Atheist here (Ask me anything)

[Dragons87]

I know from my own experience that it's more difficult to say what's on your mind when you're dealing with your parents and family members. I've already gone the route of letting my parents know my stance on religion and it didn't end well. Luckily, my relationship with my parents has always been strong enough to withstand a disagreement like that and as long as we're not talking about religion, we can still happily spend time together. It was just that initial "bump" that caused some heartache. Now my parents tell me they're praying for me, I tell them thanks, and that's the end of it. But not everybody has it so easy.

I am trying to pointing out that in many things in life we don't have neat, scientific little boxes to help us deal with, that having scientific truths doesn't necessarily gear us up from life. That requires another sort of intelligence, or wisdom, under which religion falls.

Don't know if that makes sense. Hehe.

At the end of the day, what I suppose I'm trying to say is: approaching religion with the way to approach science will fail. It's the same way as in approaching as one's parents with "truth and nothing but the truth" will wreck relations.

Don't know if that makes sense. I rest my case.

 

[nicknack28]

First, what I mean is judgment is ultimately up to God, who is sovereign. I am to be judged as much as everyone else, so what kind of right do I have to pronounce judgment on any other person? That's what I'm getting at.

Jesus essentially tells Peter to quit worrying about John (the beloved disciple) and worry about himself. That is my conclusion as well. I simply am unable to proclaim whether anyone else is saved or not, and my opinion, if I do make one, will be inaccurate and misleading. So I'd rather not answer.

I can understand and respect this. This sort of leads us to a dead end in discussion for I don't have any tangents I've the particular urge to jump on. If you've any then by all means throw 'em out there. The line of questioning in this thread is sort of supposed to run the opposite direction after all.

I do also appreciate your comments about citing scripture and the quote I took slight issue with. Your reasons for both are understandable.

 

[Dragons87]

I can understand and respect this. This sort of leads us to a dead end in discussion for I don't have any tangents I've the particular urge to jump on. If you've any then by all means throw 'em out there. The line of questioning in this thread is sort of supposed to run the opposite direction after all.

I do also appreciate your comments about citing scripture and the quote I took slight issue with. Your reasons for both are understandable.

I understand. I haven't got any thing off the top of my head to ask right now, so I'll leave it for now. Though I'm sure that our paths will meet again!

 

[Skeptic90]

Please forgive me for being bold, but judging solely by your posts (which probably makes my judgment unfair), you're not someone who minces words when it comes to proclaiming your version of the truth. What's stopping you now?

This is the same question I ask know. What stops me now, from walking from this very door and telling my dad who is probably no farther than 10 feet away from me. I believe its the same reason I feared leaving my faith. Fear of the consequences. Being an atheist isn't easy. You are prone to stigmatism, just because your beliefs are just a bit different. You get looked like you have some sort of disease, and people should keep away from you. Many parents tell their children to never marry an atheist, but a Christian under any circumstances.

I am living two lives. I just don't feel its your place to argue with them. Also if I tell them, I do not think they will understand. They had no previous education. My father just studied to the 2nd grade, and my mom, until fifth. They were both brought up in strictly religious families. My mom, she was raised away from civilization most of her life. When she did come to town, my grandma literally put a lock on the door, and had my mom and her older sister take care of the other 6 children. My dad was nearly shot by my grandpa for simply asking for my mom on a date. Anyways, they have nearly no education, just the bare nessecities to go through life. I am currently the only member in my family, including aunts and uncles and so on, who is at a university. So if I talk science, or reason or logic, there is no chance for them to understand. All they know is the bible, and that is life.

What I am doing now is introducing my dad on the fundumentals of science and history. Once he has the fundumentals, maybe he will understand more than if I just told them.


So for truth, it must wait just a little bit longer. I hate to tell them that probably what they believe is just man made like then next fairy tale. Especially to my dad, I am all he's got. I am the only one he trusts in, so telling him, I don't know. So I am still thinking about when the truth should be revealved, or if ever.

