Gays in the army

[Gishin]

The problem is not really about the gay or lesbian soldier, I think you will have found that most people have know at least 1 like that in the military. The problem comes with fraud. In the military, At least in the Marines, single Marines have pretty crappy lives, stuck in squad bays, 3 people in a tiny room with broken utilities etc. This is wear I hear about a lot of Marines get contract marriages. They just find some chick and agree to get married for a few years, she gets benefits+college money, he gets to have a house paid for and a general better standard of living compliments of the military. if gays were openly aloud, whats to stop two guy friends who are tired of there situation from getting married to have a better stand of living....If you want gays in the MARINES then up the standard of living for those single guys so they can stop the whole contract marriage thing....

Sounds like an argument for better barracks then one against gays.

 

[anakonda]

I support Gays in the Military.

 

[Jay217]

The Efficiency of a Military should never be diminished unnecessarily. I am strongly in favor of the idea - Don't Ask Don't Tell. I couldn't care what you do in your bedroom as long as i don't have to see or hear about it.

It is my attitude to gays in general. Even that it is a Sin Against God we have to live Homosexuals just as much as we do with people of other faiths. I don't care if your Gay straight Buddhist or Christian as long as you don't publicly expel these ideals.

If we are in a debate go for it but when I walk down the street i prefer not to have my ears filled with Gay Pride or Even some strong Evangelical man on the street corner.

 

[Gishin]

The Efficiency of a Military should never be diminished unnecessarily. I am strongly in favor of the idea - Don't Ask Don't Tell. I couldn't care what you do in your bedroom as long as i don't have to see or hear about it.

It is my attitude to gays in general. Even that it is a Sin Against God we have to live Homosexuals just as much as we do with people of other faiths. I don't care if your Gay straight Buddhist or Christian as long as you don't publicly expel these ideals.

If we are in a debate go for it but when I walk down the street i prefer not to have my ears filled with Gay Pride or Even some strong Evangelical man on the street corner.

If you're against diminishing the military, then you should be against DADT, as it cuts thousands of effective military personnel needlessly.

As for what you prefer not to hear, that's not exactly their problem.

 

[Jay217]

If you're against diminishing the military, then you should be against DADT, as it cuts thousands of effective military personnel needlessly.

As for what you prefer not to hear, that's not exactly their problem.

I'm against diminishing the effectiveness. Quick excerpt from wiki

the policy prohibits anyone who "demonstrate(s) a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts" from serving in the armed forces of the united states, because "it would create an unacceptable risk to the high standards of morale, good order and discipline, and unit cohesion that are the essence of military capability."

If all are focused on the mission at hand sexual preferences have little use. There are Gay bashers all around and the military is no exception so if you have a Gay basher and a Gay Pride man there will be no cohesion between the members. If the Gays keep their mouths shut and truly do their job the way its meant to be than the Bashers will having nothing to act against nor will the Gays have to feel offended or defend his beliefs.

You and Me and Everyone Else living in our Free Country has the Right to Freely say thier beliefs but if I have to endure hearing about issues in areas they don't belong (other religions coming to my door or chanters in the streets) I too have and will use my own Freedom of Speech and that may not end well :o

 

[nolongerhome]

I'm against diminishing the effectiveness. Quick excerpt from wiki


If all are focused on the mission at hand sexual preferences have little use. There are Gay bashers all around and the military is no exception so if you have a Gay basher and a Gay Pride man there will be no cohesion between the members. If the Gays keep their mouths shut and truly do their job the way its meant to be than the Bashers will having nothing to act against nor will the Gays have to feel offended or defend his beliefs.

You and Me and Everyone Else living in our Free Country has the Right to Freely say thier beliefs but if I have to endure hearing about issues in areas they don't belong (other religions coming to my door or chanters in the streets) I too have and will use my own Freedom of Speech and that may not end well :o

There are racist people in the army. The army is full of people from all racial backgrounds. There are sexist people in the army. Men and women both serve. There are religious people of various types, some who are particularly wary of different religions. There are a people from a range of religions in the military.

