as Christians we are not under the law, however, the law is holy, therefore, it is how God feels. God's forgiveness, mercy, justice, etc. is the same in the OT as it is in the NT since God is unchangeable.

Regardless, my main issue is that the Scripture provided does not require that the first part be fulfilled in order for justice to be found. That one is not REQUIRED to kill the guilty in order for justice to be served.

The verse I quoted does not say that one MUST kill the intruder, however, it tells us that, if we have to, then we are to feel no guilt which basically means that we have not sinned.

For me, the circumstances will dictate the end result.

 

[wayseer]

Was Jesus a coward in going to the cross, or Stephen in not fighting back when stoned? Shooting the intruder is precisely as much an act of cowardice as huddling in the corner. The courageous way is Jesus' way.

Indeed.

Christ's way confounds our rationalistic thinking.

Jesus defeated evil by demonstrating that evil effectively defeats itself by not understanding that it is the meek who will inherit the earth - not the strong.

Until we can gain an understand of this fact love cannot operate - because love cannot stand upon 'strength and might'. Love can only operate from a perceived 'weakness' - something which always baffles evil.

 

[interested in life]

i think some replies suggesting we matyr ourselves is misapplication.
Arent we better off alive?
Sort of reminds me when satan told jesus to throw himself off the cliff because God would save him.
A home invader isnt entering your premises with the intention of having a cup of tea,i believe that if he is trying to take the gift of life off you,then you are entitled to protect and defend.

 

[brinny]

i think some replies suggesting we matyr ourselves is misapplication.
Arent we better off alive?
Sort of reminds me when satan told jesus to throw himself off the cliff because God would save him.
A home invader isnt entering your premises with the intention of having a cup of tea,i believe that if he is trying to take the gift of life off you,then you are entitled to protect and defend.

Indeed.

 

[Zebra1552]

are you sure...?

Quite sure. If they were finished, Christ would not have commanded us to make disciples. We would not be on Earth. Sinners would not still be sinners.

In the cross evil and death have been decisively dealt with by Jesus' self sacrifice.

Then home invasion would not be an issue. It is. Obviously, someone messed something up somewhere. My money's on your claim that evil's dealt with. If it were, it would not be rampant in the world.

In the resurrection New Creation has begun. That still needs to be fully implemented, consumated, whatever word you like to use,... and we are called to participate in that by living the Jesus way.

Which says nothing about self defense being good or bad. It is a morally neutral action. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

The cross turns the way of solving problems upside-down, and unless one applies that thinking across the board one hasn't begun to take it seriously.

Where is that in Scripture?

Just as one hasn't begun to take the theology of Acts seriously if one tries to dismiss the martydom of Stephen as irrelevant to a question on how to respond to threat.

Because the threat is not religiously based as it was in Stephen's case. You have not addressed anything I've said about that. You merely dismiss it because you think your way is better. I'm not interested in that sort of discussion. I'm interested in facts not supposition.

 

[brinny]

Quite sure. If they were finished, Christ would not have commanded us to make disciples. We would not be on Earth. Sinners would not still be sinners.


Then home invasion would not be an issue. It is. Obviously, someone messed something up somewhere. My money's on your claim that evil's dealt with. If it were, it would not be rampant in the world.


Which says nothing about self defense being good or bad. It is a morally neutral action. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

Where is that in Scripture?


Because the threat is not religiously based as it was in Stephen's case. You have not addressed anything I've said about that. You merely dismiss it because you think your way is better. I'm not interested in that sort of discussion. I'm interested in facts not supposition.

The same way he dismisses the plight of victims.

It is written:

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" ~Isaiah 5:20

 

[Zebra1552]

Indeed.

Christ's way confounds our rationalistic thinking.

Jesus defeated evil by demonstrating that evil effectively defeats itself by not understanding that it is the meek who will inherit the earth - not the strong.

Show that this was talking about the physically meek and strong, please.

Until we can gain an understand of this fact love cannot operate - because love cannot stand upon 'strength and might'. Love can only operate from a perceived 'weakness' - something which always baffles evil.

Evidence?

 

[wayseer]

i think some replies suggesting we matyr ourselves is misapplication.
Arent we better off alive?
Sort of reminds me when satan told jesus to throw himself off the cliff because God would save him.
A home invader isnt entering your premises with the intention of having a cup of tea,i believe that if he is trying to take the gift of life off you,then you are entitled to protect and defend.

All of which stands in stark contradiction to what our Saviour has shown and taught.

 

[wayseer]

Show that this was talking about the physically meek and strong, please.

Do I have t elaborate? How is it that you even have to ask that question. What don't you understand about the death and resurrection of Christ?

Evidence?

The Cross.

 

[brinny]

Do I have t elaborate? How is it that you even have to ask that question. What don't you understand about the death and resurrection of Christ?



The Cross.

Would you protect and defend those who cannot protect or defend themselves?

 

[wayseer]

Would you protect and defend those who cannot protect or defend themselves?

How - by killing others? Hardly solves the problem and creates a whole lot of other problems.

The pervasive aspect of evil was vividly demonstrated in the tragedy that engulfed an Amish school in Pennsylvania (USA) in October 2006 where five school girls died at the hands of a lone gunman. The Amish community offered no TV interview, no press release, no commentary. What they did offer was forgiveness. Through forgiveness, the gunman’s surviving widow and three children received the healing they so desperately sought and needed.