Taking questions on Embedded Age Creation

[AV1611VET]

And the "artists´ renditions" are a) based on our currect experience and b) usually portrait Adam with a navel.

You usually go with what suits your own ideas best.

Okay --- I'm quite through now with the silliness.

Trying to debate with you guys, who don't understand because of your attitudes and training, is just getting us nowhere.

It seems all you guys want to do is take your frustrations on life out on God and His children.

Have a good day.

 

[TheReasoner]

Okay --- I'm quite through now with the silliness.

Trying to debate with you guys, who don't understand because of your attitudes and training, is just getting us nowhere.

It seems all you guys want to do is take your frustrations on life out on God and His children.

Have a good day.

AV, you don't debate. You repeat. You can't expect people to just drop milennia of scientific research just because you say your interpretation is correct yet cannot offer any evidence in support of your position.
Come on AV, you cannot expect people to drop all the evidence we have and follow your assumptions that have no evidence at all?!

Sorry I'm mad at you. I just have some issues with creationism as it nearly cost my faith and I have many friends and acquaintances who are not christians precisely because of creationism. I, for one, hate to see people who once followed Jesus and sought to spread His love to others now shun it because people like you have convinced them that Christianity equals creationism.

Now, you're a Christian. You're a man. I expect you'd understand it if I said I was angry at someone who tried to kill my body, and I hope you can understand it as a Christian when I say I am angry with the people who nearly killed my soul and has killed the souls of several of my friends and acquaintances. I hope you can understand that this does translate to you

 

[Cabal]

Okay --- I'm quite through now with the silliness.

Trust me, it got old a million posts ago.

Trying to debate with you guys, who don't understand because of your attitudes and training, is just getting us nowhere.

Hey, we can't help if you can't stay consistent from one page to the next.

It seems all you guys want to do is take your frustrations on life out on God and His children.

I'm sure it seems that way if you have the usual creationist victim complex.

 

[Freodin]

So what?

What does that have to do with anything?

Adam probably looked like a teenager, yet was 30 years old.

This would have been because he started his life out at 30 --- glorified and perfect.

When he was 100, he probably looked 35.

Remember Caleb?

85 years old, and yet he was itching to get Joshua to give him his inheritance so he could get up there in the mountains and do some serious martial activity.

Don´t you understand that this is getting to the core of our problems with your idea... not some "silliness"?

Adam "looked like" a teenager... but he "was" thirty.

But what does it mean to "be" thirty. You have just now excluded "physical appearance"... the thing that up to now you cited as your main point. If Adam "looked like" a teenager, why "wasn´t" he 17?

So there must be something else. You have already excluded growth, time passed, history... all the things that "normal" people connect with "age". Now you have excluded physical appearance and looks... so what is left?

 

[CoderHead]

According to C.I. Scofield

we like to give old Methuselah credit for being the oldest when he died

I usually go by artists' renditions.

I like to describe it as an eclectic between YEC and OEC.

It takes the best of both paradigms and combines them into one coherent cosmology.

(How convenient.)

Adam probably looked like a teenager, yet was 30 years old.

When he was 100, he probably looked 35.

Trying to debate with you guys, who don't understand because of your attitudes and training, is just getting us nowhere.

You're not debating. If you were, you wouldn't be using all of the classic signs of uninformed opinion ("I like to," "he probably," "I usually"). If you've got facts, then present them as facts. If they're your opinion, then open them up to scrutiny instead of grasping desperately onto them like a life preserver after a shipwreck. They're your opinion, AV. Opinions can be changed when faced with logic, reason, and fact. It's not a bad thing.

It seems all you guys want to do is take your frustrations on life out on God and His children.

I don't believe in God. I wouldn't presume to be able to affect God in any way whatsoever. I'm not mad at God; I don't think He exists. This is just your way of crying foul when someone shows you how ridiculous your opinion-based opinions truly are.

 

[hangback]

They've done it to you again AV1611VET.

 

[Nathan Poe]

AV, you don't debate. You repeat. You can't expect people to just drop milennia of scientific research just because you say your interpretation is correct yet cannot offer any evidence in support of your position.
Come on AV, you cannot expect people to drop all the evidence we have and follow your assumptions that have no evidence at all?!

Actually, he can expect that, and be oh so shocked when it doesn't work.

Would AV be AV if he didn't?

(Don't worry, he'll be back.)

