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[Countray]

I'm Christian but one of my best friends isn't a complete believer. She believes in Jesus but doesn't believe there is a God who created everything in seven days. Two days ago she asked me two questions: "if there is a God then why are some people poor and why are some people rich?" "Why do some get cancer and why are some healthy?"

I didn't know how to answer her, what would ya'll have said?

I also told her to read the book of Job because he struggled with his faith, he questioned God. Do you guys think that was a good idea?

 

[Van]

Hi Countray, lots of Christians hold the view that the bible does not teach exactly how or when God created everything. See Job chapter 38. If she believes God created everything somehow, that is a start.

There no reason to assume God controls everything so life is "fair." The Bible does not make that claim. Some people live a long time and have what appears to be a comfortable life, others die young after suffering much pain. So life is not about what cards we are dealt, but about how we play them. And according to the Bible, if you love Jesus and serve Him faithfully, God will see to it that all things, including your pain and suffering, will work together for good. Perhaps you will be an effective witness to others, perhaps not, but on that day when you see Jesus, you will receive the crown of life and rejoice with fellow Christians.

And no, I would not start her off with Job, I would recommend Matthew.

 

[jpr7]

I'm Christian but one of my best friends isn't a complete believer. She believes in Jesus but doesn't believe there is a God who created everything in seven days. Two days ago she asked me two questions: "if there is a God then why are some people poor and why are some people rich?" "Why do some get cancer and why are some healthy?"

I didn't know how to answer her, what would ya'll have said?

I also told her to read the book of Job because he struggled with his faith, he questioned God. Do you guys think that was a good idea?

I think Job is a good place to start. I probably would have started there also. From the start, Job is touted as a blameless man. God is actually the one who points out Job to Satan. Satan tries to reason that the only reason Job serves God is because God gives Job all these things and such. So God allows Satan to take away all these things from Job. Job doesn't know what's going on here, only the reader does.

Then Job's friends come along and try to reason it out with Job: Maybe Job committed a sin and is getting repaid. Maybe Job's children committed a sin. And so forth. It's all this cause-and-effect type of reasoning. At the end, God steps in and calls Job's friends liars. He also points out Job's flaw throughout the trial. God never gives Job the reason as to why all these things happened.

Job never deserved the things that he got. Job didn't commit any sin to deserve losing his family, household, possessions, and health. But Job is held highly by Scripture as an example of faith. "Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him" (Job 13:15a).

The bad things that happen to all people are things that God uses to build people's character, provided they respond the right way: through faith in Him. The church is God's gift to the suffering. The church is supposed to pray for and with people. The church prays for healing, deliverance, and so forth. But the church is also called to suffer with the people in their trials. People should see Jesus in the church. (Unfortunately, that always isn't the case.)

I didn't have the chance to look up all the Scripture for what I said. But if you want the references and you remind me, I'll do that when I can get to it.

 

[ArteestX]

The bad things that happen to all people are things that God uses to build people's character, provided they respond the right way: through faith in Him.

This mentality is one of the reasons I became an atheist. I would not recommend using this line of reasoning with your friend, unless you want to horrify her completely against Christianity.

 

[jpr7]

This mentality is one of the reasons I became an atheist. I would not recommend using this line of reasoning with your friend, unless you want to horrify her completely against Christianity.

I'm interested as to exactly what about it caused you to become an atheist.

 

[drich0150]

"if there is a God then why are some people poor and why are some people rich?"

If she doesn't believe in God, then how can she believe in Jesus?

We live in a time and place where our decisions or sin, and the consequences of our decisions will not be interfered with by God.

He has gone through alot of trouble to give us this life so that we may have the freedom to choose to be with him in the Next life. Truthfully, how much of a choice would we have, if this life was as good or better the next? Meaning God would have to correct all of our bad decisions in order to give all of us everything we wanted in this life.. Even if we chose God, would it be because we loved Him? or Because we love what he provides?

The reason Bad things happen to good people is because this Life is not meant to be our final destination, but a simple stepping stone from our creation to the rest of eternity. As such we have been given this life and this place to allow our will to reign (Over that of God if we so choose.) God wants all of his children to have what they need, He even commands that we make provision for the poor, but it is our will not to do so.

In short, there are poor people because we allow people to be poor.

"Why do some get cancer and why are some healthy?"

This life when compared to the rest of eternity is like a small pillar of steam. Here one second and Gone the Next. When People get hung up on what they consider to be an "early" death typically it's because the look at this life as all they have, and don't think it fair that someone else may get 20 years more than they get.. But in truth we all die, and really if we are like clouds of steam, what does it really matter if we are around one or two milliseconds longer than another cloud of steam?

