This Thread Will End All Debate On The Sabbath Once And For All

[VictorC]

Please do not ignore this question (below in the quoted post).

Also, I noted that you quoted an absolutely bizzare rendition for Hebrews 4, which mentions nothing concerning the sabbath - even the Greek word is different, and the context refers to it as "another day" differentiated from the sabbath the recipients of this epistle already had from 1500 years of their lives under Moses.

It would seem that you turn to strange places to garner support for the sabbath. This alone is evidence that the Bible doesn't support it, don't you think?

This "gospel" message contains a number of contradictions to Scripture, that would prohibit it from inclusion to canon. But turning a blind eye to the problems that it has, there is another approach you can use to determine if your selected quote carries any weight.

Return to your quote's source, and determine when the statement concerning the sabbath was given.
Was this statement made before or after the death of the Testator, Who inaugurated the new covenant with His death?
In other words, was this statement made to the children of Israel during the tenure of the Mosaic covenant, or does the statement carry any impact to the church in the new covenant era?

Answering this question honestly will reveal that this suspect quote does not support the sabbath today.

 

[Hentenza]

i'll do the opposite you prove it wasn't.. all you can offer is various scholars opinions and since that is in MHO the equivalant of a basket of air without the need for a basket I'll humbly state you cannot

Your claim, your burden of proof.

 

[help_the_lord]

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[help_the_lord]

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[VictorC]

nothing concerning the sabbath? lolwut.. it has come to my attention that you are one of those people whose house i should knock the dust off my sandals and depart..

Showing that you can't address simple and direct questions does nothing to support your credibility here. So far you haven't found anything that supports your thesis or the quote you provided.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*
Please do not ignore this question (below in the quoted post).

Also, I noted that you quoted an absolutely bizzare rendition for Hebrews 4, which mentions nothing concerning the sabbath - even the Greek word is different, and the context refers to it as "another day" differentiated from the sabbath the recipients of this epistle already had from 1500 years of their lives under Moses?

Which verse of Hebrew 4 are you referring to in his post.......
I have to admit that is a rather unique word used in verse 9 he quoted

http://www.christianforums.com/t7430788-2/#post53876483

Heb 4:9 So there remains a Sabbath-keeping for the people of Elohim.

Heb 4:9 Consequently then there is left/remaining a sabbatism/sabbatismoV <4520> to the people of the God

Textus Rec.) Hebrews 4:9 ara apoleipetai sabbatismoV tw law tou qeou

4520. sabbatismos sab-bat-is-mos' from a derivative of 4521; a "sabbatism", i.e. (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven):--rest.

 

[Thekla]

Perhaps someone might know which sort of gnosticism this work is aligned with ?

What was their view of Christ, of matter, etc.

 

[Secundulus]

I really must be missing the parts that don't.. it all goes hand and hand with what he said in the other gospels.. in fact alot of the same statements were made in both.. kind of fishy that he would say the exact same thing in about the mustard seed for instance and the weeds and the wheat growing next to each other, and yet one is inspired and one is not.. pretty fishy indeed..

The opening lines reveal it as Gnostic.

These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke and Didymos Judas Thomas recorded.
1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

Discovering secret knowledge was what Gnosticism was all about.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke and Didymos Judas Thomas recorded.
1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

YIKES! I guess I better get started on it!!!

 

[VictorC]

Which verse of Hebrew 4 are you referring to in his post.......
I have to admit that is a rather unique word used in verse 9 he quoted

http://www.christianforums.com/t7430788-2/#post53876483

Heb 4:9 So there remains a Sabbath-keeping for the people of Elohim.

Heb 4:9 Consequently then there is left/remaining a sabbatism/sabbatismoV <4520> to the people of the God

Textus Rec.) Hebrews 4:9 ara apoleipetai sabbatismoV tw law tou qeou

4520. sabbatismos sab-bat-is-mos' from a derivative of 4521; a "sabbatism", i.e. (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven):--rest.