The fact that bigots are there is no reason to forbid those who they are bigoted against from serving. It makes much more sense to remove the bigots. Afterall, the gay man, the woman, the minority... they are just individuals there to serve their country. They aren't the cause of the problem - the people who consider these people to be a problem are the cause of the problem.

 

[Jay217]

There are racist people in the army. The army is full of people from all racial backgrounds. There are sexist people in the army. Men and women both serve. There are religious people of various types, some who are particularly wary of different religions. There are a people from a range of religions in the military.

The fact that bigots are there is no reason to forbid those who they are bigoted against from serving. It makes much more sense to remove the bigots. Afterall, the gay man, the woman, the minority... they are just individuals there to serve their country. They aren't the cause of the problem - the people who consider these people to be a problem are the cause of the problem.

The Difference is that Homosexuality is a Sexual Preference. It should have little to no use in the military.

DADT - Gays can be in the military provided they don't express their Homosexuality. What is wrong with that? I wouldn't want a soldier acting Gay male soldier with abunch of other men nor would i want to have a straight soldier flirting with abunch of female soldiers.

If you want to pursue your sexual desires on the Job then the military isn't the job for you.

 

[nolongerhome]

The Difference is that Homosexuality is a Sexual Preference. It should have little to no use in the military.

DADT - Gays can be in the military provided they don't express their Homosexuality. What is wrong with that? I wouldn't want a soldier acting Gay male soldier with abunch of other men nor would i want to have a straight soldier flirting with abunch of female soldiers.

If you want to pursue your sexual desires on the Job then the military isn't the job for you.

You seem to think that if DADT was removed, it would mean "soldiers acting gay with other soldiers". All it means is that a gay soldier doesn't have to remain silent about something about themselves for fear of expulsion from the army. That is it. It isn't about people being able to "pursue their sexual desires" at all.

You wouldn't discharge someone for saying they are a follower of a specific religion. You wouldn't discharge someone for revealing their ethnic background. Why would you discharge someone for revealing their sexuality?

 

[Jay217]

And you seem to think if it was removed their d be no increase of gay activity?

One of the big factors of letting women join the military was the fear of having huge inconsistency due to the sexual issues. As it is there is lots of flaws that have happened and more than one soldier has had major sexual harassment issues and many have gotten pregnant over seas. It's good they are allowed to join but it does cause issues and efficiencies - 2x the # of bathrooms 2 separate barracks.

However Gays have already been able to join its not much of an issue of not being able to join due to his sexuality as they can. However it is they cant EXPRESS it. So they can join and they can do everything a straight man can do and have the same restrictions. Straight Guys can't use vulgar religion to female soliders or face punishment, Gay guys can't make similar notions to other men. Dunno bout you but that sounds fairly even.

 

[Gishin]

And you seem to think if it was removed their d be no increase of gay activity?

One of the big factors of letting women join the military was the fear of having huge inconsistency due to the sexual issues. As it is there is lots of flaws that have happened and more than one soldier has had major sexual harassment issues and many have gotten pregnant over seas. It's good they are allowed to join but it does cause issues and efficiencies - 2x the # of bathrooms 2 separate barracks.

However Gays have already been able to join its not much of an issue of not being able to join due to his sexuality as they can. However it is they cant EXPRESS it. So they can join and they can do everything a straight man can do and have the same restrictions. Straight Guys can't use vulgar religion to female soliders or face punishment, Gay guys can't make similar notions to other men. Dunno bout you but that sounds fairly even.

Straight men can invite their wives to dining outs. Straight men are allowed to have relationships. Straight men are allowed to talk to military psychiatrists about relationship troubles.

All your saying is gay people have the right to be straight like everyone else.

 

[Jay217]

Straight men can invite their wives to dining outs. Straight men are allowed to have relationships. Straight men are allowed to talk to military psychiatrists about relationship troubles.

