Christianity & Evolution Are Compatible...A Reflection

CoderHead

Knee Dragger
Aug 11, 2009
1,087
23
St. Louis, MO
Visit site
✟16,347.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
The Line of Jesus through Joseph

The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, [...] and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.
Exactly. Joseph, aside from being Mary's husband, had absolutely no part in Jesus' conception whatsoever. He wasn't Jesus' father. So how is Jesus a descendant of David?
 
Upvote 0

CoderHead

Knee Dragger
Aug 11, 2009
1,087
23
St. Louis, MO
Visit site
✟16,347.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
"On the eve of the passover they hanged Yeshu. And an announcer went out in front of him for 40 days, saying: "He is going to be stoned, because he practiced sorcery and enticed and lead Israel astray. Anyone who knows anything in his favor, let him come and plead on his behalf."

From this we know Jesus existed
Jesus wasn't stoned.
 
Upvote 0

TerranceL

Sarcasm is kind of an art isn't it?
Jul 3, 2009
18,940
4,661
✟105,808.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
All I have heard is how creation is a joke but have seen no references to your view point of why? Saying this over and over doesn't make it more true; in fact, its all sounding very childish. I showed you just a portion of my evidence. I will be waiting for the other view point.

Because your creation myths are as silly as all the other creation myths. And have zero credibility.
 
Upvote 0

salida

Veteran
Jun 14, 2006
4,305
278
✟6,243.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
I will name a couple mathematicians as there are more. Yes, mathematicians can be wrong-there is always a possibility. Again, pink and green elephants flying around in a room is possible but not probable.This is why I use statistics because nothing can be proved with 100% accuracy. We arn't sure the sun will come up tomorrow 100%.
Henry M. Morris, PhD is Engineering and Math wrote an article on The Bible and Modern Science.

In this article is a mathematican named Peter Stoner, a PhD in CA. Each class member was assigned a particular Messianic prophecy for study with the purpose of determining the statistical chance that a particular event could have been predicted without supernatural inspiration. For example, the prophecy in Micah 5:2 says that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem. Thus, the probability of chance fulfillment would be one divided by the number of towns in Israel at the time. The probabilities of fulfillment were determined for each of 48 Messianic prophecies-as each student was assigned a prophecy.

The probability of several chance occurrences independent of each other - is like playing power ball but even more remote because power ball doesn't have 48 numbers in it. This conclusion with the professor of all 48 possibilities occurring at the same time was one in with one with 181 zeros.
 
Upvote 0

salida

Veteran
Jun 14, 2006
4,305
278
✟6,243.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Terr-

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it. Your free will- will override any evidence that people give you. I was debating Amoeba the person who started this thread- they haven't even showed up. This all seems futile to me because they haven't showed up yet, but I'm always glad to present the evidence and facts no matter what. I don't discuss these things normally with those who have already made up their mind -its a waste of my time and theirs.

Other than Amoeba who started this thread and others who haven't made up their mind already-I'm not interested in discussing this subject anymore as you get myths mixed up with fact and think fables are fact.

Oh, that Joseph -trying to be clever CoderHead. So, because Jesus wasn't conceived by Joseph and Mary in the physical sense so he doesn't have a lineage? God doesn't bow to natural laws but you can't say his lineage doesn't exist because he was conceived by virgin birth. Good try.

I'm done responding here to everyone but Amoeba. He hasn't showed up-he is the one I'm suppose to debate and so hasn't even back up what he has said. I think I'm surrounded by politicians.

***Responses such as myths blah blah + no resources + noise + Jesus wasn't this or that=Zero
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

CoderHead

Knee Dragger
Aug 11, 2009
1,087
23
St. Louis, MO
Visit site
✟16,347.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Oh, that Joseph -trying to be clever CoderHead. So, because Jesus wasn't conceived by Joseph and Mary in the physical sense so he doesn't have a lineage? God doesn't bow to natural laws but you can't say his lineage doesn't exist because he was conceived by virgin birth. Good try.
So if you had a step-father, would you trace your lineage through him? No! You'd trace it through your biological father and/or your mother. In the case you didn't know who your father was (or that your father doesn't have a lineage because he's God), you'd use your mother's ancestors only - not your step-parent.

Come on, seriously. This is obviously a case of creative interpretation in order to check off another prophecy. So, back to you - good try.
 
Upvote 0

loveiseverywhere

Theistic Evolutionist / Ex-Atheist
Jun 8, 2006
722
86
53
Pensacola, FLorida
Visit site
✟9,143.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Hi, I'm new, and I just wanted to expound on creationism. Also, when I use the word creationism, I also mean intelligent design.

