Astrophysics: what is / was the firmament made out of?

[MorkandMindy]

What is / was the firmament made out of?



Firmament is the term used in the KJV for the Hebrew word rawkee or rawkah

rawkee could be translated as 'expanse' or 'the visible arch of the sky'
rawkah as 'pound' 'beat' 'spread out into plates' 'stamp' or 'stretch


but what helps is the term also appears in Job37:

Here are four translations:

18Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass? (KJV)

18 can you join him in spreading out the skies,
hard as a mirror of cast bronze? (NIV)

18Can you, like him,(Y) spread out the skies,
hard as a cast metal(Z) mirror? (ESV)

Can you, like him, spread out the skies,
unyielding as a cast mirror? (NRSV)


Will they be able to make some at CERN?
.

 

[Hespera]

stuff. its made of stuff.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Jello pudding?

 

[SithDoughnut]

Magic dust that allows huge amounts of water to stay in the atmosphere beyond what would be reasonable nowadays.

 

[juvenissun]

What is / was the firmament made out of?



Firmament is the term used in the KJV for the Hebrew word rawkee or rawkah

rawkee could be translated as 'expanse' or 'the visible arch of the sky'
rawkah as 'pound' 'beat' 'spread out into plates' 'stamp' or 'stretch


but what helps is the term also appears in Job37:

Here are four translations:

18Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass? (KJV)

18 can you join him in spreading out the skies,
hard as a mirror of cast bronze? (NIV)

18Can you, like him,(Y) spread out the skies,
hard as a cast metal(Z) mirror? (ESV)

Can you, like him, spread out the skies,
unyielding as a cast mirror? (NRSV)


Will they be able to make some at CERN?
.

So, it could be something which is in 3D (or 4D), but is observed on the surface which is 2D. It could be a visual image, or a property of a substance/energy.

If so, many things could fit the description.

 

[Hespera]

So, it could be something which is in 3D (or 4D), but is observed on the surface which is 2D. It could be a visual image, or a property of a substance/energy.

If so, many things could fit the description.

many things, as long as none of them have to be real.

 

[AV1611VET]

What is / was the firmament made out of?

It depends on which firmament you're talking about.

There are three of them -- also called "heavens":

1. first heaven = atmosphere = 0-62 miles up
2. second heaven = outer space = 62 miles - heaven
3. third heaven = heaven proper

A firmament is nothing more than a containment field, made to house specific objects.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

It depends on which firmament you're talking about.

There are three of them -- also called "heavens":

1. first heaven = atmosphere = 0-62 miles up
2. second heaven = outer space = 62 miles - heaven
3. third heaven = heaven proper

A firmament is nothing more than a containment field, made to house specific objects.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Magic dust that allows huge amounts of water to stay in the atmosphere beyond what would be reasonable nowadays.

6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.


I think it is fair to speculate that it is microporous PTFE - water vapour molecules are nanometer-size and go through but the surface tension of liquid water would not allow it through. But as you say it is particulate - where gaps open up rain does come down.

Slight problem though as God refers to it again in Job and makes it clear that the firmament is as strong as cast bronze.

So, it could be something which is in 3D (or 4D), but is observed on the surface which is 2D. It could be a visual image, or a property of a substance/energy.

If so, many things could fit the description.

14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;

I think the 'lights' referred to are stars as the text continues to describe the Sun, Moon and stars and restates that the stars are set in the firmament:

15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth,

 

[BranwenUerchLlyr]

I took an ancient Hebrew scriptures class. Lets see if I can paraphrase..

The words/phrases used for the firmament were the same used to refer to a crude slab of metal used for hammering into a shield. It was based on Egyptian concepts of the cosmos, not comparable to anything known in modern times.

http://skepticblog.org/wp-content/uploads/heaven_of_heavens.jpg

 

[AV1611VET]

The words/phrases used for the firmament were the same used to refer to a crude slab of metal used for hammering into a shield. It was based on Egyptian concepts of the cosmos, not comparable to anything known in modern times.

If this is true, then you're certainly not looking at a copy that Adam wrote, as the Egyptians didn't exist at the time.

In any event, abandoning the King James, which is a direct copy in English of what Adam wrote, can lead to error doctrine.

 

[juvenissun]

I took an ancient Hebrew scriptures class. Lets see if I can paraphrase..

The words/phrases used for the firmament were the same used to refer to a crude slab of metal used for hammering into a shield. It was based on Egyptian concepts of the cosmos, not comparable to anything known in modern times.

http://skepticblog.org/wp-content/uploads/heaven_of_heavens.jpg

If one put himself into the shoes of ancient Hebrew or Egyptian, this word makes sense.

If one like to examine it with the modern scientific understanding, it could also make sense.

But we should not mix the two according to the literal meaning of this word.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

If this is true, then you're certainly not looking at a copy that Adam wrote, as the Egyptians didn't exist at the time.

In any event, abandoning the King James, which is a direct copy in English of what Adam wrote, can lead to error doctrine.

LOL what have you been smoking AV? The King James writers translated the Old Testament from Masoretic Texts. The earliest extant copy of the Masoretic Texts was written in the 9th century AD. Even your mythology has Adam long dead by then.

 

[AV1611VET]

LOL what have you been smoking AV? The King James writers translated the Old Testament from Masoretic Texts.

So?

Why didn't they write 'metal plate' then? or whatever it was supposed to be?

Where the King James Bible differs from the Masoretic Text, the Masoretic Text is wrong.

 

[ArnautDaniel]

A firmament is nothing more than a containment field.

You've been watching too much bad scifi.

 

[AV1611VET]

You've been watching too much bad scifi.

I must have missed the show where the sky is some kind of metal plate.

(But then, so did the King James writers.)

 

[ArnautDaniel]

I must have missed the show where the sky is some kind of metal plate.

(But then, so did the King James writers.)

Actually, traditionally it was taken to be some sort of transparent crystaline sphere (or series of spheres).

Anyway, I was just commenting on your choice of lingo. It just has the ring of some kind of Star Trek deus ex machina.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

So?

Why didn't they write 'metal plate' then? or whatever it was supposed to be?

Maybe because by then the knew the "firmament" was a figment of the imagination of primative people.

Where the King James Bible differs from the Masoretic Text, the Masoretic Text is wrong.

This is breathtakingly illogical. I guess it is a standard belief of people who worship the King James Bible but it is stunningly absurd.

 

[ArnautDaniel]

In any event, abandoning the King James, which is a direct copy in English of what Adam wrote, can lead to error doctrine.

Adam and Eve spoke English in the Garden of Eden?

Anyway, are you sure it isn't the Latin vulgate we should be looking at? After all, that appears to be where the word "firmament" is coming from:

6 Dixit quoque Deus: Fiat firmamentum in medio aquarum: et dividat aquas ab aquis.
7 Et fecit Deus firmamentum, divisitque aquas, quæ erant sub firmamento, ab his, quæ erant super firmamentum. Et factum est ita.
8 Vocavitque Deus firmamentum, Cælum: et factum est vespere et mane, dies secundus.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Adam and Eve spoke English in the Garden of Eden?

Of course they did. But the Snake no doubt spoke French and the Angel with the flaming sword definitely spoke German.