The Dodwell Data now out!!!!!

[Tomatoman]

dad:

Yes, they do, try to support your claims that they do not..

Why talk for nothing?

It's never seemed to have bothered you before. You've just described every post you've ever written.

 

[Nostromo]

So you have been to the ark? To Eden? To creation week? You measured plant growth, and life spans there?

My point exactly. I haven't been there, but given my experience I know that such things would be wildly improbable. Evidence is needed for such claims, and a first century Harry Potter just isn't enough. We also have evidence for an alternate series of events which contradicts said book, all that needs to suddenly disappear to make your ideas plausible.

 

[dad]

dad:


It's never seemed to have bothered you before. You've just described every post you've ever written.

Nope.

 

[dad]

My point exactly. I haven't been there, but given my experience I know that such things would be wildly improbable.

You know from what, 19 years experience..? Broaden your horizons. You don't know what the days of Adam were like.

Evidence is needed for such claims, and a first century Harry Potter just isn't enough. We also have evidence for an alternate series of events which contradicts said book, all that needs to suddenly disappear to make your ideas plausible.

It is gone. Relax. It was just a misty dream. It never had any real basis in fact, and was a dishonest anti God presumptuous con job.

 

[Nostromo]

You know from what, 19 years experience..?

The combined experience of billions of people. Unfortunately I've not been 19 for a while.

Broaden your horizons.

Is that a joke? Should I follow your example and develop a lifelong unwavering attachment to a belief that is at odds with reality? Do one's horizons broaden when they encompass a single narrow view that agrees with yours and rejects all others?

You don't know what the days of Adam were like.

I don't even know that Adam existed.

It is gone. Relax. It was just a misty dream. It never had any real basis in fact, and was a dishonest anti God presumptuous con job.

Every discussion with you eventually boils down to "You're all wrong because dad says so". I can't even fathom why you brought forward Dodwell's attempt at scientific support for catastrophism, when you think science is worse than useless.

 

[dad]

The combined experience of billions of people. Unfortunately I've not been 19 for a while.

The combined experience of billions includes the spiritual. None of those people were alive 200 years ago. We are talking about a time long before they were born.

Is that a joke? Should I follow your example and develop a lifelong unwavering attachment to a belief that is at odds with reality?

The reality of the present is at odds with God, and the spiritual, and the bible, and history. In no way is it the reality of the far past! Certainly in no way that science can demo!

Do one's horizons broaden when they encompass a single narrow view that agrees with yours and rejects all others?

Agrees with me on...what? Jesus? The coming new heavens? Well, I would think that accepting Jesus broadens our horizons. Thinking otherwise is a misconception. It looks narrow at the start, like a funnel, but it opens up more and more to eternity itself!

The knowledge of man looks big but it leads to a narrow place, the opposite.

I don't even know that Adam existed.

I know Jesus did, and He spoke of him, in fact, created him!

Every discussion with you eventually boils down to "You're all wrong because dad says so". I can't even fathom why you brought forward Dodwell's attempt at scientific support for catastrophism, when you think science is worse than useless.

It is OK as far as it goes. It does not go to the new heavens and future, or the creation, and the far past. It is bound to the temporal present, like a slave to the oars.

 

[Nostromo]

The reality of the present is at odds with God, and the spiritual, and the bible, and history.

If we remove from that sentence "the spiritual", "God" and "history" then I agree with you.

The meat of any discussion we have is that you believe the Bible and that's the end of it.
I don't, because such magnificent claims as exist therein require some sort of corroboration. I don't just believe what everybody tells me, particularly when the claim seems so fantastic as to be impossible.

It seems reasonable to me that some overzealous folk talked up Jesus' exploits and gave us the story we have today. I'm sure you'd agree that the human brain is great at coming up with strange ideas to fill in the gaps of knowledge.

You would much rather believe it's true, not because the evidence supports it but in spite of the evidence against it. You're quite happy to invent a new reality that exists somewhere out of our reach so that we can't violate it with any certainty. That is certainly your prerogative, but don't pretend to us that it has any solid basis or is the product of anything more than wishful thinking.

 

[dad]

If we remove from that sentence "the spiritual", "God" and "history" then I agree with you.

So tell us then, how does science of the present manage to not be at odds with spirits, or spiritual?

The meat of any discussion we have is that you believe the Bible and that's the end of it.

No, that is just part of it. Just like accepting gravity is part of it. I accept evidence.

I don't, because such magnificent claims as exist therein require some sort of corroboration. I don't just believe what everybody tells me, particularly when the claim seems so fantastic as to be impossible.

Me either, the universe was never stuffed in a speck, and all life never started from a bacteria like sweet near nothing.

It seems reasonable to me that some overzealous folk talked up Jesus' exploits and gave us the story we have today. I'm sure you'd agree that the human brain is great at coming up with strange ideas to fill in the gaps of knowledge.

Only in science. The life of Jesus is fact, that was witnessed.

You would much rather believe it's true, not because the evidence supports it but in spite of the evidence against it. You're quite happy to invent a new reality that exists somewhere out of our reach so that we can't violate it with any certainty. That is certainly your prerogative, but don't pretend to us that it has any solid basis or is the product of anything more than wishful thinking.

The new heavens is not wishful thinking. It is a fact of the future stated by God. There is no evidence that the past was not in a different state, or that it was in the present state. To claim so is wishful thinking, wishful doubting.

 

[Nostromo]

So tell us then, how does science of the present manage to not be at odds with spirits, or spiritual?

If there is a spiritual world outside the physical world, science cannot say anything about it, science deals with the observable and testable.