First of all, Christians can believe in God and evolution, and be 100% content in their compatibility. If anyone states that evolution disproves god, or that you can't be a christian and believe in evolution, just know...they are full of it...

Creationism is full of logical holes and assumptions based on ideological grounds...in fact, I believe it puts God in a box, a box which he does not belong. It limits God to an interpretation not based in reality. Why is it not based in reality? Because the scientific data does not support it. Science itself allows the experiment to dictate the results. But creationists turn this on its head. They know the answer. They are simply trying to make the experiment fit into their preconceived view of reality. That is not science. And if you believe in God, you should also believe that science is the pursuit of knowing the mind of God.

Creationism relies on a false dichotemy. The creationists I have seen (i.e. Ken Ham, etc) main goal is not to prove creationism. Their main goal is disprove evolution, and the logic is, "If we disprove evolution, then creationism must be right." Unfortunately for them, disproving evolution does not prove creationism, especially given the fact that the proposition, "God created the universe", is a completely unprovable proposition within the realm of science. So to say creationism is science is a blatant oxymoron because "God" cannot be empirically studied. Intelligent design included.

Evolution says nothing about god or the existence god. If anything, if you are a Christian, you should be amazed at the fact of evolution, biological and cosmic. That God, in his logic, created a universe which evolves according to physical laws, and this evolution, after 13.7 billion years, resulted in you. It took 13.7 billion years of evolution for you to exist, and the fact that you even exist, that all the events during this insurmountable amount of time, resulted in your birth, is simply amazing. Evolution is a miracle and to deny it, in my opinion, is to deny reality. It is a fact, and if God created this universe, and us, it was done by evolution.

The Bible is full of wisdom, history, and theology. But it is NOT a scientific document. Let me repeat that. THE BIBLE IS NOT A SCIENTIFIC DOCUMENT. There is a real problem with creationist "science" because it is based on a non-scientific document and assumed to be the answer to all scientific questions of our origins.

One of creationists main focuses are human evolution. They just cannot believe that we evolved from ape-like ancestors, or single-celled organisms. A good one I've heard while in church was, "They want us to believe we evolved from pond scum! Pond scum." Well, perhaps not "pond scum", but we are essentially made out of dirt. Even the bible says (Gen 2:7), "the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being." 13.7 billion years condensed into one sentence! Amazing! All living things are made of the same carbon based chemical concoction. Yes, we are made of the same stuff as trees, fish, and yes, apes. That is not to say we are a tree or fish or an ape (though we are in the same super-family).

So to conclude. Evolution is a fact. If you are a Christian and questioning whether you can believe in God and evolution, you can! Wonder in amazement that an almost infinite number of events over a incomprehensible amount of time (13.7 billion years), led to your birth, your life, both of which, should have statistically never happened! Reflect on that.

1233_hand_clapping.gif


bravo.jpg


That was simply AWESOME!!!!!
 
Upvote 0

loveiseverywhere

Theistic Evolutionist / Ex-Atheist
Jun 8, 2006
722
86
53
Pensacola, FLorida
Visit site
✟9,143.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
In Relationship
I will give you outside sources about Christ. That isn't difficult either. I will mention a portion out of many historians:

Jewish Talmud
Tannaitic Period: from 70 AD to 200AD- Sanhedrin 43a:
"On the eve of the passover they hanged Yeshu. And an announcer went out in front of him for 40 days, saying: "He is going to be stoned, because he practiced sorcery and enticed and lead Israel astray. Anyone who knows anything in his favor, let him come and plead on his behalf." (These jews who wrote this despised him)

From this we know Jesus existed, was crucified (hanged on a tree) on the eve of the passover, he performed miracles (jews called this sorcery), he lead many people away from legalistic jewish teaching, the jewish leaders were plotting to kill Jesus.

Historian Tacitus; He wrote a 12 volume set called the Annuals which spans the historical period from the reign of Tiberius (from a point predating the ministry of Jesus) to the reigns of Claudius and the beginning of Nero's (the last years of Paul's ministry). He wrote in 115AD - Christus (founder of christianity) was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea. Tacitus was antichristian.

Historian Phlegon; Origen,184-254AD; Jesus appears to have been crucified, and the great earthquakes that took place.

Documents that prove bible is true not in bible:
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

-Historical Accuracy
The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago, yet has not been proven incorrect on any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament - starts at 25 years - between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years

Number of Manuscript Copies
New Testament - 5,686
Homer - 643
Demosthenes - 200
Plato - 7
Caesar - 10

The OP didn't deny the validy of Christ. It denied Creationism as God's method of creating the world.

It's called Theistic Evolution.

