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Salvation and the Trinity
- Thread starter Searching_for_Christ
- Start date
IreneAdler
more binah in her finger than in your whole body
I get that, and don't have much commentary on geometry vs. religion. Just like the picture
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Try doing that animation picture in real life. It doesn't work, it is not real.
The bible says that
Psalm 83:18 (Darby Translation)
18That they may know that thou alone, whose name is Jehovah, art the Most High over all the earth.
Psalms 92:8 But you are on high to time indefinite, O Jehovah.
If you say there is a Trinity, that contradicts these scriptures.
The Trinity was pagan before Jesus came along to the earth. And it was about 3rd century at the time of Constantine that the pagan idea of a trinity , in Christendom, came about.
So any idea of who God is has to support these scriptures, and not contradict them.
The bible says that
Psalm 83:18 (Darby Translation)
18That they may know that thou alone, whose name is Jehovah, art the Most High over all the earth.
Psalms 92:8 But you are on high to time indefinite, O Jehovah.
If you say there is a Trinity, that contradicts these scriptures.
The Trinity was pagan before Jesus came along to the earth. And it was about 3rd century at the time of Constantine that the pagan idea of a trinity , in Christendom, came about.
So any idea of who God is has to support these scriptures, and not contradict them.
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IreneAdler
more binah in her finger than in your whole body
Eh, I won't say that. Isn't there a heirarchy in trinitarian ideation of the Father/Son/Holy Ghost?
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No. The ones that believe in the trinity is a pagan idea the came in about 3rd
century.Jehovah is God he was not created. Jesus was the first creation. The Holy spirit is not a person at all, but God's power, that he uses to accomplish things. But Jesus has his own thoughts and will, to do things.
Man did not kill God , they killed Gods Son.
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Yes I know. Just about all of Christendom , teaches that there is a trinity.
But that totally nullifies the ransom sacrifice Jesus, underwent.
Satan's challenge to God was that man would only serve God for what God gives him. Adam failed that test and sided with Satan.
So Jehovah sent his Son Jesus, and Satan tested him ( to the death ).
Now, Satan, didn't say that God would be loyal to himself, under test. The test was, would any man stay loyal to God under test. So Jehovah sent his Son Jesus as a man to be tested. and He passed. He was perfect and passed that test, which proved Satan a liar.
Jesus even asked Jehovah if he could have this cup( this test to death) bypassed. But then said not my will but your will. So Jesus was doing this for his father, not for himself.
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Why just limit it to God? why not say God's word cannot be captured by our limited little concepts of is/is not / both / neither. why not say all scripture cannot be captured? why say just some scriptures can't be captured? which would mean, just throw the bible out. No the truth is this kind of argument of yours is only used to justify contradictions in your theology, not god, or his word, only your theology. You interpret scripture to result in a contradiction and justify it with this nonsense."Trinity" is to "person" as "cube" is to "line".
Explore the possibility that God cannot be captured by our limited little concepts of "is"/"is not"/"both"/"neither".
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The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. Acts 17:24–25.
For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed. Mal. 3:6.
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God. Ps. 90:2.
Am I a God at hand, declares the Lord, and not a God far away? Can a man hide himself in secret places so that I cannot see him? declares the Lord. Do I not fill heaven and earth? Jer. 23:23–24.
Other than having some picture in our heads of some kind of superhero with big muscles, can any human being really mentally "capture" these passages?
It does not contradict scripture to state that God possesses incommunicable attributes. Indeed if he didn't he wouldn't be God. You are indeed correct - not all scripture can be "captured" - by the mind. Therefore is there some other faculty by which we're meant to read it?
God is entirely expressible by his word, but not wholly conceivable.
A lot of worship comes down to "God is big and strong". Of course he is - bigger and stronger than your mind.
For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed. Mal. 3:6.
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God. Ps. 90:2.
Am I a God at hand, declares the Lord, and not a God far away? Can a man hide himself in secret places so that I cannot see him? declares the Lord. Do I not fill heaven and earth? Jer. 23:23–24.
Other than having some picture in our heads of some kind of superhero with big muscles, can any human being really mentally "capture" these passages?
It does not contradict scripture to state that God possesses incommunicable attributes. Indeed if he didn't he wouldn't be God. You are indeed correct - not all scripture can be "captured" - by the mind. Therefore is there some other faculty by which we're meant to read it?
God is entirely expressible by his word, but not wholly conceivable.
