Evolution is a Fact

[AV1611VET]

Please don't get me wrong, it's totally your right to believe this, but I don't understand it ...

I can see why:

Sorry, in my understanding you're only making things worse: so Jesus had enough of his hard life on earth and decided himself to go home to his daddy?!

 

[gipsy]

I can see why:

yes:

He submitted His Spirit up to His Father when He chose --- not when man chose

I was only putting your words into an everyday phrase ...

[edit]
I'll stop questioning and answering now, as I understand this is a question of (christian) faith and not logic or evolution, but I was honestly curious about this ...
[/edit]

[edit_2]If someone is willing to explain my question in detail, I'm more than open for P.M.s, but I understand it doesn't belong under this topic.
[/edit_2]

 

[pgp_protector]

That would be Jesus.

And He can throw some big stones.

And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

 

[Split Rock]

Hi Ursie

You won't accept the evidence of those who are educated in the field either. You like to sound all high and mighty about education and how no one who is a creationist is educated. Excuse me, but that is so much rubbish. There are plenty of PhD's in the field on the websites previously mentioned as well as others. But you won't listen to them because you don't like what they have to say.

A few facts for you. The theory of evolution is the only scientific theory that explains the diversity and distribution of life on earth. It is the foundation of modern biological science and is not disputed by any but a small minority of scientists. Very few of those scientists have an expertise in biology. Those who dispute the theory of evolution do so for religious reasons, just like you do.

Evolution is as much a "fact" as gravity or electromagnetism. Although we do not technically "prove" things in science (proofs are what mathematicians do) it has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt. That is the consensus of the scientific community. I am happy to entertain any valid critique of the theory of evolution, but frankly I have yet to see one. Neither Creation Scientists nor Intelligent design advocates (with PhDs or without) have come up with either a falsification of teh theory of evolution, nor an alternative scientific theory that explains the diversity and distribution of life adequately.

You seem to believe that if the majority believes something then it must be true. If that is the case, then slavery should never have been outlawed, Hitler's Nazi Germany was a great idea and many more things are perfectly great ideas because everyone agrees. Back in the day, the majority believed in Creation.

The theory of evolution was accepted by the scientific community only after much trial and discussion. It has stood the test of time and has never been falsified, even after a challenge from early geneticists and after the determination of the genetic material and how it functions. This is not about the beliefs of the majority. It is about the consensus of the scientific community who study nature and about what scientists actually use in their day to day research. That is what should be taught in the classroom. Not religious dogma.

 

[Loudmouth]

You make heavy assumptions. So what, no one who did not grow up believing in creation would ever become a creationist later in life? Come on, be realistic. People's philosophies change with time quite often. Who knows, next week you might become a creationist yourself! (horror of horrors!)

Can you tell us what evidence would ever lead anyone to conclude that species were poofed into being 6,000 years ago, along with the rest of the Universe, without first reading the Bible? Surely if creationism is true then the evidence independent of the Bible will point that way.

I believe there are a thousand loophole in your so called 'fact' of evolution but none of you will admit that there are any.

How are we supposed to admit to it if you won't tell us what the loopholes are?

What if I told you that I have evidence that the theory of relativity is all wrong, but I won't present it because you will call me a poopy face. Would you really think I was holding back evidence that could lead to a Nobel Prize just because I am afraid of someone calling me a name on an internet forum? Really?

So imagine how creationists look to us. They claim to have this evidence which will overthrow a theory 150 years in the making. If true, the person who actually presents this evidence will probably be rushed to the front of the line for a Nobel Prize. But they don't present this evidence because we are mean. How are we supposed to take you guys seriously?

How are we supposed to take you seriously when you don't even understand the very theories you claim are wrong?

How are we supposed to take you seriously when you don't even understand the difference between fact and theory within science, much less the scientific method?

I will use the words of Wolfgang Pauli to describe creationism. "It isn't even wrong." When you understand what that means perhaps you will understand our frustration.

If you don't like it, take it up with Scripture, I am not the Author, simply repeating what is in Scripture. There is a great deal more in Scripture about this topic, but I will not share it unless someone asks honestly for me to supply it. You don't have to accept this as truth, but that doesn't change the fact that it is.

You complain about theories being taught as fact, but yet feel no qualms about calling religious faith a fact. Are you starting to understand our frustration?

