Who is the first Christian to deny the Primacy of Peter or his successors?

[MrPolo]

No, I did not read the article. I don't want an argument from a sola scripturist. I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but do you happen to have a site that is not Catholic based? If not, I suppose I will have to research this on my own.

If you don't want a Catholic source listing raw Scripture, and you don't want to read John MacArthur who is openly anti-Catholic, could you give me a hint as to what kind of source will qualify?

 

[chestertonrules]

We still don't reject the primacy of honor held by the Bishop of Rome.

How do Orthodox Christians honor the primacy of the Bishop of Rome?

 

[Unashamed Jesus Freak]

I will look at the site you provided. It will take me some time to go through all those biblical references though. I don't want to argue or quarrel with anyone.

 

[MrPolo]

I will look at the site you provided. It will take me some time to go through all those biblical references though. I don't want to argue or quarrel with anyone.

Super! Just because we're in General Theology, you don't HAVE to argue or quarrel.

 

[Unashamed Jesus Freak]

Sites like this particular one I can read and understand, without much complication.

I also like this site here, which I find quite helpful and easy to navigate. I like simple, straight forward resources and information.

 

[chestertonrules]

=I can't find anything in Scripture saying that Peter or any other apostle state that their apostolic authority would be passed on to successors either. Would someone please direct me to the biblical references on this issue? Thank you.

Acts 1
20"For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms,
" 'May his place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in it,' and,
" 'May another take his place of leadership.' 21Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection."
23So they proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs." 26Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

2 Tim 2:2
2And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others.


Also, from St. Clement, who was ordained by Peter:

"And thus preaching through countries and cities, they appointed the first-fruits [of their labours], having first proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons of those who should afterwards believe. Nor was this any new thing, since indeed many ages before it was written concerning bishops and deacons. For thus saith the Scripture a certain place, 'I will appoint their bishops s in righteousness, and their deacons in faith.'... Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and there would be strife on account of the office of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained a perfect fore-knowledge of this, they appointed those [ministers] already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry...For our sin will not be small, if we eject from the episcopate those who have blamelessly and holily fulfilled its duties." Pope Clement, Epistle to Corinthians, 42, 44 (A.D. 98).

 

[Fireinfolding]

Thank GOD the page rolled over too I can now SEE

 

[Unashamed Jesus Freak]

Super! Just because we're in General Theology, you don't HAVE to argue or quarrel.

Sadly, such discussions tend to digress into arguments and quarrels though.

 

[Unashamed Jesus Freak]

Thank you for the Scriptures, chestertonrules. I appreciate it very much.

 

[Unashamed Jesus Freak]

Thank GOD the page rolled over too I can now SEE

Prayer works!

 

[MrPolo]

I also like this site here, which I find quite helpful and easy to navigate. I like simple, straight forward resources and information.

My dear, I do not think you are going to get an accurate understanding of true Catholic teaching if you believe you will get accuracy from sites like CARM. Of course, that's if you really are interesting in an accurate understanding of Catholic teaching in the first place!

Speaking of CARM, I had an email exchange with one of the guys answering Matt Slick's emails a couple years ago. As a Catholic, I think the folks at CARM understand Catholicism as poorly as anyone. Check out some the debate Matt Slick did with Catholic Mark Bonocore back in 2006 when you have lots of free time. As I recall, they even discuss the primacy of Peter.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Prayer works!

"then something like cyber scales fell from my eyes"

Page 4 is still not visible to me sis only 5 for some reason, I need to pray then (because I didnt do that) lol

How bout the Apostle and high priest Christ huh?

Bishop also, love that hes counted helps with "other things"

 

[Fireinfolding]

My dear, I do not think you are going to get an accurate understanding of true Catholic teaching if you believe you will get accuracy from sites like CARM. Of course, that's if you really are interesting in an accurate understanding of Catholic teaching in the first place!

Speaking of CARM, I had an email exchange with one of the guys answering Matt Slick's emails a couple years ago. As a Catholic, I think the folks at CARM understand Catholicism as poorly as anyone. Check out some the debate Matt Slick did with Catholic Mark Bonocore back in 2006 when you have lots of free time. As I recall, they even discuss the primacy of Peter.

CARM is nasty (I must confess)

 

[Unashamed Jesus Freak]

Oh. Maybe I shouldn't go back to CARM then. Why is it nasty? I'm confused.

 

[Unashamed Jesus Freak]

CARM was recommended to me by another Christian.

 

[MrPolo]

CARM was recommended to me by another Christian.

I'm not dictating to you where you should go or not go. I am giving my opinion that you will not get an accurate portrayal of Catholic theology from that site.

I do hear the forums there are quite nasty and I generally don't engage in lengthy conversation with people who will talk past me and not exercise charity or reason. That being said, that Slick vs. Bonocore debate I linked you to was rather civil as I recall.

 

[Fireinfolding]

CARM was recommended to me by another Christian.

Its got its good qualities UJF its good for developing communication skills and practicing holding ones tongue (self control) and testing your limits to the max, afterall the Spirit led Jesus into the wilderness right?

 

[Deut 5:29]

Who is the first Christian to deny the Primacy of Peter or his successors?

.

The first one that ever heard of it and every one of them since

 

[Fireinfolding]

When Paul got up in Peters face cause the all dissembled in him too huh?

 

[Christos Anesti]

How do Orthodox Christians honor the primacy of the Bishop of Rome?

The primacy of honor held by the Bishop of Rome isn't a dogma of the Church it's a matter of discipline that is predicated on there being a Bishop of Rome in the first place. Our Church no longer has a bishop there because (from the Orthodox perspective of course) the person who was acting as Bishop of Rome went into schism and was no longer a Bishop in the Church. He lost his office. If theoretically we appointed a new Bishop of Rome (highly unlikely) I would assume we would still be canonically bound to recognize his primacy of honor unless maybe we had an ecumenical council and changed which see held that primacy. This is just my own take on the issue though. It's a pretty complex issue.