A lot of worship comes down to "God is big and strong". Of course he is - bigger and stronger than your mind.
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The bible was written so that God could tell us about himself. What we need to know about him is in the bible. To speculate or go past what the bible says serves no purpose.
The bible gets man back to what Adam and Eve lost. A perfect body and mind and a paradise earth, but filled with people. Then we have the same choice as Adam did. Will we remain loyal to God or not? Once that is done, then everything opens up. ( God's rest day is over, and new scrolls will be opened. )
That is when we will find out news things about God.
But first we have to make the right choices, to get to that point. The bible was written for us, that tells you a lot about him. That's a good place to start.
For instance we know that Jehovah alone is God the Father. Jesus was Jehovah's first creation, his Son. A lot of Christian religions don't know that.
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IreneAdler
more binah in her finger than in your whole body
There I disagree. We all learn from God in our personal experiences with Him as well. I've been told something that was just for me, and not for edification of anyone else. Obviously it was not contained in the bible, but it was Him and it was something I needed to know.
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We are all unique and need different areas of building up or encouragment. But the bible is for anyone that is willing to let it talk to us. But no one is above reproof or above what the bible has to offer. Jehovah has offered an opportunity for all, but it is up to the individual to take advantage of that.
In other words to survive the flood you had to be on the ark. It is the same today.
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God is not this vindictive vengeful God of the OT, He is a savior and that is why we are under His saving grace and not the blood of bulls and goats. His wrath is not the wrath of the OT or the lion, it is the wrath of the lamb. Have you ever seen a lamb get angry?
The Apostle Peter explained that "Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water." (I Pet.3:18-20).
The word quicken means life giving, so life was given by god's spirit. Obviously, since those disobedient spirits were from the days of Noah, Jesus preached to the dead. Here is a clear inference that death is NOT the end of the story! I can't leave this passage without commenting on the fact that Jesus went to hell to preach to those languishing there, showing us that there is nowhere too far removed for God to go after his wayward children. If we make our bed in hell, the Psalmist declares, we will find Him there. (Ps. 139:8). The word hell, in most instances in the New Testament should be translated "Hades," meaning only the resting place of the dead, not the everlasting flames of torment that the church says it means.
The Apostle Peter explained that "Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water." (I Pet.3:18-20).
The word quicken means life giving, so life was given by god's spirit. Obviously, since those disobedient spirits were from the days of Noah, Jesus preached to the dead. Here is a clear inference that death is NOT the end of the story! I can't leave this passage without commenting on the fact that Jesus went to hell to preach to those languishing there, showing us that there is nowhere too far removed for God to go after his wayward children. If we make our bed in hell, the Psalmist declares, we will find Him there. (Ps. 139:8). The word hell, in most instances in the New Testament should be translated "Hades," meaning only the resting place of the dead, not the everlasting flames of torment that the church says it means.
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(1 Peter 3:18-20) Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead YOU to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit. 19 In this [state] also he went his way and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noahs days, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.
These spirits were not dead humans they were the spirit creatures that fell with Satan ( angels). These ones were never dead. But these were going to be put in prison for awhile.)
(Psalm 139:8) If I should ascend to heaven, there you would be; And if I should spread out my couch in She′ol, look! you [would be there].
Sheol = is the common grave of mankind, gravedom; not an individual burial place or grave (Heb., qe′ver, Jg 16:31; qevu‧rah′, Ge 35:20), nor an individual tomb (Heb., ga‧dhish′, Job 21:32).
It just means the condition of the dead. they are dead.
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Satan was never an angel; he was always a liar from his beginning. The word angel is a transliteration which simple means messenger, and I will add a bad translation. People when they die are spiritual beings we have already covered this and here it is again. Read the whole verse notice it says person, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit. This totally supports : Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
(1 Peter 3:18-20) Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead YOU to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit. 19 In this [state] also he went his way andpreached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noahs days, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.
(1 Peter 3:18-20) Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead YOU to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit. 19 In this [state] also he went his way andpreached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noahs days, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.
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Matthew 25:41 Then he will say, in turn, to those on his left, Be on YOUR way from me, YOU who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.
Satan was a favored angel of God. He was given the position of ruling the earth. So Satan is the ruler of the world, that is why we see the earth the way it is now. Even Jesus recognized this.
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More bad translations, the letter klleth, you are killing the word of God with your letter of the word.
Here is a new thought for you using Gods Word not my opinion. Notice I also use Gods Word to interpret the verse instead of some long dead (Latin) church school. So who do you believe; Gods Word or man religious tradition?