This is why belief in Jesus/God is important.. That is unless all you want is to be the longest lasting cloud of steam ever. Which is what, 10 15 seconds? how does any cloud of steam compare to the rest of the day, week, month, year decade, century, Milena, eternity?

An early death is not the worst thing that could happen to us. I'd much rather die early than live a long time and not know God during any of that time.

 

[salida]

The answer to your question is that its not a perfect world. The rich and the poor? Acts 17:26-27. We all have very different situations so that we me know Him.

Why cancer and others don't? I'm have been fighting this stuff for 6 years and its gotten me closer to God and it has given me more longsuffering and patience. Thus, I have become more christ like. Also, it has brought glory to God by being a witness for him in that God has given me more strength to go through the adverse times in my life. 2 Co 12:10- He is glorified in my suffering. Its like a catepillar - it is in a cacoon and has to struggle so that it become a beautiful bufferfly. This is how it is spiritually. This world is a dressing room for heaven and this world isn't meant to be heaven and perfect. Job is a good example- the reason why he had many trials was so to bring out his trust in God. This glorified God even after his wife and friends said to curse God and die.

 

[ArteestX]

I'm interested as to exactly what about it {the quote} caused you to become an atheist.

The quote in question is: "The bad things that happen to all people are things that God uses to build people's character, provided they respond the right way: through faith in Him."

In response, I would ask anyone to walk into the children's wing of a burn unit at a hospital, look at all those children who are having their character built, and say that same quote over and over.

Or go to another country where people are literally starving, stomachs bloated from malnutrition, and tell them that they just need to respond to these bad things in the right way, through faith in Him.

Or go tell adults suffering from genetic diseases like multiple sclerosis, who haven't done anything more sinful than any other human being, that God used this disease to help them, to make their character better, and if they don't believe in Him and thank Him appropriately then they'll spend eternal torment in Hell.

 

[drich0150]

In response, I would ask anyone to walk into the children's wing of a burn unit at a hospital, look at all those children who are having their character built, and say that same quote over and over.

Or go to another country where people are literally starving, stomachs bloated from malnutrition, and tell them that they just need to respond to these bad things in the right way, through faith in Him.

Or go tell adults suffering from genetic diseases like multiple sclerosis, who haven't done anything more sinful than any other human being, that God used this disease to help them, to make their character better, and if they don't believe in Him and thank Him appropriately then they'll spend eternal torment in Hell.

Again none of these things are in God's expressed will. We have been left in charge of this life and of this earth. (So, If their were anyone to blame look at yourself and your neighbor.) That means there will be consequences to our actions. Without positive or negative consequence there could be no real choices, if there were no real choices their couldn't be "Free Will." If there wasn't any Free will then their wouldn't be a point to our existence.

We have been given this life to prove to ourselves in whom we love more. Ourselves and deeply held personal theologies or God Himself, we do this through free will. Otherwise God could have rightly divided us moments after being created into the two groups, of those who would choose to love God and those who would choose to love themselves over God. Sentencing those who choose themselves over God straight to Hell..

But Because God is a righteous God, He has given us this life to prove to ourselves just how we are to live if given the chance.. So again if we had God hovering over our shoulders all of the time correcting all of our bad choices in this life, How could He righteously send anyone away in the next? Why "fix" a problem like a burned child, and leave one that would condemn another to "burn" for eternity? How can that be considered righteous?

If we are to have a real choice in our lives we have to be able to live separately from God providence, otherwise what you are describing is the relationship we will have in heaven or what we had in the garden. It is good to long for those times, but know this place, this life is not where God will protect us like that. We are here to simply choose. So choose and be prepared to move on to live with your choice.

 

[ArteestX]

This entire post made me quite sad, but this was the quote that made me saddest of all....

Why "fix" a problem like a burned child, and leave one that would condemn another to "burn" for eternity?

I wish you all the peace in the world.

To Countray, I'd like to ask if you've had any more conversations with your friend and, if so, how did it go?

 

[jpr7]

The quote in question is: "The bad things that happen to all people are things that God uses to build people's character, provided they respond the right way: through faith in Him."

In response, I would ask anyone to walk into the children's wing of a burn unit at a hospital, look at all those children who are having their character built, and say that same quote over and over.

Or go to another country where people are literally starving, stomachs bloated from malnutrition, and tell them that they just need to respond to these bad things in the right way, through faith in Him.