All your saying is gay people have the right to be straight like everyone else.

I did not know that Men can invite their wives over to Afghanistan to eat dinner with them....

Relationships within the military are frowned upon as they bring up many complications.

Being in Combat I'd think I'd rather be getting help to deal with PTSD, And the loneliness of the military can often be discussed if the person is gay by changing he into she.

Gays have been in our military for thousands of years, They weren't allowed to openly express these feelings but Many great Gay Commanders have led many campaigns filled with glory.

The Military has been praised as they have conformed people into a single effective unit. So why would they change their advantage of fighting as a single entity into the complete opposite?

 

[DougyP]

I support Gays in the Military.

So where do you suggest the gay men sleep, shower, and change? With other naked men, with other naked woman, or other naked gay men.

The best option is for a gay man to sleep, change, and shower with me. They feel ok, but I am the one with eyes going up and down my body.

If you want gays in the military, try standing naked next to one once a day.

 

[Gishin]

So where do you suggest the gay men sleep, shower, and change? With other naked men, with other naked woman, or other naked gay men.

The best option is for a gay man to sleep, change, and shower with me. They feel ok, but I am the one with eyes going up and down my body.

If you want gays in the military, try standing naked next to one once a day.

Gays are already in the military. And they already shower next to non gays.

Most gay men aren't checking you out.

 

[DougyP]

Gays are already in the military. And they already shower next to non gays.

Most gay men aren't checking you out.

And you know this how?

 

[Jay217]

And you know this how?

Gays have been in the military for thousands of years. Military Cohesion has been fine since they didn't have to go out of their way to make sure their 'special' needs are met. Gays Have been in our military and doing just fine so why should we change this system to make things more awkward and more complicated?

If you want to spread your inner emotions and express your individuality you can look for a new career IMO.

As for the "Most Gays Aren't Checking you out"

I call BS. Me and Most of my friends are not nearly as perverted as most teenage boys but there is rarely a girl who walks by where somebody doesn't make a "rating" or comment. The Thing is since Homosexuality is a minority view Gays are more likely to keep their thoughts to themselves (In some cases For their own public safety).

Are gay men checking you out? Yepp, Are they gonna say something about it? Most Likely not unless in a very secure enviroment.

 

[Gishin]

And you know this how?

I'm in the military.

 

[Gishin]

Gays have been in the military for thousands of years. Military Cohesion has been fine since they didn't have to go out of their way to make sure their 'special' needs are met. Gays Have been in our military and doing just fine so why should we change this system to make things more awkward and more complicated?

If you want to spread your inner emotions and express your individuality you can look for a new career IMO.

As for the "Most Gays Aren't Checking you out"

I call BS. Me and Most of my friends are not nearly as perverted as most teenage boys but there is rarely a girl who walks by where somebody doesn't make a "rating" or comment. The Thing is since Homosexuality is a minority view Gays are more likely to keep their thoughts to themselves (In some cases For their own public safety).

Are gay men checking you out? Yepp, Are they gonna say something about it? Most Likely not unless in a very secure enviroment.

They have not been doing just fine, otherwise there wouldn't be such an outcry against DADT.

As far as not checking you out, you got time to ogle at someone when you have a mission to accomplish?

 

[nolongerhome]

And you seem to think if it was removed their d be no increase of gay activity?

Why would there be?

However Gays have already been able to join its not much of an issue of not being able to join due to his sexuality as they can. However it is they cant EXPRESS it. So they can join and they can do everything a straight man can do and have the same restrictions. Straight Guys can't use vulgar religion to female soliders or face punishment, Gay guys can't make similar notions to other men. Dunno bout you but that sounds fairly even.

I have no idea what "straight Guys can't use vulgar religion to female soliders or face punishment" means... though you seem to be confused here between being allowed to say the simple fact "I am gay" without fear of punishment and an act of sexual harrassment against another soldier. They aren't the same thing. I don't know why you would think they were.