I accept evidence.

You accept evidence if it fits the idea you already had in mind.

Me either, the universe was never stuffed in a speck, and all life never started from a bacteria like sweet near nothing.

They do seem far fetched, but fit in with what we see. Could God not make those things possible?

Only in science. The life of Jesus is fact, that was witnessed...
The new heavens is not wishful thinking. It is a fact of the future stated by God.

A thing being written doesn't make it true.

There is no evidence that the past was not in a different state, or that it was in the present state. To claim so is wishful thinking, wishful doubting.

Yes there is, you don't accept it because it doesn't fit in with your idea.

You've tried to show that the past was different, but for some reason that isn't working out.

 

[dad]

If there is a spiritual world outside the physical world, science cannot say anything about it, science deals with the observable and testable.

Thank you! That is the issue here. If there is a spiritual world outside the present state physical world, that will exist in the future, science cannot say anything about it. If there is a spiritual world outside the present state physical world, that did exist in the past, science cannot say anything about it, as science deals with the observable and testable.

You accept evidence if it fits the idea you already had in mind.They do seem far fetched, but fit in with what we see. Could God not make those things possible?A thing being written doesn't make it true.Yes there is, you don't accept it because it doesn't fit in with your idea.

You've tried to show that the past was different, but for some reason that isn't working out.

It couldn't work any better. It's a slam dunk. The present state gets dunked and slammed, because it cannot go to the past. No evidence exists anywhere to reject, or accept that says it did.

Isn't it time you accept that God really was right all along?

 

[Nostromo]

Thank you! That is the issue here. If there is a spiritual world outside the present state physical world, that will exist in the future, science cannot say anything about it. If there is a spiritual world outside the present state physical world, that did exist in the past, science cannot say anything about it, as science deals with the observable and testable.

Which in turn means that you can't say anything about it either.

It couldn't work any better. It's a slam dunk. The present state gets dunked and slammed, because it cannot go to the past. No evidence exists anywhere to reject, or accept that says it did.

Isn't it time you accept that God really was right all along?

See above.

 

[dad]

Which in turn means that you can't say anything about it either.
See above.

Not at all. I am not limited to the physical only, as science is. I include it, but am not bound by it alone when it comes to how the far past was.

 

[Nostromo]

I thought your information came from the Bible, last time I looked it was part of the physical world.

 

[dad]

I thought your information came from the Bible, last time I looked it was part of the physical world.

Look again. It talks of things spiritual, and a non physical only hereafter.

 

[Nostromo]

But the Bible itself and all the methods you have of interrogating it are constrained to the physical.

 

[dad]

But the Bible itself and all the methods you have of interrogating it are constrained to the physical.

Believers also partake of the heavenly, that is, the spiritual. We not only test it, it tests us! Rather than some big fluke with no meaning, as so called science preaches, we have tests for a reason.

By 'taste and see' that He is good, and doesn't mean just eat apple pie. Being born of the spirit is not a physical activity. Yet in all these things and more we feel the results. To change an old building, we send in physical workers. Not so for our earthly home, the real us that dwells inside our body. That takes something spiritual to fix.

Yet, the people fleeing slavery in Egypt ate real food. That was one way of 'interrogating' the word of God. Same with the thousands and thousands of people that ate the loaves and fish. Same with the multitudes that were totally healed. They had physical proof. Same with those raised from the dead. Same with the people crossing the sea, when God parted it. Etc etc. The bible is an ancient roadmap, full of proofs along the way. Jesus doesn't set the calendar, and affect the rise or fall of nations, and have billions of impacted lives. Not impacted with a sugar pill or imagination either.

 

[Orogeny]

So then you've completely abandoned any pretense of making a 'scientific' argument. Good.

 

[dad]

So then you've completely abandoned any pretense of making a 'scientific' argument. Good.

I have merely had little reason, in responding to empty posts, to look at the stuff. Work on that.

 

[sandwiches]

Believers also partake of the heavenly, that is, the spiritual. We not only test it, it tests us! Rather than some big fluke with no meaning, as so called science preaches, we have tests for a reason.

By 'taste and see' that He is good, and doesn't mean just eat apple pie. Being born of the spirit is not a physical activity. Yet in all these things and more we feel the results. To change an old building, we send in physical workers. Not so for our earthly home, the real us that dwells inside our body. That takes something spiritual to fix.

Yet, the people fleeing slavery in Egypt ate real food. That was one way of 'interrogating' the word of God. Same with the thousands and thousands of people that ate the loaves and fish. Same with the multitudes that were totally healed. They had physical proof. Same with those raised from the dead. Same with the people crossing the sea, when God parted it. Etc etc. The bible is an ancient roadmap, full of proofs along the way. Jesus doesn't set the calendar, and affect the rise or fall of nations, and have billions of impacted lives. Not impacted with a sugar pill or imagination either.

I feel a warm fuzzy feeling when I eat barbecue. Is that spiritual? If not, how can you tell the difference?

 

[dad]

I feel a warm fuzzy feeling when I eat barbecue. Is that spiritual? If not, how can you tell the difference?

The spiritual is not a feeling. It is another parallel reality to the physical state we exist in, that we are unable to detect. Real beings exist in that state, good and bad, and can, God willing, visit our state. Included in their visits can be merging with the inner being of men. When spiritual reality is applied to a local situation in this earth, the normal rules are no longer applicable. This we call a miracle. Actually, it is science of the true state! To the ignorant barbarian cave mannish science of the physical only, it looks like magic.

Hope that clears it up. Get saved, people, don't let the bad spirits get ya.