 

[Dragons87]

This is the same question I ask know. What stops me now, from walking from this very door and telling my dad who is probably no farther than 10 feet away from me. I believe its the same reason I feared leaving my faith. Fear of the consequences. Being an atheist isn't easy. You are prone to stigmatism, just because your beliefs are just a bit different. You get looked like you have some sort of disease, and people should keep away from you. Many parents tell their children to never marry an atheist, but a Christian under any circumstances.

I am living two lives. I just don't feel its your place to argue with them. Also if I tell them, I do not think they will understand. They had no previous education. My father just studied to the 2nd grade, and my mom, until fifth. They were both brought up in strictly religious families. My mom, she was raised away from civilization most of her life. When she did come to town, my grandma literally put a lock on the door, and had my mom and her older sister take care of the other 6 children. My dad was nearly shot by my grandpa for simply asking for my mom on a date. Anyways, they have nearly no education, just the bare nessecities to go through life. I am currently the only member in my family, including aunts and uncles and so on, who is at a university. So if I talk science, or reason or logic, there is no chance for them to understand. All they know is the bible, and that is life.

What I am doing now is introducing my dad on the fundumentals of science and history. Once he has the fundumentals, maybe he will understand more than if I just told them.


So for truth, it must wait just a little bit longer. I hate to tell them that probably what they believe is just man made like then next fairy tale. Especially to my dad, I am all he's got. I am the only one he trusts in, so telling him, I don't know. So I am still thinking about when the truth should be revealved, or if ever.

I understand your sentiment, sir, for I too had a deep, dark and terrible secret that I hid from my Christian family: my homosexuality. It was only when I left home for university that I eventually accepted my identity and told them. Thankfully they have been most understanding and supportive. Although I suspect your issue is very different from mine.

Please forgive me for being slightly impersonal in suggesting that your case can demonstrate that all the scientific knowledge that one may have will not aid them in all aspects of life. At that point, religion, among other philosophies, can step in to help guide one's path. Religion is particularly useful because it offers a whole package and pertains to one's everyday life.

In my case, my homosexuality was a fact. Knowing that fact did not help me to be honest with my family. But it was my religious view, and my faith in my family's religious view, that gave me the courage to come out to them, so that our family is made whole, and nothing is hidden between its members (family's a big thing; I have a Chinese background).

I pass my no judgment on whether you should or should not tell your parents; I merely make the impersonal case that science and facts cannot give us all the answers to all the problems we face and the questions we pose.

 

[Skeptic90]

I understand your sentiment, sir, for I too had a deep, dark and terrible secret that I hid from my Christian family: my homosexuality. It was only when I left home for university that I eventually accepted my identity and told them. Thankfully they have been most understanding and supportive. Although I suspect your issue is very different from mine.

Please forgive me for being slightly impersonal in suggesting that your case can demonstrate that all the scientific knowledge that one may have will not aid them in all aspects of life. At that point, religion, among other philosophies, can step in to help guide one's path. Religion is particularly useful because it offers a whole package and pertains to one's everyday life.

In my case, my homosexuality was a fact. Knowing that fact did not help me to be honest with my family. But it was my religious view, and my faith in my family's religious view, that gave me the courage to come out to them, so that our family is made whole, and nothing is hidden between its members (family's a big thing; I have a Chinese background).

I pass my no judgment on whether you should or should not tell your parents; I merely make the impersonal case that science and facts cannot give us all the answers to all the problems we face and the questions we pose.

Well like I said before, its simply a personal choice weather to stand by faith or reason. I stand closer to reason than faith. I think the reason able choice is simply to not say anything. I do agree its mostly an emotional reason, but is because its my family. Sometimes even the most logical person must know when they need to when to sustain from the truth, for the greater good. This is what most philosophers have struggled with. How to make choices in happiness. Kant always said to do what brings the most happiness to the most people, to the point it doesn't leave the worst off, to a point lower than the accepted standard of unhappiness. So I think my unhappiness is lower than what it will cause my parents, so I remain silent, unless otherwise.

