Atheist Universe: Not Impossible

[allhart]

Natural law or the law of nature (Latin: lex naturalis) is a theory that posits the existence of a law whose content is set by nature and that therefore has validity everywhere.[1] The phrase natural law is opposed to the positive law (which is man-made) of a given political community, society, or nation-state, and thus can function as a standard by which to criticize that law.[2] In natural law jurisprudence, on the other hand, the content of positive law cannot be known without some reference to the natural law (or something like it). Used in this way, natural law can be invoked to criticize decisions about the statutes, but less so to criticize the law itself. Some use natural law synonymously with natural justice or natural right (Latin ius naturale), although most contemporary political and legal theorists separate the two.

The point is? and to whom do you make the point to?

 

[marksman007]

The reason doctors and scientists have more authority is because you cannot launch a rocket to the Moon based off of information in the bible.

"Pastor, I believe you have a degree in psychology?"

"Yes, that is right."

"We have a teenage boy that we are having some trouble with and we can't seem to get through to him. Would you meet with him and see of you can help."

"I would love to help you but I can't because I haven't launched a rocket to the Moon."

"What has launching a rocket to the moon got to do with giving a teenage boy psychological help?"

I don't know, but apparently atheists believe that unless you have launched a rocket to the moon, you don't have any authority."

"Well, if you ever do launch a rocket to the moon, make sure all the atheists are on it as they talk about as much sense as a...rocket to the moon. In the meantime, lets get back to the real world and get this boy some help."

"Just as a matter of interest, do you know what caused the problem in the first place."

"It appears that his school taught that there is no God; you came from a blob; there is no purpose in life as when you die all there is is six feet under. Apparently he got so depressed at the information he decided that suicide would be better than having to go through all the exams to get into university and sit all the exams to graduate from university and all the study he would have to do to stay on top of his job. After all if it is six feet under when you die whether you succeed or fail, what is the purpose of living? It got too much for him so he is a nervous wreck."

"Strewth, the rocket is going to have to wait. Deprogramming the boy from all these lies is more important than agreeing to some fairy tale to get authority. I will have to be content to just be a dumb Pastor/psychologist and help people escape unreality.

 

[b&wpac4]

"It appears that his school taught that there is no God; you came from a blob; there is no purpose in life as when you die all there is is six feet under. Apparently he got so depressed at the information he decided that suicide would be better than having to go through all the exams to get into university and sit all the exams to graduate from university and all the study he would have to do to stay on top of his job. After all if it is six feet under when you die whether you succeed or fail, what is the purpose of living? It got too much for him so he is a nervous wreck."

Care to show me this high rate of suicide for atheists? Wouldn't believing there was nothing after death help prevent some? I forgot, you like anecdotal evidence or just creating it yourself.

 

[roflcopter101]

Hi, my friend. I understand your thoughts of questioning,but we have to build on our information of knowing and you can't look at component four without knowing one. Origin, meaning, morality and destiny.

Origin is how matter, energy, the universe, etc. came to be. To relate it to only humanity is arrogant.
Why does consciousness need a justification? Many living things are alive just because they are better at surviving, and consciousness would be a more complex manifestation of instinctual wants to survive and seek pleasure. It is a simple fact that things that survive and reproduce will outnumber things that do not survive or do not reproduce, and the success of a species such as humanity is due to this inbuilt want to survive rather than any specific, philosophical reason.
For this same reason, matter and light and energy need no explanation of WHY it is here more than they need an explanation of HOW they are here, thereby answering the question of "how did the universe come to be?".

 

[allhart]

Origin is how matter, energy, the universe, etc. came to be. To relate it to only humanity is arrogant.
Why does consciousness need a justification? Many living things are alive just because they are better at surviving, and consciousness would be a more complex manifestation of instinctual wants to survive and seek pleasure. It is a simple fact that things that survive and reproduce will outnumber things that do not survive or do not reproduce, and the success of a species such as humanity is due to this inbuilt want to survive rather than any specific, philosophical reason.
For this same reason, matter and light and energy need no explanation of WHY it is here more than they need an explanation of HOW they are here, thereby answering the question of "how did the universe come to be?".

Like I said, you have to assume space, time and matter first. Where did that come from?

It just sprung from nothing space time and matter into existence? ORIGIN

 

[roflcopter101]

"Pastor, I believe you have a degree in psychology?"

"Yes, that is right."

"We have a teenage boy that we are having some trouble with and we can't seem to get through to him. Would you meet with him and see of you can help."

"I would love to help you but I can't because I haven't launched a rocket to the Moon."

"What has launching a rocket to the moon got to do with giving a teenage boy psychological help?"

I don't know, but apparently atheists believe that unless you have launched a rocket to the moon, you don't have any authority."