Verse 9 uses the Greek sabbatismos, and not sabbaton that is used to refer to the sabbath. Each word is similar, because of the root meaning of "rest", but Thayers lexicon defines it as a "keeping sabbath", or permanent rest, and not as a "sabbath keeping" that refers to the periodic sabbath made for man, and wasn't God's rest that remained to be attained (from Hebrews 4:1, showing it remained as a promise). Look at the context surrounding Hebrews 4:9:

6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:
“ Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

God's rest never ended since the day "God rested on the seventh day from all His works" (Hebrews 4:4, quoting from Genesis 2:2). This is the rest we have entered into, God's permanent rest and permanent cessation of our works under the former covenant's requirements. That was the "another day" that remained to be attained.

 

[Christos Anesti]

I think I'm going to start another thread about E White and the Albigensians / Cathars. I wonder if the SDA has changed it's views on this sect ? We don't have many of their writtings but I've read at least two that we do have (in a book called "The Gnostic Bible" ) and I find it odd that she would call them defenders of the true Christian faith.

This is a good book that discusses the Cathars btw:
The Other God: Dualist Religions from Antiquity to the Cathar Heresy

 

[kenblaster5000]

I stumbled across the gospel of Thomas earlier today in what I believe to be divine intervention.. as I have been begreived over people arguing about the Sabbath lately.. The Gospel of Thomas is respected as having divine authorship however was not included into the NT cannon because they chose to only include 4 versions.. The gospel of Thomas if you are not familiar is a collection of Jesus's sayings.. this being the one that can finally put an end to this discussion once and for all.

27 "If you do not fast from the world, you will not find the (Father's) domain. If you do not observe the sabbath as a sabbath you will not see the Father."

If you wish to read the entirety of the gospel you can find it right here.

FRONTLINE: from jesus to christ: primary sources: gospel of thomas | PBS

If you keep arguing over the sabbath, you may never enter the rest of the Lord.

 

[help_the_lord]

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[Dark_Lite]

i'll do the opposite you prove it wasn't.. all you can offer is various scholars opinions and since that is in MHO the equivalant of a basket of air without the need for a basket I'll humbly state you cannot

Well now that we've established that the opinions of those who know what they're talking about are meaningless, then I don't think this is going to get very far.

 

[Secundulus]

YIKES! I guess I better get started on it!!!

You will only succeed if you are one of the pneumatikos.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Verse 9 uses the Greek sabbatismos, and not sabbaton that is used to refer to the sabbath. Each word is similar, because of the root meaning of "rest", but Thayers lexicon defines it as a "keeping sabbath", or permanent rest, and not as a "sabbath keeping" that refers to the periodic sabbath made for man, and wasn't God's rest that remained to be attained (from Hebrews 4:1, showing it remained as a promise). Look at the context surrounding Hebrews 4:9:

6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, &#8220;Today,&#8221; after such a long time, as it has been said:
&#8220; Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.&#8221;
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

God's rest never ended since the day "God rested on the seventh day from all His works" (Hebrews 4:4, quoting from Genesis 2:2). This is the rest we have entered into, God's permanent rest and permanent cessation of our works under the former covenant's requirements. That was the "another day" that remained to be attained.

Ahhh......Thank you and I agree and I think the Jews would too IF they read the NT/NC

Hebrews 4:3 For we are entering into the Rest, the ones-believing. According to as He declared, 'As I have sware in My wrath, if they shall be entering into the Rest of Me' and-those the works from down-casting of world being become.
[Psalm 95:11]

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of the tormenting of them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.
And not they are having Rest day and night [Matt 11:29/Hebrew 4:3]

 

[help_the_lord]

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[VictorC]

sure gnosticism promotes secret knowledge but i think what it was saying is Jesus knew that this gospel was not going to be in the cannon once finished as he knows everything else of the future.. and that anyone who really wanted to pour into biblical research wouldn't necessarily stop in the NT cannon.. therefore one seeking the truth with their whole heart would inevidaby find this and take it to heart

But the first step to the dark side is to toss away the Bible - right?

 

[kenblaster5000]

In Jude, in my KJV, at the front of the book it says:

Probably another brother of Jesus, Jude addressed again the destructive heresy of Gnosticism which seemed to have gained considerable momentum towards the end of the first century. Similar in some points to 2 Peter, Jude also refers twice to non-Biblical books. (9 and 14)

 

[help_the_lord]

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