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Ask a physicist anything. (2)

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Wiccan_Child

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Why are Einstein's ideas called "theories" and Newton's ideas called "laws"? If they're all supported by math, they should each be either absolutely true or not, right?
The difference is in the three hundred years between when they lived. It's also in the vagueness of the question. Just what are you calling a 'Law'? Newton's three laws (which is a fair guess as to your question, but by no means the only one) are, in modern parlance, 'conjecture'. Well-established conjecture, but conjecture nonetheless. They're posits that are assumed true by certain archaic physicists, but by no means all physicists (yours truly being a case in point).
 
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pgp_protector

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Chesterton

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What's: that?

You have to refer backwards to each previous verse. Each occurrence of "that" in the chorus refers back to a verb or verb phrase in the preceding verse:

1. (I won't) forget
2. (I won't) forget
3. (I won't) do it better (than I did with you)
4. (I won't) stop dreaming (of you)
5. (I won't) move on (from you)
6. (I won't) be screwing around (on you)

Or maybe he means he'd do anything for love except retire from the music biz. Or give up the last slice of pizza. :p
 
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Clarphimous

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The difference is in the three hundred years between when they lived. It's also in the vagueness of the question. Just what are you calling a 'Law'? Newton's three laws (which is a fair guess as to your question, but by no means the only one) are, in modern parlance, 'conjecture'. Well-established conjecture, but conjecture nonetheless. They're posits that are assumed true by certain archaic physicists, but by no means all physicists (yours truly being a case in point).

My introductory chemistry textbook went over this, but I don't have it with me right now.

A law is a summary of many observations under a general set of conditions which has been thoroughly tested, whereas a theory is a model that explains those observations, and usually makes further predictions (so the explanation can be verified). So a scientific theory is actually more useful than a scientific law.

Newton's law of universal gravitation gives you an equation that lets you calculate the gravitational force between two point masses. There's no explanation given. You can't tell why this attraction occurs with this law.

On the other hand, Einstein's theory of general relativity explains gravity as a result of the curvature of space-time, as well as letting you calculate gravitational forces for more extreme situations. It also makes many unintuitive predictions, which you may be aware of.
 
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Clarphimous

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How do you define straight if space time is curved where you are?

I happened to see this while looking at the Wiki article for general relativity.

Geodesic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In mathematics, a geodesic (pronounced /ˌdʒiː.ɵˈdiːzɨk, ˌdʒiː.ɵˈdɛsɨk/ JEE-o-DEE-zik, JEE-o-DES-ik) is a generalization of the notion of a "straight line" to "curved spaces". In the presence of a metric, geodesics are defined to be (locally) the shortest path between points on the space. In the presence of an affine connection, geodesics are defined to be curves whose tangent vectors remain parallel if they are transported along it.​
 
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Wiccan_Child

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My introductory chemistry textbook went over this, but I don't have it with me right now.

A law is a summary of many observations under a general set of conditions which has been thoroughly tested, whereas a theory is a model that explains those observations, and usually makes further predictions (so the explanation can be verified). So a scientific theory is actually more useful than a scientific law.
So the law is the prediction, and the theory explains the law. An interesting way of looking at it.

Newton's law of universal gravitation gives you an equation that lets you calculate the gravitational force between two point masses. There's no explanation given. You can't tell why this attraction occurs with this law.

On the other hand, Einstein's theory of general relativity explains gravity as a result of the curvature of space-time, as well as letting you calculate gravitational forces for more extreme situations.
I'm not sure there's such a difference between Newtonian and Einsteinian gravitation. Einstein may have attributed to the curvature of spacetime, but the problem still exists: why does mass bend spacetime? In that regard, Newton's 'laws' are as much of an explanation as Einstein's.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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I happened to see this while looking at the Wiki article for general relativity.

Geodesic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In mathematics, a geodesic (pronounced /ˌdʒiː.ɵˈdiːzɨk, ˌdʒiː.ɵˈdɛsɨk/ JEE-o-DEE-zik, JEE-o-DES-ik) is a generalization of the notion of a "straight line" to "curved spaces". In the presence of a metric, geodesics are defined to be (locally) the shortest path between points on the space. In the presence of an affine connection, geodesics are defined to be curves whose tangent vectors remain parallel if they are transported along it.​
Geodesics do some peculiar things. You can make a triangle on a sphere with three right angles. All three lines are 'straight', inasmuch as 'straight' can be defined on curvilinear space.
 
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Clarphimous

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So the law is the prediction, and the theory explains the law. An interesting way of looking at it.

I'm not sure there's such a difference between Newtonian and Einsteinian gravitation. Einstein may have attributed to the curvature of spacetime, but the problem still exists: why does mass bend spacetime? In that regard, Newton's 'laws' are as much of an explanation as Einstein's.

Hmm... that's a good point. I still do think that theories involve explanations, whereas laws are just statements or equations... perhaps there's a theory or theories that were developed based on Newton's law of universal gravitation, and laws that are behind general relativity.

Albert Einstein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The theory of general relativity has two fundamental laws – the Einstein equations which describe how space curves, and the geodesic equation which describes how particles move.​

This paragraph calls the equations "laws," anyway. Perhaps they haven't been elevated to the status of laws, though.

In the case of general relativity, the theory was developed before the Einstein field equations were found... I think. I'm not sure what it specifically means by geodesic equations. Anyway, the theory builds upon the laws/equations, explaining their consequences.

A theory based on Newton's law of gravitation might then be explanations of its consequences, such as how it explains the motion of the planets... I'm just kind of guessing here, though.

Still, in a way, there is a difference between the two in terms of how gravity is explained. Newton's law of gravity requires a force, and the particle that transmits this force was not known at the time -- they didn't have a clue (we have some theories about what it might be, now). But with general relativity, there is no force required to transmit gravity, and therefore no hypothetical particle. It's true that there really isn't an explanation for *why* mass/energy/momentum bends space-time in general relativity, but we do have equations that describe how it happens.

Whenever we do find an answer to "why" something happens in physics, you often end up on even more questions... for example, in trying to understand the properties of protons and neutrons, you find out that they are made up of up and down quarks, which have certain properties that explain it (spin, mass, strong and weak nuclear forces). But then you can what quarks are made of, or why they can convert from one type to another, and ask why they have those certain properties.

There's a phrase that describes this process, but I don't remember what it is.

So, to summarize... yeah, I'm not terribly sure, myself. The Wiki article on Newton's law of gravitation flip-flops between calling it a law and a theory. I think the law would tend to be without all the extra detail explaining its consequences, though.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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So today is the Anointed Savior, Jesus Christ', birthday, right? :D
Actually, since the shepherds were still tending their flock, Jesus would've been born in the Summer or Autumn sometime.
 
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Chesterton

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Actually, since the shepherds were still tending their flock, Jesus would've been born in the Summer or Autumn sometime.

sheep_in_snow.jpg
 
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