 

[CoderHead]

I usually go by artists' renditions.

You know, the more I think about this, the more ludicrous it sounds. How are artists some kind of authority on how Adam, Eve, Moses, or Jesus would have looked? What a truly, deeply, idiotic statement!

Which one is correct:
(a)

(b)

(c)

(d)

They're all artists' renditions, yes?

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Okay --- I'm quite through now with the silliness.

Trying to debate with you guys, who don't understand because of your attitudes and training, is just getting us nowhere.

It seems all you guys want to do is take your frustrations on life out on God and His children.

Have a good day.

Watching AV cyber pout and stomp away always makes me lol...

It would be even more funny if it weren't so sad. AV actually thinks he is debating, and if we don't agree with his POV, the we just "don't understand." Please AV, when logic and reason is applied to your statements, and they are found lacking, doesn't mean if you keep repeating it, that we'll finally come 'round. This is what you would call 'brainwashing.' Come to think of it religion is alot like... nah, forget it.

It truly is sad to see how someone who has such blind devotion to a specific doctrine is not capable of seeing inconsistencies when aptly pointed out. Shame.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

You know, the more I think about this, the more ludicrous it sounds. How are artists some kind of authority on how Adam, Eve, Moses, or Jesus would have looked? What a truly, deeply, idiotic statement!

Which one is correct:
(a)

(b)

(c)

(d)

They're all artists' renditions, yes?

I vote for picture C.

 

[AV1611VET]

...I hope you can understand it as a Christian when I say I am angry with the people who nearly killed my soul and has killed the souls of several of my friends and acquaintances.

And you're not doing the exact same thing?

Or did you mean literally killing?

 

[Nathan Poe]

You know, the more I think about this, the more ludicrous it sounds. How are artists some kind of authority on how Adam, Eve, Moses, or Jesus would have looked? What a truly, deeply, idiotic statement!

Isn't it interesting, however, that whenever anyone claims to have a vision of Jesus, he always appears exactly as he does in the paintings -- IOW, exactly as the people expect him to look.

They even picture him tall.

 

[Nathan Poe]

And you're not doing the exact same thing?

Who is he doing it to, AV? You?

 

[Sanguis]

Isn't it interesting, however, that whenever anyone claims to have a vision of Jesus, he always appears exactly as he does in the paintings -- IOW, exactly as the people expect him to look.

They even picture him tall.

Yeah, they picture him as a tall Caucasian, with brown long hair and a brown beard.

If he existed, he'd've been Middle Eastern, and a lot shorter, because people 2000 years ago were generally a lot shorter than they are now.

5'5" would've been tall.

 

[TheReasoner]

And you're not doing the exact same thing?

I sure hope I am challenging your faith on areas where it needs challenging. You know what the good book says about building houses on sand AV. I don't know why you are as misguided as you are (sorry, but you are). If your faith crumbles when exposed to truth, is it then truly faith?
IF we believe in God, should not that belief transcend such trivial things as the creation parable AV?
Many people base their faith on that one thing. When they then see it does not hold water when put into the light, when they see it does not stand up to comparison with God's very own creation they dump it. It's sort of understandable. From their position Christ=young earth. When young earth then collapses, it is obvious to them that by association Christ must also be ficticious.

If you feel your faith is attacked by my position then I apologize. I do not mean to attack your relationship with Christ. Only to show you that God is bigger than you make Him out to be. If His marvelous creation is too complex for you to relate to or understand you're not alone. That's why I am studying what I am. Because it is much bigger and complex than I can ever understand. But I still see God in it, more clearly than I can see Him in doctrine and any human interpretation of a text.

My intention is to show you and other creationists that GOD is bigger than creationism. That He and His mercy does not depend on any human interpretation of any single parable, but that His hand can be seen in creation, and that His loving hand, His divine power can be seen and heard through creation as creation tells the tale. Not as human beings try to convey the story of God's wondrous power in limited human words, but in ALL it's glory and complexity the way it IS. And that no matter how we try to explain and express God's works with words it all falls unbelievably short. It's complexity and wonderful wonderful beauty shows us a great and wonderful God. One which is too great to be encompassed within such small things as poetry. Though poetry may describe it, it cannot accurately do so. It's like telling a child about how babies are made. You can tell it the truth, but you could never tell it the whole truth. It is too wonderful complex and beautiful for a child's mind to understand. So simple parables do instead. What I intend to say, then, is that as wit the child when he or she comes of age and discovers that making children is more than what the simple stories his or her parents told him/her, this increased complexity and wonder does not mean the child's parents lied. It simply means there's more to it. The same is true for creationists. When they learn to shed their medieval views and see reality for what it is, I do NOT want them to loose Jesus because some people have forced a false association on them. I don't want them to loose their faith and undergo the terrible challenging period I had to go through just because they weren't shown and told that GOD is BIGGER than creationism.

