Church of Christ Rejects Pre-Tribulation Rapture

[interpreter]

Funny, I still can't find any mention of a rapture by Jesus, either in the Gospels or the Revelation to John -- which is given to us more directly by God than any other book of the Bible.

 

[get it right]

Funny, I can't still can't find any mention of a rapture by Jesus, either in the Gospels or the Revelation to John -- which is given to us more directly by God than any other book of the Bible.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica] Jesus speaks about the Rapture in the Gospel according to Luke.
Though He speaks of two destructive events, the important focus is that believers are removed by God before the REALLY tough times happen on Earth; i.e. prior to God's wrath being poured out.
Regarding Sodom and Gomorrah, the destruction happens after Lot departs from Sodom. The Rapture is seen in verses 34-36 which also demonstrates that the event will happen simultaneously in each of the three major time zones on the Earth.
Working in the field is done in the Morning (36), grinding is done in the Afternoon (35) and sleeping, of course, occurs at Night (34):

[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]26 And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;
29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from Heaven and destroyed them all.
30 It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
31 On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
34 I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.
35 There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
36 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left. [/FONT]​

 

[B1inHim]

If that's the way you say it would happen pre trib, then why would it be any diffrent at pre wrath? why would planes not be falling out of the sky then etc.?

Pre-wrath... first we really need to see what pre-wrath is and then IF we can agree to the simple answer then it can be seen...

The statement of the rulers of the world at the time that this is being said is pre-wrath...
Rev. 6:12-17 (KJV)
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; [13] And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. [14] And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. [15] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; [16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: [17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The statement of "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: [17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Is simply placed as Pre-Wrath. No formula, no "old leaven" theology.

Notice that what Apostle John is describing as well "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. [14] And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. "

Two things, the gift fits perfectly right here where the angels of GOD would most definitely, not in vein, be catching, plucking, pulling, taking by force away and up, us being born up lest we dash our feet against a stone...

And the description of a person who had absolutly no idead what the fallout of an Inter Continental Ballistic Missile would look like is described to a "T".
All the way up to the heaven departing as a scroll when it is rolled together.

The magnitude of the opening of the 6th seal is past anything up till this account of Revelation thus far.

Who in the world would care what unmanned or unpiloted aircraft and vehicles were doing when a nuclear holocaust was taking place. All in the span of 60 whole minutes.
Thus TWO birds are taken out with one stone... Fulfillment of the "peace and safety" addendum and the opening of the 6th seal...

NOT to mention that as one looks at this with child like faith, simple, non formulated,the event that takes place sequentially directly after this is 144,000 sealed and the multitude in chapter 7...
Which, according to the directions given by GOD concerning the gift makes absolute perfect sense...

“When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense"
where have I seen this before?

The literal actions without the statement of the wrath of GOD starts in chapter 8 with angels doing Gods will...

 

[interpreter]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica] Jesus speaks about the Rapture in the Gospel according to Luke.
Though He speaks of two destructive events, the important focus is that believers are removed by God before the REALLY tough times happen on Earth; i.e. prior to God's wrath being poured out.
Regarding Sodom and Gomorrah, the destruction happens after Lot departs from Sodom. The Rapture is seen in verses 34-36 which also demonstrates that the event will happen simultaneously in each of the three major time zones on the Earth.
Working in the field is done in the Morning (36), grinding is done in the Afternoon (35) and sleeping, of course, occurs at Night (34):

[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]26 And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;
29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from Heaven and destroyed them all.
30 It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
31 On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
34 I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.
35 There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
36 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left. [/FONT]​

As it was in the days of Noah, the bad guys are taken, and the good guys are left. Those who are left on earth after the great tribulation and 7 last plagues will reign with Jesus and the martyrs in a gloriuous 1000 reign of the Church.

 

[watchm@n]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica] Jesus speaks about the Rapture in the Gospel according to Luke.
Though He speaks of two destructive events, the important focus is that believers are removed by God before the REALLY tough times happen on Earth; i.e. prior to God's wrath being poured out.
Regarding Sodom and Gomorrah, the destruction happens after Lot departs from Sodom. The Rapture is seen in verses 34-36 which also demonstrates that the event will happen simultaneously in each of the three major time zones on the Earth.
Working in the field is done in the Morning (36), grinding is done in the Afternoon (35) and sleeping, of course, occurs at Night (34):

[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]26 And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;
29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from Heaven and destroyed them all.
30 It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
31 On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
34 I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.
35 There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
36 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left. [/FONT]​

Wow, you can quote this and remain pretrib crazy. This passage clearly shows us that the rapture take place on the SAME DAY that Jesus returns to destroy the wicked with fire as mentioned in 2nd Thess 1:6-10. Which is a post trib event. How can you know this passage, quote it as referring to the rapture, and remain pretrib?

 

[get it right]

As it was in the days of Noah, the bad guys are taken, and the good guys are left. Those who are left on earth after the great tribulation and 7 last plagues will reign with Jesus and the martyrs in a gloriuous 1000 reign of the Church.

In the days of noah the bad guys are taken by the flood, not by God.
In the days of noah the good guys are not left on the earth but taken by God in the ark.

 

[get it right]

Wow, you can quote this and remain pretrib crazy. This passage clearly shows us that the rapture take place on the SAME DAY that Jesus returns to destroy the wicked with fire as mentioned in 2nd Thess 1:6-10. Which is a post trib event. How can you know this passage, quote it as referring to the rapture, and remain pretrib?