 

[Loudmouth]

The theory of evolution was accepted by the scientific community only after much trial and discussion. It has stood the test of time and has never been falsified, even after a challenge from early geneticists and after the determination of the genetic material and how it functions.

Ernst Mayr wrote about this quite elegantly:

"By the end of the 1940s the work of the evolutionists was considered to be largely completed, as indicated by the robustness of the Evolutionary Synthesis. But in the ensuing decades, all sorts of things happened that might have had a major impact on the Darwinian paradigm. First came Avery's demonstration that nucleic acids and not proteins are the genetic material. Then in 1953, the discovery of the double helix by Watson and Crick increased the analytical capacity of the geneticists by at least an order of magnitude. Unexpectedly, however, none of these molecular findings necessitated a revision of the Darwinian paradigm--nor did the even more drastic genomic revolution that has permitted the analysis of genes down to the last base pair."--Ernst Mayr, "[SIZE=-1]HAPPY BIRTHDAY:[/SIZE] 80 Years of Watching the Evolutionary Scenery"

HAPPY BIRTHDAY: 80 Years of Watching the Evolutionary Scenery -- Mayr 305 (5680): 46 -- Science

The essay is a short read. I highly recommend it.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Can you tell us what evidence would ever lead anyone to conclude that species were poofed into being 6,000 years ago, along with the rest of the Universe, without first reading the Bible? Surely if creationism is true then the evidence independent of the Bible will point that way.



How are we supposed to admit to it if you won't tell us what the loopholes are?

What if I told you that I have evidence that the theory of relativity is all wrong, but I won't present it because you will call me a poopy face. Would you really think I was holding back evidence that could lead to a Nobel Prize just because I am afraid of someone calling me a name on an internet forum? Really?

So imagine how creationists look to us. They claim to have this evidence which will overthrow a theory 150 years in the making. If true, the person who actually presents this evidence will probably be rushed to the front of the line for a Nobel Prize. But they don't present this evidence because we are mean. How are we supposed to take you guys seriously?

How are we supposed to take you seriously when you don't even understand the very theories you claim are wrong?

How are we supposed to take you seriously when you don't even understand the difference between fact and theory within science, much less the scientific method?

I will use the words of Wolfgang Pauli to describe creationism. "It isn't even wrong." When you understand what that means perhaps you will understand our frustration.



You complain about theories being taught as fact, but yet feel no qualms about calling religious faith a fact. Are you starting to understand our frustration?

My sentiments precisely.

 

[nChrist]

It's long past time for a reminder: the theory of evolution is just a theory - nothing more. Some are pretty loose in the use of the word "fact" and "science". Most of the so-called evidence for the theory of evolution has been debunked and thrown out.

So, it's time for another reality check. The theory of evolution is hanging by a thread. It's further away from facts than ever. Guesswork and vivid imaginations are the mainstay of the theory of evolution, but the die-hards won't give up on it yet because of losing face. It would also mean the loss of great amounts of funding that could be used on real science.

So, after all these years, we have what's left of what hasn't been debunked yet, and they call it the theory of evolution. REMEMBER: THEORY NOT FACT.


In the mean time, God's Account of Creation in Genesis stand stands and makes much more sense. Only the Creator can tell you the origin of man and the universe. Most obviously, man can't comprehend His actions, nor can man replicate them. In all of these thousands of years, the real facts that man learns were established and put in place by God.

Here's the absolute Truth that will stand forever:

Genesis 1:1-31 KJV In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. 6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. 9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.



Good News! -- The Holy Bible is the WORD OF GOD! -- God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit - The Creator Of All Things! -- "GOD'S GRACE" and "OUR WORKS" -- Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1623 to 1863 ) -- Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1961 to 2001 ) -- JESUS CHRIST - VERY GOD - LORD - SAVIOUR - MESSIAH - KING

 

[laconicstudent]

It's long past time for a reminder: the theory of evolution is just a theory - nothing more. Some are pretty loose in the use of the word "fact" and "science". Most of the so-called evidence for the theory of evolution has been debunked and thrown out.

Gravity is also a theory. And no, most of the evidence has not been "debunked and thrown out"

You must have missed the release of Ardipithecus papers last month... That little hominid transition fossil that appears to confirm all the current theories on human origins? You may have heard of it. You can delude yourself by imagining that there isn't evidence or the evidence is being refuted, but it simply isn't true.