"Well, if you ever do launch a rocket to the moon, make sure all the atheists are on it as they talk about as much sense as a...rocket to the moon. In the meantime, lets get back to the real world and get this boy some help."

Though some may disagree with me, psychology is generally considered a science. If the pastor is a qualified psychologist, then it should technically be alright to be asking him for advice. My point was that concrete, replicable, and thoroughly tested knowledge is generally held in higher regard than advice from, say, a self-help book.

"It appears that his school taught that there is no God; you came from a blob; there is no purpose in life as when you die all there is is six feet under. Apparently he got so depressed at the information he decided that suicide would be better than having to go through all the exams to get into university and sit all the exams to graduate from university and all the study he would have to do to stay on top of his job. After all if it is six feet under when you die whether you succeed or fail, what is the purpose of living? It got too much for him so he is a nervous wreck."

Marksman007, I am 15 years old, am a junior in high school, and my first life goal is to get obscenely rich.
To this end, I will study hard for exams, get into good colleges, get a high-paying job, and then thoroughly enjoy myself with my hard-earned money.
Does life have a predefined purpose? I doubt it. Does that mean that you cannot give it purpose? No. My purpose is to enjoy all the pleasures in this world before I die happily and content.

Deprogramming the boy from all these lies is more important than agreeing to some fairy tale to get authority. I will have to be content to just be a dumb Pastor/psychologist and help people escape unreality.

Ignorance is bliss, but awareness is enlightenment.

 

[roflcopter101]

Like I said, you have to assume space, time and matter first. Where did that come from?

It just sprung from nothing space time and matter into existence? ORIGIN

Frankly, humanity has no idea why it is there. Thus, assuming that it was a product of intelligent design would be illogical as well.

 

[allhart]

Frankly, humanity has no idea why it is there. Thus, assuming that it was a product of intelligent design would be illogical as well.

You are soooo opinionated and assume a-lot! I discuss social knowledge. I didn't come up with this. I logically look at the evidence and the universe doesn't disprove God. For all its complexity it proves of a intelligent designer.

 

[DeathMagus]

You are soooo opinionated and assume a-lot! I discuss social knowledge. I didn't come up with this. I logically look at the evidence and the universe doesn't disprove God. For all its complexity it proves of a intelligent designer.

What would a universe without a designer look like? What would the differences be? How would you know?

 

[marksman007]

The point is? and to whom do you make the point to?

An atheist said there was no such thing as natural law. Obviously not everyone agrees with him.

 

[marksman007]

I am 15 years old, am a junior in high school, and my first life goal is to get obscenely rich.

Mark 8:36. For what shall it profit a man if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul?

 

[marksman007]

Marksman007, I am 15 years old,

When my son was a teenager he knew everything. Now he is 37, married and has five children. The oldest is the top student in her school. He has woken up to the fact that when you are no longer a teen there is a lot to learn. I hope you find out the same.

 

[quatona]

You directing your argument at the person holding the view now?

No, it wasn´t even an argument. It was a completely unobjective remark not suited to refute whatever position you might hold.

Could you leave the slurs out of our argument or discussion, because I imagine you might have some inadequacy's in life as well.

Well, you were the one bringing up his private life.

Origin please?

Origin of what? My assumption about you being a good cook?
I think the attempt to write in complete sentences would help everyone at least understand what you want to say greatly. I for one can´t decypher most of what you say, so I won´t even try to address it.

So how did the curry turn out?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I guess you will have to wait until you die to find out your wrong.

I believe the Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist, would say the same to me, and to you .

 

[Wiccan_Child]

You are soooo opinionated and assume a-lot! I discuss social knowledge. I didn't come up with this. I logically look at the evidence and the universe doesn't disprove God. For all its complexity it proves of a intelligent designer.

If you can logically demonstrate that the evidence demonstrates there is/was an intelligent designer, please, go ahead.
Simply pointing to the complexity of the universe is insufficient. Complexity is neither necessary nor sufficient evidence of a designer.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Care to show me this high rate of suicide for atheists? Wouldn't believing there was nothing after death help prevent some? I forgot, you like anecdotal evidence or just creating it yourself.

Actually, he is right in a way.

From Mentalhelp.net

Religiosity seems to have a protective effect against suicide. Exactly which religion(s), during what ages/developmental periods, and among which ethnicities remain unanswered questions. Many of the studies of the relationship between religion and suicide have been too small, contradictory, or flawed to make overall conclusions. However, research suggests that in the United States, areas with higher percentages of individuals without religious affiliation have correspondingly higher suicide rates. Involvement with a religion may provide a social support system, a direct way to cope with stressors, a sense of purpose and/or hope, and may lead to a stronger belief that suicide is wrong. Religiosity also seems to be related to other demographic factors; religious North Americans are much less likely than nonreligious people to abuse drugs/alcohol and to divorce (which are both associated with increased suicide risk).