Ken Miller wrote Finding Darwin's God and he's Catholic and teaches biology at Brown.

Francis Collins, leader of the Human Genome Project, was led to Christ by studying DNA. Read his book, "The Language of God."
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

salida

Veteran
Jun 14, 2006
4,305
278
✟6,243.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
CoderHead-

In Matthew it mentions Jesus lineage under legal terms through King David to Joseph; This is on the male side and the male gets the inheritance; this is how the culture was back then.

In Luke it mentions Jesus lineage through Mary's -where Jesus descended naturally through Nathan.

So, dismissing Jesus lineage because it wasn't natural on both sides is in great error.

I would visit christian research institute if you are sincere about understanding the Bible. You can google it. Its very informative. Its not the only source but its one of the most comprehensive ones on the internet.
 
Upvote 0

TerranceL

Sarcasm is kind of an art isn't it?
Jul 3, 2009
18,940
4,661
✟105,808.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
CoderHead-

In Matthew it mentions Jesus lineage under legal terms through King David to Joseph; This is on the male side and the male gets the inheritance; this is how the culture was back then.

According to the story Joseph wasn't his father so there is zero reason to use that lineage.

You might as well use king herods while your at it.
 
Upvote 0

KhaosTheory

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2011
542
15
✟828.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Thank you for this thread. I joined these forums today because I was having difficulty reconciling science with my faith.

The only thing that still bothers me is that I've been taught to accept the Bible literally as a perfect, complete work.

However, I'm having trouble understanding how Genesis, i.e. creation and the flood, coincides with science.

I'm still praying for understanding and searching for theories to hopefully make these Biblical accounts work with science.

But maybe I've been taught to interpret the Bible the wrong way my whole life.

See my dilemma?
 
Upvote 0

Zaius137

Real science and faith are compatible.
Sep 17, 2011
862
8
✟8,547.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
These days science is very friendly to the Christian. How can I say that you ask? First of all the Bible is not a science book but it is the foundation for a sound scientific viewpoint. If you look closely at the creation stories in secular science (Cosmology and Evolution) you find they hold no more water than cleverly designed fables.

About the age of the universe and the earth the bible is not clear. For myself I tend to be a young earth young universe advocate. But I must say that is my preference from the evidence in science and not a dogmatic statement in the bible (I refer to the gap in Genesis ch. 1 vs 1 and 2).

The Bible has always proved itself in archeology and creation constructs. The earth described as a globe in Isaiah, God starching out the heavens, each creature is after its own kind and so fourth.

It is a real problem for me as a Christian to see a fellow Christian hanging on the lies of evolution and a Big Bang. We as Christians don’t need a contrived story that does not hold the power of explanation or creation. Evolution gave up the idea of life from natural chemistry with the New Evolution synthesis and has been slipping ever since. The Big Bang is patchwork science and has failed the empirical evidence.

God is in the details and in his Word.
 
Upvote 0

Zaius137

Real science and faith are compatible.
Sep 17, 2011
862
8
✟8,547.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
A forgone conclusion…

"The science to which I pinned my faith is bankrupt. Its counsels, which should have established the millennium, led, instead, directly to the suicide of Europe. I believed them once. In their name I helped to destroy the faith of millions of worshippers in the temples of a thousand creeds. And now they look at me and witness the great tragedy of an atheist who has lost his faith." (George Bernard Shaw, Too Good to Be True)

How long will you let others think for you?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LovebirdsFlying

My husband drew this cartoon of me.
Christian Forums Staff
Red Team - Moderator
Supporter
Aug 13, 2007
28,726
4,216
59
Washington (the state)
✟832,583.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Elizabethinhatcropped.jpg

MOD HAT ON

This thread has undergone a cleanup. If you find that a post of yours has been removed, then it was for one of the following reasons:

1. It was ad hominem or flaming. Flaming is against the rules everywhere in CF, and whether the OP intended it or not, this thread is in Creation/Evolution Formal Debates, where ad hominem posts are against the Formal Debating rules posted here.

2. It was off topic to the subject of whether or not Christianity and evolution are compatible.

3. It quoted or answered a post that had to be deleted for one of the other two reasons.

This thread is now re-opened. Please resume the discussion, keeping to the rules. Thank you.

MOD HAT OFF
 
Upvote 0
May 9, 2012
1
0
✟15,111.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
I have problems with this one. Jesus wasn't a descendant of King David - that lineage was traced through Joseph, who had absolutely no part in Jesus' birth whatsoever. How do you figure this is accurate?

one geneology leads to Joseph, one leads to Mary. Incidentally, both are descendants of David, meaning Jesus was definitely a descendant of David.
 
Upvote 0