 

[nicknack28]

Please forgive me for being slightly impersonal in suggesting that your case can demonstrate that all the scientific knowledge that one may have will not aid them in all aspects of life. At that point, religion, among other philosophies, can step in to help guide one's path. Religion is particularly useful because it offers a whole package and pertains to one's everyday life.

Forgive me for my intrusion but I would like to make a comment on this. I do not see how anyone could conclude that science somehow tries to aid people in life in the same way you propose religion does. You compare science and religion as if religion is successful where science fails, as if both aim to be a personal aid/guide in life but science can only take you so far. Isn't science the pursuit of knowledge, not the pursuit of comfort? If religion's purpose is as implied -- to be a personal aid/guide in life -- don't science and religion have two completely different purposes? At least to me science cannot fail at something it doesn't attempt.

 

[Skeptic90]

That is why philosophy exists, to deal with things that can't really be measured, like love, happiness, and morality. You do not need god to make this decisions, all you need is a bit of critical thinking.

 

[98cwitr]

I was pretty much in the same boat as the OP. It took me a really long time to start questioning these things. I read your conversion story and I'm a little confused. You speak about seeing coincidences and eventually chalking it up to fate, but then you make a giant leap from fate to an unseen person controlling things in your life. For someone who began their skepticism very early in their life, that seems like a really big stretch. Forgive me if I don't understand what you've actually said, but that's how I read it. I can't identify with it because I don't believe in fate and I don't believe things happen for a reason. I'm more inclined to view life as chaos...with boundaries.

Honestly, from fate to God is was really the easiest part. If you believe in fate, how did fate come to be, how is it controlled and determined. It is a matter of identifying intelligent design. Could it be aliens? A non-Christian god(s)? The possibility exists...but that possibility to me is the same of any god existing to an atheist.

I'm not going to as close minded and indoctrinated to say that I know for a 100% fact that God exists, Jesus Christ is the Son of God...well...you know the story, but what I am saying is that I believe all these to be correct with all my being. I can continue to ask questions like "What plane of consciousness do I actually exist upon?" But it really gets me no where, pondering on such things wastes my time. I will never have an answer to things of such nature in my earthly life.

That is why philosophy exists, to deal with things that can't really be measured, like love, happiness, and morality. You do not need god to make this decisions, all you need is a bit of critical thinking.

Never said I needed God in order to make decisions, I want God to be involved in the process

 

[Skeptic90]

Honestly, from fate to God is was really the easiest part. If you believe in fate, how did fate come to be, how is it controlled and determined. It is a matter of identifying intelligent design. Could it be aliens? A non-Christian god(s)? The possibility exists...but that possibility to me is the same of any god existing to an atheist.

Now I ask, why subscribe to the judeo-christian god?

I'm not going to as close minded and indoctrinated to say that I know for a 100% fact that God exists, Jesus Christ is the Son of God...well...you know the story, but what I am saying is that I believe all these to be correct with all my being. I can continue to ask questions like "What plane of consciousness do I actually exist upon?" But it really gets me no where, pondering on such things wastes my time. I will never have an answer to things of such nature in my earthly life.

Well no one has all the answers, but why, I don't want to say give up, but say that the judeo-christian god is truly real, if in reality, no one knows?

Never said I needed God in order to make decisions, I want God to be involved in the process

Why do you want god? Also why not any other god? If you tried other gods, why the Christian one?
Or is it simply for the reason that you need god, and need to place your faith somewhere?

 

[bricklayer]

32yrs ago a bullet passed by my ear so close that I heard it before I heard the report from the weapon.

At once I was horrified and gratified.
Horrified because THAT could have been me, and gratified that it wasn't.

That's the same feeling I get now when I encounter a fool in his folly.

 

[Dragons87]

Well like I said before, its simply a personal choice weather to stand by faith or reason. I stand closer to reason than faith. I think the reason able choice is simply to not say anything. I do agree its mostly an emotional reason, but is because its my family. Sometimes even the most logical person must know when they need to when to sustain from the truth, for the greater good. This is what most philosophers have struggled with. How to make choices in happiness. Kant always said to do what brings the most happiness to the most people, to the point it doesn't leave the worst off, to a point lower than the accepted standard of unhappiness. So I think my unhappiness is lower than what it will cause my parents, so I remain silent, unless otherwise.