Religious Tolerance.org confirms this but makes the excellent point:

What is not known is the degree to which the increased rate of religious attendance and lower rates of suicide are directly related as cause and effect. Other influences may be present, that are unrelated to church attendance:

• Persons who are depressed are among the most likely to commit suicide, and are less likely to attend church, synagogue, mosque, temple, circle, etc.
• Homosexuals have one of the highest suicide rates of any group in society, and are often disinclined to attend church because of the degree of rejection and homophobia there.
• Attendance at religious services potentially gives individuals access to a support network. Those without a support network are most likely to commit suicide.

The article in the above link shows how complex the issue is. For example, trends seem to change when age is factored in. Elderly men seem to be more likely to commit suicide in a religious country than in one less so. It is a worthwhile read.

I think that given that atheists are not organized, there is nothing for individuals to belong to. It is harder to attach oneself to a social structure.

BUT, to be very clear, there is no evidence that atheists commit suicide because they are atheists.

 

[allhart]

No, it wasn´t even an argument. It was a completely unobjective remark not suited to refute whatever position you might hold.
Well, you were the one bringing up his private life.
Origin of what? My assumption about you being a good cook?
I think the attempt to write in complete sentences would help everyone at least understand what you want to say greatly. I for one can´t decypher most of what you say, so I won´t even try to address it.

So how did the curry turn out?

Curry was a success, but I Don't remember bringing his private life up. On my sentences I get excited, but I'm trying to slow down, however; you and others can get the broad understanding or picture I'm relaying. I'm not saying you, but most like to us my inadequacy's as a trump card and that's sad. Thanks for taking the time to write and respond. I hope I'm not the only one getting all the fun here.. I get to love on you and learn about you, plus write I hope in the end we get to spend eternity together. Contemplating a new adventure

 

[allhart]

If you can logically demonstrate that the evidence demonstrates there is/was an intelligent designer, please, go ahead.
Simply pointing to the complexity of the universe is insufficient. Complexity is neither necessary nor sufficient evidence of a designer.

I did, but you won't acknowledge it. The difference between Free will and matter (atom combination in the periodic table) The making of a new structure. Rearranging of parts. Doesn't give you self awareness, free will and consciousness? Will you recognize this ? Will you be honest and differentiate between matter and self? If you grasp self awareness then you can us cause and effect on not only matter, but free will (spirit)? There is more than one reality here, so there is more than one way to explain our reality Pleeeease tell me you can see my point or are you going to avoid the real crutch of the matter?

 

[b&wpac4]

I did, but you won't acknowledge it. The difference between Free will and matter (atom combination in the periodic table) The making of a new structure. Rearranging of parts. Doesn't give you self awareness, free will and consciousness? Will you recognize this ? Will you be honest and differentiate between matter and self? If you grasp self awareness then you can us cause and effect on not only matter, but free will (spirit)? There is more than one reality here, so there is more than one way to explain our reality Pleeeease tell me you can see my point or are you going to avoid the real crutch of the matter?

Your argument is that sentience is proof of a designer, yes?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I did, but you won't acknowledge it. The difference between Free will and matter (atom combination in the periodic table) The making of a new structure. Rearranging of parts. Doesn't give you self awareness, free will and consciousness? Will you recognize this ? Will you be honest and differentiate between matter and self? If you grasp self awareness then you can us cause and effect on not only matter, but free will (spirit)?

Your argument (such that it is) relies upon two assumptions: that free will actually exists, and that there is this 'cause and effect'. Care to justify either of these? That is, can you demonstrate that free will actually exists? As far as I can tell, your argument requires that it does. Unless you can demonstrate the existence of free will, then your argument is worthless.

There is more than one reality here, so there is more than one way to explain our reality Pleeeease tell me you can see my point or are you going to avoid the real crutch of the matter?

The word is 'crux', and, despite my best efforts, I simply cannot decipher your English. For instance, you said:

"The difference between Free will and matter (atom combination in the periodic table) The making of a new structure. Rearranging of parts. Doesn't give you self awareness, free will and consciousness? Will you recognize this ? Will you be honest and differentiate between matter and self?"

Did you mean: "Matter cannot give rise to free will"? Because, y'know, it's a lot shorter, and a lot easier to comprehend.

And don't think I didn't notice the loaded question ("Will you be honest and..."). So, what, if I don't cede defeat and convert to your worldview, I must be dishonest? It couldn't possibly be that I'm simply unconvinced by your argument, right?