So, it's time for another reality check. The theory of evolution is hanging by a thread. It's further away from facts than ever.

Considering we keep doing research like this Historical contingency and the evolution of a key innovation in an experimental population of Escherichia coli — PNAS

that is actually proving evolution, I'd have to say your statement is downright delusional.

Guesswork and vivid imaginations are the mainstay of the theory of evolution, but the die-hards won't give up on it yet because of losing face.

No, no matter how much you like to tell yourself that, the mainstay of science is experimentation and evidence. You just don't like it, so you ignore it, and pretend it doesn't exist when we cite it.

It would also mean the loss of great amounts of funding that could be used on real science.

Like what? Creation "Science"?

So, after all these years, we have what's left of what hasn't been debunked yet, and they call it the theory of evolution. REMEMBER: THEORY NOT FACT.

Gravity is not a fact, then. And what's left of Evolutionary Theory is just about all of it.

In the mean time, God's Account of Creation in Genesis stand stands and makes much more sense.

Except astrophysics, radiometric dating, the chalk cliffs of Dover, the fossil record, archaeology, genetics and geology have all flatly disproven that literal account.

Only the Creator can tell you the origin of man and the universe.

God-of-the-gaps is a logical fallacy. And for this to be reasonable, you need to prove scientifically that God exists.

Most obviously, man can't comprehend His actions, nor can man replicate them. In all of these thousands of years, the real facts that man learns were established and put in place by God.

that "Fact" hasn't been scientifically proven yet.

Here's the absolute Truth that will stand forever:

Genesis 1:1-31 KJV In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. 6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. 9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Pity you can't prove it.

Good News! -- The Holy Bible is the WORD OF GOD! -- God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit - The Creator Of All Things! -- "GOD'S GRACE" and "OUR WORKS" -- Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1623 to 1863 ) -- Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1961 to 2001 ) -- JESUS CHRIST - VERY GOD - LORD - SAVIOUR - MESSIAH - KING

Nice irrelevancy.

 

[Cabal]

It's long past time for a reminder: the theory of evolution is just a theory - nothing more. Some are pretty loose in the use of the word "fact" and "science". Most of the so-called evidence for the theory of evolution has been debunked and thrown out.

Not our fault you're behind with the definition - and none of this bluster changes the fact that scientific theories, including the theory of evolution, are based on facts and do not fit the colloquial definition of conjecture.

So, it's time for another reality check.

Never a truer word spoken.

The theory of evolution is hanging by a thread.

No, it's not.

It's further away from facts than ever.

No, it isn't.

Guesswork and vivid imaginations are the mainstay of the theory of evolution, but the die-hards won't give up on it yet because of losing face. It would also mean the loss of great amounts of funding that could be used on real science.

Nothing but innuendo and not even close.

So, after all these years, we have what's left of what hasn't been debunked yet, and they call it the theory of evolution. REMEMBER: THEORY NOT FACT.

Would it actually kill you to POST some of this alleged debunking? This kind of bravado with nothing behind it is embarrasing, frankly.

 

[pgp_protector]

Would it actually kill you to POST some of this alleged debunking? This kind of bravado with nothing behind it is embarrasing, frankly.

And gives Christians a bad name.
I wish to apologize for them, not all of us {edit to prevent flaming}

 

[Tinker Grey]

Self-deceived people needn't apply.Would you like to change your mind?

Not in the least. I never said I did no wrong. If we define sin as wronging a god and there is no god, then there is no sin.

 

[suzybeezy]

I believe God created everything including science. I am positive that He knows far more than our minds are even capable of grasping. The only thing I can be sure pf comes from the small insight that He provided in His word. I do not need to struggle with theories because I know that He is MY creator. nuff said!

 

[laconicstudent]

I believe God created everything including science.

Ok....

I am positive that He knows far more than our minds are even capable of grasping.

Good so far....

The only thing I can be sure pf comes from the small insight that He provided in His word.

Uh, that includes your fallible interpretation.

I do not need to struggle with theories because I know that He is MY creator. nuff said!

No. Your conclusion does not logically follow your premise.

 

[Tenka]

It's long past time for a reminder: the theory of evolution is just a theory - nothing more. Some are pretty loose in the use of the word "fact" and "science". Most of the so-called evidence for the theory of evolution has been debunked and thrown out.