Yes. It is personal choice, after all. You and I are not very different in circumstance, perhaps. You have chosen a Kantian way of dealing with it, I with a Christian way.

Forgive me for my intrusion but I would like to make a comment on this. I do not see how anyone could conclude that science somehow tries to aid people in life in the same way you propose religion does. You compare science and religion as if religion is successful where science fails, as if both aim to be a personal aid/guide in life but science can only take you so far. Isn't science the pursuit of knowledge, not the pursuit of comfort? If religion's purpose is as implied -- to be a personal aid/guide in life -- don't science and religion have two completely different purposes? At least to me science cannot fail at something it doesn't attempt.

Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. Sorry if I was unclear on the matter. What I mean is because we're humans, we cannot stop at the pursuit of knowledge, but must pursue comfort too. Science and religion deal with the two separately.

I know you aren't one of them, but there are atheists who discredit religion because religion fails at something it doesn't attempt.

See? Our paths meet again!

That is why philosophy exists, to deal with things that can't really be measured, like love, happiness, and morality. You do not need god to make this decisions, all you need is a bit of critical thinking.

Philosophy is Man's way of dealing with things. Religion is trying to look for God's way of dealing with things.

True. You don't need God to make decisions, but I believe that if you want to make a good decision that is fit for purpose, you should ask your Maker.

I understand that you disagree. I am merely proposing my viewpoint.

 

[Skeptic90]

32yrs ago a bullet passed by my ear so close that I heard it before I heard the report from the weapon.

At once I was horrified and gratified.
Horrified because THAT could have been me, and gratified that it wasn't.

That's the same feeling I get now when I encounter a fool in his folly.

What are your thoughts on death?

Also I will ask the same question, I was asked in my philosophy/morality class that I would like to hear everyones elses responses as well:

If an angel came to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: 'This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more, nothing changing, nothing new. The exact same life over and over again for an eternity."

How would you respond to this deal?

 

[Skeptic90]

Yes. It is personal choice, after all. You and I are not very different in circumstance, perhaps. You have chosen a Kantian way of dealing with it, I with a Christian way.



Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. Sorry if I was unclear on the matter. What I mean is because we're humans, we cannot stop at the pursuit of knowledge, but must pursue comfort too. Science and religion deal with the two separately.

I know you aren't one of them, but there are atheists who discredit religion because religion fails at something it doesn't attempt.

See? Our paths meet again!



Philosophy is Man's way of dealing with things. Religion is trying to look for God's way of dealing with things.

True. You don't need God to make decisions, but I believe that if you want to make a good decision that is fit for purpose, you should ask your Maker.

I understand that you disagree. I am merely proposing my viewpoint.

This is what we all doing. A good transfer of opinions and ideas in order to expand our knowledge about man, or god.

 

[woundedsoldier]

Ok Skeptic, I have a new question. If the world evolved from evolution why are there no missing links at the present?

 

[Skeptic90]

Ok Skeptic, I have a new question. If the world evolved from evolution why are there no missing links at the present?

Like today? Living 'missing links'? if so, well then because we probably killed them off, or became extinct from natural occurance like disease or a virus, which left us, the 'better species' to survive.

If you actually meant as in why there isn't any missing links at all. Well actually it depends what you consider 'missing'. Actually there are no missing links. We have enough fossils to suggest a human evolution. Now if you consider missing like comparing the missing link between a species of a bird and another bird, which are virtually insignificant, then I say thats a bit unnecessary. Even if lets say just human evolution is not true, that doesn't debunk evolution at all. You still have to present evidence against plant, insect, verterbre, whale, dog, cat, mouse, and so on and so on. Remember evolution is simply an EXPLANATION, or theory, not a fact. Theories are composed of facts. So lets say there is a missing link, that doesn't debunk evolution at all, we still need to explain all the other transitional fossils, or links, that already exist. Its like having flour, eggs, milk, butter, and a pan, but no stove. We can give an explanation saying probably these ingredients are for cooking. Then you say there is no stove, so it disproves the idea. May be the case, but highly unlikely. From what we have now, we have a good idea, that the process still stands, with or without a link. Again, there is no missing link. Also, scientists recently have witnessed evolution. Heres a good video explaing other misconceptions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vss1VKN2rf8

any questions or comments?