My purpose in that post is to show interperiter that Jesus does mention a rapture, we know their is more than one, this one at His second coming, the two witnesses, the pre trib - pre wrath catching up.

 

[watchm@n]

My purpose in that post is to show interperiter that Jesus does mention a rapture, we know their is more than one, this one at His second coming, the two witnesses, the pre trib - pre wrath catching up.

We know there is more than one rapture, huh, I do not know that. Some of the things pretribbers come up with to hold to their fallacy.

 

[get it right]

There have been many raptures, and there will be many more to come.
Even the 1 Thessalonians 4 rapture is actually two raptures, first of the dead in Christ, then, those in Christ who are alive.

 

[get it right]

We know there is more than one rapture, huh, I do not know that. Some of the things pretribbers come up with to hold to their fallacy.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jas 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. [/FONT]​

 

[get it right]

The Pre-trib teaching makes GOD out to be a terrorist...

My pre trib teaching dosn't make God out to be a terrorist.

By this happening this way, Faith would clearly be removed from the table for others to have by seeing this happen according to this doctrine. YES it will be seen…

Hope would also be removed as well for the same reasons and even more so.
And who would want to Love, have affection for a GOD who would cause the untimely death of the people who died at the hands of unmanned and unpiloted vehicles and aircraft initiated by an act of GOD that has been awaited for by Christianity for centuries

Was faith hore and Charity removed after flood, sodom etc.

We have faith in believing that our salvation is based on the Word of GOD and this coupled with hope makes it all the more desired.
However, the picture of removing every blood bought and paid for child of GOD in this particular way is actually an act of terror…

That is not God’s Way

Was it an act of terror when God removed noah and his family then destroyed mankind by flood.
Was it an act of terror when God took lot and family out of sodom and then rained missiles down from Heaven on sodom killing all the inhabitants etc.
No, God is not a terrorist.

I don't believe as you do that planes will fall out of the air at the rapture, but if the rapture is pre trib and planes do fall out of the air etc., then I say God's will be done.

 

[watchm@n]

There have been many raptures, and there will be many more to come.
Even the 1 Thessalonians 4 rapture is actually two raptures, first of the dead in Christ, then, those in Christ who are alive.

You obviously do not know the difference between the resurrection and the translation of the living.

 

[B1inHim]

Was it an act of terror when God removed noah and his family then destroyed mankind by flood.
Was it an act of terror when God took lot and family out of sodom and then rained missiles down from Heaven on sodom killing all the inhabitants etc.
No, God is not a terrorist.

I don't believe as you do that planes will fall out of the air at the rapture, but if the rapture is pre trib and planes do fall out of the air etc., then I say God's will be done.

That would not be GOD, not the GOD who finally sent His Son to die for us... this had not taken place in the OT so those things were acceptable... this Pre-Trib notion is a mans idea not GODs

 

[B1inHim]

I don't believe as you do that planes will fall out of the air at the rapture, but if the rapture is pre trib and planes do fall out of the air etc., then I say God's will be done.

That is a pretty insensitive attitude of someone who claims the banner of Christ for salvation...
I really care and love y'all...

The Pre-wrath harpazo fits and will take place... Not because I say so, because Gods Word is direct comparison with it and before the gift was even shown to this servant, I had never even heard of a 'RAPTURE" of "HARPAZO", ever.
Yet once it was explained in research and prayer it became apparent that the Pre-and Post teaching were in direct conflict with the Word without great formulas... NOT the first resurrection or any other, just the harpazo and its relation to where it takes place in the Word according to GOD, not men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-qDSB1xsN8

 

[B1inHim]

YouTube - God Wins-Message Series Intro

LOTS OF LOVE Y'ALL

​

 

[interpreter]

As in the days of Noah, the bad guys will be taken, and the good guys left on earth. I pray that I am "left behind" to reign with Jesus and the martyrs in the glorious 1000 reign of the Church. (See Mat. 24:37-41)

 

[get it right]

You obviously do not know the difference between the resurrection and the translation of the living.

You are clearly referring to yourself there.

The redemption of the dead and those still living comes under the same event that we commonly call the rapture, irrespective of what rapture is being discussed.

Those asleep in Christ first and then those in Christ who are alive.
In this event, bodily redemption, and two seperate raptures not far apart.

 

[get it right]

That would not be GOD, not the GOD who finally sent His Son to die for us... this had not taken place in the OT so those things were acceptable... this Pre-Trib notion is a mans idea not GODs

You think nothing terrible like sodom and flood happenings of the OT, happen in the NT.

Read revelation again.

 

[get it right]

That is a pretty insensitive attitude of someone who claims the banner of Christ for salvation...

Let me assure you, agreeing that Gods will be done no matter what the event may be that is from God, is not of a wrong attitude at all, and does not mean that this person only claims Christs salvation.
But this person that says gods will be done no matter what, certinally does have Christs salvation without doubt, and he certinally does have the right attitude on this, let me assure you of that.

On the other hand those that don't agree with Gods will are not saved.

 

[get it right]

As in the days of Noah, the bad guys will be taken, and the good guys left on earth. I pray that I am "left behind" to reign with Jesus and the martyrs in the glorious 1000 reign of the Church. (See Mat. 24:37-41)

I pray that I'm caught up to Christ in the clouds in the air and that I be a pillar in the temple of my God, in the New Jerusalem.