So, it's time for another reality check. The theory of evolution is hanging by a thread. It's further away from facts than ever. Guesswork and vivid imaginations are the mainstay of the theory of evolution, but the die-hards won't give up on it yet because of losing face. It would also mean the loss of great amounts of funding that could be used on real science.

So, after all these years, we have what's left of what hasn't been debunked yet, and they call it the theory of evolution. REMEMBER: THEORY NOT FACT.

This whole post is demonstrably ignorance, lies and slander so it's kind of amusing that as a Sig you've chosen the boast "whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus".

I doubt he would be impressed.

 

[Split Rock]

It's long past time for a reminder: the theory of evolution is just a theory - nothing more. Some are pretty loose in the use of the word "fact" and "science". Most of the so-called evidence for the theory of evolution has been debunked and thrown out.

A theory in science is the highest form of knowledge. And no, most of the evidence has not been "debunked and thrown out." I thought bearing false witness was a sin?

So, it's time for another reality check. The theory of evolution is hanging by a thread. It's further away from facts than ever. Guesswork and vivid imaginations are the mainstay of the theory of evolution, but the die-hards won't give up on it yet because of losing face. It would also mean the loss of great amounts of funding that could be used on real science.

Wow. Not an original thought in the entire paragraph. Just the typical creationist propaganda and outright lies. Well done.

So, after all these years, we have what's left of what hasn't been debunked yet, and they call it the theory of evolution. REMEMBER: THEORY NOT FACT.

REMEMBER: A THEORY IN SCIENCE IS THE GREATEST FORM OF KNOWLEDGE.

In the mean time, God's Account of Creation in Genesis stand stands and makes much more sense. Only the Creator can tell you the origin of man and the universe. Most obviously, man can't comprehend His actions, nor can man replicate them. In all of these thousands of years, the real facts that man learns were established and put in place by God.

A man made from dirt, a woman from his rib, a talking snake and a tree of knowledge bearing magic fruit... more sense????

 

[CoderHead]

It's long past time for a reminder: the theory of evolution is just a theory - nothing more. Some are pretty loose in the use of the word "fact" and "science". Most of the so-called evidence for the theory of evolution has been debunked and thrown out.

No, we already had that like 20 pages back. But thanks for the epic copy-and-paste anyway. Please do learn what a theory actually is. And if there's so much debunking going on, why are we not aware of it? Can you cite a source?

 

[nChrist]

I believe God created everything including science. I am positive that He knows far more than our minds are even capable of grasping. The only thing I can be sure pf comes from the small insight that He provided in His word. I do not need to struggle with theories because I know that He is MY creator. nuff said!

Amen! - That's A LOT SAID!

 

[USincognito]

What a bunch of malarkey. It's clear why evolution is an embarrassment to real science. If you were convinced of any of this theoretical dribble in school, whatever school it was did you a great disservice. But, nobody said that the theory of evolution was for intellectuals. She made much more sense than you do, so you should ask her to tutor you.

I see you didn't respond to my comments about Fred Williams' EFT page you linked to. Did you overlook them?

There's a reason he's been on my ignore list for more than a year. This place would be a lot better if more people followed my lead. At the very least stop letting him change the subject all of the time with his silly word games.

Hear Hear! I realize some folks don't seem to have a complete day without their daily dose of whack-a-AV, but the level of discussion here would be increased several orders of magnitude if everyone just ignored his antics.

{snip} Often, logical analysis can be quite a barrier as the world is made up of many things that we can't see. Love, wind[b/], etc.

You've never seen a flag fluttering or a tree swaying? You've never seen leaves being blown in eddies? You've never seen smoke wafting from a fire in a certain direction? You've never seen clouds move? You've never exhaled on a cold day?

{snip}All I've ever seen, and what Thaumatergy offered in his link to 29 proofs are drawings.{snip}

Either you're making things up or you didn't actually look at the 29 Evidences because almost every one is supported by photos, not drawings.

 

[USincognito]

{snip}
Homo Erectus

{snip}

Homo Ergaster

Is it just me or are both of these skeletons Turkana Boy?

And why are you evolutionists so very angry? Why can you not just allow people to differ from you? Why must you always end with name calling?

Didn't your first post mention how you thought evolution supporters "ranted and raved" or something like that? Sounds to me like you're projecting.