 

[woundedsoldier]

Yes. I have a comment. I watched about 30 seconds of that video and it was explaining evolution does not have to do with the cosmose but with origin of the species. Is that how I understand it? I don't need to watch the whole thing because I don't have a clean conscience about doing that. Maybe you can explain to me the main points. I guess I would like to know more about what your theories are, or rather hypothise, of how we humans got here in the first place. Are you telling me the "big bang" theory (or rather hypothesis) is not part of evolution? Also, are you telling me that you have a better theory of how we got here than the scientist who dreamed it up and hold to it BY FAITH? (Like I said, main stream science is a religion) and if you want to know why I believe main stream science is a religion I can tell you. Ask me anything How can you explain something coming from nothing, except that a higher being made it? I admit these are issues that are out of human understanding. But God was gracious and gave us the bible by which we could understand it better. It is funny to me how many people say God has not shown enough of himself for people to believe in him, and yet He has given us His infaliable word. That is why we Christians are trying to tell you that we accept it by faith, but a REASONED faith.

 

[brinny]

What are your thoughts on death?

Also I will ask the same question, I was asked in my philosophy/morality class that I would like to hear everyones elses responses as well:

If an angel came to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: 'This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more, nothing changing, nothing new. The exact same life over and over again for an eternity."

How would you respond to this deal?

that sounds like hell.

 

[Skeptic90]

Yes. I have a comment. I watched about 30 seconds of that video and it was explaining evolution does not have to do with the cosmose but with origin of the species. Is that how I understand it? I don't need to watch the whole thing because I don't have a clean conscience about doing that. Maybe you can explain to me the main points. I guess I would like to know more about what your theories are, or rather hypothise, of how we humans got here in the first place. Are you telling me the "big bang" theory (or rather hypothesis) is not part of evolution? Also, are you telling me that you have a better theory of how we got here than the scientist who dreamed it up and hold to it BY FAITH? (Like I said, main stream science is a religion) and if you want to know why I believe main stream science is a religion I can tell you. Ask me anything How can you explain something coming from nothing, except that a higher being made it? I admit these are issues that are out of human understanding. But God was gracious and gave us the bible by which we could understand it better. It is funny to me how many people say God has not shown enough of himself for people to believe in him, and yet He has given us His infaliable word. That is why we Christians are trying to tell you that we accept it by faith, but a REASONED faith.

No the origin of species is the name of the book that proposed the idea, but ity doesn't have to do with the cosmos or the start of life. Again, no one knows the start. We have no direct evidence for the start of the universe, or life. If you watched the whole video, it would have explained this point very well. Well it depends what you consider better, but scientifically speaking, yes it is more logical and 'better'. This wasn't dream up, it was hypothesised from facts, what we currently know. Sure it requires some 'faith', all ideas do. The main difference is evidence. Creationism has no evidence, while a biogenesis has some. Evolution in the other hand has more than enough evidence to say its 'true'.

If you watched the video, scientists do not believe that we came from nothing. The reality is that no one knows. Saying that a higher being said it is as good as saying it came from nothing, which in my opinion, neither stands. No scientist says that, and no one has evidece for god.

Yes, big bang is not part of evolution, it is completely different.

What makes you believe that the bible is not man made? And not the infallible word of man?

What evidence do you have to present if its 'reasoned' faith?

 

[Skeptic90]

that sounds like hell.

If you deny the offer, it means that you haven't lived a fulfilling and happy life. You haven't done enough, or done enough in this life time to be happy. If you accept the deal, it simply means that you are happy with the life you had if you died today.

So for all who answered that question with denial, you must make revisions in your life, and see what can you do to improve your life. The only thing that matters is that you live a happy and good life. What is the meaning of your life? and have you lived a meaningful life?