A gay man can join the army and do everything a straight man can do, except:
- be honest about their sexuality and their personal relationships
- approach the military or any military services in any way that reveals their sexuality

So no, they don't have the same restrictions.

 

[Jay217]

Why would there be?



I have no idea what "straight Guys can't use vulgar religion to female soliders or face punishment" means... though you seem to be confused here between being allowed to say the simple fact "I am gay" without fear of punishment and an act of sexual harrassment against another soldier. They aren't the same thing. I don't know why you would think they were.

A gay man can join the army and do everything a straight man can do, except:
- be honest about their sexuality and their personal relationships
- approach the military or any military services in any way that reveals their sexuality

So no, they don't have the same restrictions.

Gay Friendly Environment tend to draw more homosexuals than non-friendly. 'Nuff Said.

If a Man uses vulgar language* sorry about that error. Funny thing is to most guys I would feel harrassed if a gay man told me that. How would you feel a girl told you she's single and straight or a gay man told you face-to-face? Not exactly non-threatening.


So a Straight Man and Gay Men are that different. Do they need seperate showing facilities because apparently they can follow the EXACT SAME guidelines as everyone else? or hey we could them new 'trendy' outfits to replace their dreary camo and put them beside the KZ? that'd solve many problems... *Sarcasm Alert*

IMO ya things should be relaxed discharging because one is gay isn't right but doesn't mean we should endorse Homosexual Behavior. If you want a homogeneous solution (pun intended) why add non-soluble solvents?

I have no problem if a Gay man enlists in the Army, i care if he thinks due to his minority views they should be embraced and enforced!

 

[nolongerhome]

Gay Friendly Environment tend to draw more homosexuals than non-friendly. 'Nuff Said.

If a Man uses vulgar language* sorry about that error. Funny thing is to most guys I would feel harrassed if a gay man told me that. How would you feel a girl told you she's single and straight or a gay man told you face-to-face? Not exactly non-threatening.


So a Straight Man and Gay Men are that different. Do they need seperate showing facilities because apparently they can follow the EXACT SAME guidelines as everyone else? or hey we could them new 'trendy' outfits to replace their dreary camo and put them beside the KZ? that'd solve many problems... *Sarcasm Alert*

IMO ya things should be relaxed discharging because one is gay isn't right but doesn't mean we should endorse Homosexual Behavior. If you want a homogeneous solution (pun intended) why add non-soluble solvents?

I have no problem if a Gay man enlists in the Army, i care if he thinks due to his minority views they should be embraced and enforced!

I think it would take a little more than the removal of DADT to make the military "gay friendly". I think you will find the homosexual men and women that sign up are going to be incredibly serious about doing their job because they have chosen a career path which will present them with difficulties - they must really want to do it.

I still don't get the "vulgar language" link - harrassment is harrassment, it is different to saing "I'm gay". If someone came up to me and, with no prompting, told me their sexual preference and marital status, I'd think it was an odd thing to do. I wouldn't be threatened. How is it threatening? Or are you suggesting it is vulgar for someone to say that they are gay?

Taking a more realistic scenario, if you are talking to someone and you ask them if they "have a husband/wife back home" or something like that, and they say "No, I'm gay", is there any harrassment there? Is it vulgar? I think it is just a statement of fact. This is the kind of thing which a homosexual man or woman can not answer with honesty right now for fear of discharge.

Would you seriously feel threatened if someone told you they were gay? What do you think they are going to do to you?

I don't know why you think this has anything to do with "endorsing homosexual behaviour" within the military. It isn't about encouraging members of the military to have sexual relationships with each other, which I agree is problematic, regardless of whether it is straight or gay. It is just about letting people be honest and not have to hide who they are so that they can continue to serve.

If you really have no problem with gay people enlisting, what is the problem with them being able to be openly gay? They aren't "forcing minority views" on you - they just want the right not to be kicked out of the army if it is revealed that they are gay. No one will be kicked out of the military just for being straight, so I don't see why anyone should be kicked out just for being gay.