Or did you mean literally killing?

Well, if Jesus is the only way to salvation and you promote that which kills faith in Him, then how is that not the epitome of death?

 

[CoderHead]

Yeah, they picture him as a tall Caucasian, with brown long hair and a brown beard.

Exactly my point with my previous post. How could anybody who is even remotely serious about their belief in Jesus buy into photo (a)? Because it looks like them?

 

[BananaSlug]

I have a question AV, maybe one you will actually answer. If you claim that God told you evolution is false, and another Christian claims God told them evolution is true, which person is right?

 

[tanzanos]

I sure hope I am challenging your faith on areas where it needs challenging. You know what the good book says about building houses on sand AV. I don't know why you are as misguided as you are (sorry, but you are). If your faith crumbles when exposed to truth, is it then truly faith?
IF we believe in God, should not that belief transcend such trivial things as the creation parable AV?
Many people base their faith on that one thing. When they then see it does not hold water when put into the light, when they see it does not stand up to comparison with God's very own creation they dump it. It's sort of understandable. From their position Christ=young earth. When young earth then collapses, it is obvious to them that by association Christ must also be ficticious.

If you feel your faith is attacked by my position then I apologize. I do not mean to attack your relationship with Christ. Only to show you that God is bigger than you make Him out to be. If His marvelous creation is too complex for you to relate to or understand you're not alone. That's why I am studying what I am. Because it is much bigger and complex than I can ever understand. But I still see God in it, more clearly than I can see Him in doctrine and any human interpretation of a text.

My intention is to show you and other creationists that GOD is bigger than creationism. That He and His mercy does not depend on any human interpretation of any single parable, but that His hand can be seen in creation, and that His loving hand, His divine power can be seen and heard through creation as creation tells the tale. Not as human beings try to convey the story of God's wondrous power in limited human words, but in ALL it's glory and complexity the way it IS. And that no matter how we try to explain and express God's works with words it all falls unbelievably short. It's complexity and wonderful wonderful beauty shows us a great and wonderful God. One which is too great to be encompassed within such small things as poetry. Though poetry may describe it, it cannot accurately do so. It's like telling a child about how babies are made. You can tell it the truth, but you could never tell it the whole truth. It is too wonderful complex and beautiful for a child's mind to understand. So simple parables do instead. What I intend to say, then, is that as wit the child when he or she comes of age and discovers that making children is more than what the simple stories his or her parents told him/her, this increased complexity and wonder does not mean the child's parents lied. It simply means there's more to it. The same is true for creationists. When they learn to shed their medieval views and see reality for what it is, I do NOT want them to loose Jesus because some people have forced a false association on them. I don't want them to loose their faith and undergo the terrible challenging period I had to go through just because they weren't shown and told that GOD is BIGGER than creationism.



Well, if Jesus is the only way to salvation and you promote that which kills faith in Him, then how is that not the epitome of death?

Basically it all boils down to the very different way Americans view their religion. Europeans view Jesus as a poor, kind, forgiving, peacemaker, with many socialistic values whereas the American fundamentalists see Jesus as a knight in shining armour ready to do battle against anyone who does not "Blindly" follow church doctrine. They perceive God to be pro America and anti social reforms. I am not saying that they are bad people, just misguided by the overtly commercialised religion that has been wrapped in capitalistic paper and held by the ribbon of blind faith!

Have a nice day and excellent post if I may say so!

 

[AV1611VET]

I have a question AV, maybe one you will actually answer. If you claim that God told you evolution is false, and another Christian claims God told them evolution is true, which person is right?

Does it really matter to you guys?

God says, in writing, He walked on water, and you guys say He didn't.

 

[CoderHead]

God says, in writing, He walked on water, and you guys say He didn't.

The universe says He couldn't have. But what does that have to do with you and another fervent Christian disagreeing on a single subject even though you both read the same Bible?