Matt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divided his sheep from the goats:
A sheep is a mature believe, a sheep is a very loyal to His master and eats only the best of the spiritual grasses. As a boy I notice the farmer would give the sheep the second and third cuttings of grass; full of leaves and substance. Now a cow would eat the first cutting the lesser of the hay crop, made up of stems and little leaf compared to the earlier cuttings.
Of course a goat will eat any carnal garbage as long as it is in front of his nose.
Now I want to go to Matt 25:32 and I note; many are assuming a goat is a non believer, all it is your assumption, look at the Greek; I see a goat as an immature believer (baby goat); who are separated because of their spiritual immaturity.
Many are mature in their little religious box; but are immature spiritually; they have that immature goat nature. What garbage have you been eating to believe that Jesus is a terriorist.
Sheep Separated from Goats
Where on the other hand a goat or the Greek word (eriphos or kid; baby goat) So I see it as God separating his Sheep mature from His immature kids; spiritually speaking)
NT:2056
1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.
If you were a Jew in Jesus day there would be no problem with this parable, you see a Jew knows a goat and a sheep are clean animals.
PIG
Now if you the verses were referred to a pig or unclean animal I would agree with the traditional teaching. A pig would be a great example of the unjust/heathen; but a goat was used all though out the OT as a sacrificial animal so how can it be the unjust? (scrape goat); and why would God burn up a baby goat in everlasting fire; what did the baby goat do?
Actually nothing; the unqualified and unjust and bias translators obvious made a grave error in the word everlasting and should of translated it ages (NT:166 Aionios). The word means ages; limit duration. The has happen a number of times in scripture and can be easily proven by the context of the verse.
Unless of cource you baby goats want to burn forever and ever.
But according to these bias translators God is going to send a baby goat to everlasting fire.
Matt 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angel (messengers)
So many of Gods people are baby goats and all they eat is garbage; in other words damnable heresies or heresies of damnation/condemnations/ all those heresies that condemn people to torture
Here is a new thought for you using Gods Word not my opinion. Notice I also use Gods Word to interpret the verse instead of some long dead (Latin) church school. So who do you believe; Gods Word or man religious tradition?
Matt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divided his sheep from the goats:
A sheep is a mature believe, a sheep is a very loyal to His master and eats only the best of the spiritual grasses. As a boy I notice the farmer would give the sheep the second and third cuttings of grass; full of leaves and substance. Now a cow would eat the first cutting the lesser of the hay crop, made up of stems and little leaf compared to the earlier cuttings.
Of course a goat will eat any carnal garbage as long as it is in front of his nose.
Now I want to go to Matt 25:32 and I note; many are assuming a goat is a non believer, all it is your assumption, look at the Greek; I see a goat as an immature believer (baby goat); who are separated because of their spiritual immaturity.
Many are mature in their little religious box; but are immature spiritually; they have that immature goat nature. What garbage have you been eating to believe that Jesus is a terriorist.
Sheep Separated from Goats
Where on the other hand a goat or the Greek word (eriphos or kid; baby goat) So I see it as God separating his Sheep mature from His immature kids; spiritually speaking)
NT:2056
1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.
If you were a Jew in Jesus day there would be no problem with this parable, you see a Jew knows a goat and a sheep are clean animals.
PIG
Now if you the verses were referred to a pig or unclean animal I would agree with the traditional teaching. A pig would be a great example of the unjust/heathen; but a goat was used all though out the OT as a sacrificial animal so how can it be the unjust? (scrape goat); and why would God burn up a baby goat in everlasting fire; what did the baby goat do?
Actually nothing; the unqualified and unjust and bias translators obvious made a grave error in the word everlasting and should of translated it ages (NT:166 Aionios). The word means ages; limit duration. The has happen a number of times in scripture and can be easily proven by the context of the verse.
Unless of cource you baby goats want to burn forever and ever.
But according to these bias translators God is going to send a baby goat to everlasting fire.
Matt 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angel (messengers)
So many of Gods people are baby goats and all they eat is garbage; in other words damnable heresies or heresies of damnation/condemnations/ all those heresies that condemn people to torture
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I'm not speculating about anything since such speculation would only be another concept. I'm merely pointing out that certain aspects of God which are clearly expressed are also inconceivable. one such concept is the contradiction/coalescence of "is" and "is not" within the trinity. The concept of trinity is clearly expressed. Its nature is not conceivable.
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