Or go tell adults suffering from genetic diseases like multiple sclerosis, who haven't done anything more sinful than any other human being, that God used this disease to help them, to make their character better, and if they don't believe in Him and thank Him appropriately then they'll spend eternal torment in Hell.

ArteestX, I didn't ask you to make a polemic. I asked you how it caused you to become an atheist. I'm sorry if it's so hard for you to say why.

 

[MLEN]

The quote in question is: "The bad things that happen to all people are things that God uses to build people's character, provided they respond the right way: through faith in Him."

In response, I would ask anyone to walk into the children's wing of a burn unit at a hospital, look at all those children who are having their character built, and say that same quote over and over.

Or go to another country where people are literally starving, stomachs bloated from malnutrition, and tell them that they just need to respond to these bad things in the right way, through faith in Him.

Or go tell adults suffering from genetic diseases like multiple sclerosis, who haven't done anything more sinful than any other human being, that God used this disease to help them, to make their character better, and if they don't believe in Him and thank Him appropriately then they'll spend eternal torment in Hell.

Personally, I believe that bad things happen because there is sin in this world. The Bible tells us that sin is the transgression of God's law. It also tells us that the wages of sin is death. So the natural result of going (transgressing) against what God has told is good and right for us to do is that we will suffer negative consequences. The sadder part is that sin is so far reaching that it can affect generations of relatively good people across thousands of miles. Hence, we have pain and suffering endured by some because of the sin of others.

God's Law: Love your neighbors as yourself.
Man's transgression: People are selfish. They don't share and look out for others, so others who need help end up suffering from starvation.

There is a verse in the Bible that says, the curse causeless does not come. Which basically means the choices we make has consequences. These consequences can be dire and far reaching.

No one wants to think about how turning back to God and following his rules will save lives, prevent abuse, create a better world to live in. We just want to blame him and everyone else for what is wrong in this world.

Thankfully, pain and suffering sometimes turn us back to him. When we have no one else to call on that's when we realize that we need a higher power than ourselves to get us out of messes that sin has created. God doesn't like suffering. He wants us all to be happy. But he also gives us free choice to serve him or not. I think we all (I include myself) need to take a closer look at how some of the sinful choices we make may affect someone else down the line.

Thank God he has a plan of salvation to save us from our sinful selves. John 3:16 in the Bible tells us that plan. It is awesome. It works. There will be a better world one day soon!

 

[ArteestX]

The sadder part is that sin is so far reaching that it can affect generations of relatively good people across thousands of miles. Hence, we have pain and suffering endured by some because of the sin of others.

I absolutely agree, that is the sadder part. That hundreds of thousands of infants would be afflicted with genetic diseases, not because these individuals did anything wrong but because someone generations ago sinned. That is a horrible thought and any God who would do this is unworthy of worship.

 

[MLEN]

any God who would do this is unworthy of worship.

Hi Arteestx,

Please kindly explain what the "this" is that you believe God has done?

On another note, would you enlighten me on what the "Spirit of Life" is referring to in your quote ender?

 

[ArteestX]

Hi Arteestx,

Hi!

Please kindly explain what the "this" is that you believe God has done?

Sure. "This" referred to the idea that God would punish multiple generations for sins committed by others. In other words, the idea that God would afflict hundreds of thousands of infants with genetic diseases based on the sins of someone who lived thousands of years ago. Can you imagine punishing an infant for what someone did in 1309 A.D.? That was only 700 years ago. Or punish an infant today to lifelong pain based on what an ancestor did in 9 A.D., 2000 years ago? That isn't justice, that's petty, irrational revenge. And I don't believe that any just or loving God would do that.

On another note, would you enlighten me on what the "Spirit of Life" is referring to in your quote ender?

"Spirit of Life" is a hymn sung in Unitarian Universalist churches.

 

[Quasicentennial]

God used the global flood to eradicate human and animal living on land because sin had reached the worst level of violence and sexual crime. Hopefully, God is giving us time to use faith to accept Jesus Christ so that life after death can be given to you and also others who are suffering from poverty and disease. As a Christian, it is my mission to speak my God-gifted mind to Christians and non-Christians who visit the forum here, and also the country I am living as a permanent citizen. Giving money to church or charity to help others is very benevolent but God wants law-abiding athiests to not just give but accept Christ as his lifesaver so that we can be in God's kingdom as perfect Christ-like beings in heaven or when Jesus returns on a new Earth. Illogical confusion becomes perfectly clear explanation when we meet for the first time with Jesus and God.

 

[MLEN]

"Spirit of Life" is a hymn sung in Unitarian Universalist churches.

Hi,

Thanks for explaining the title. In the hymn it says, `spirit of life come unto me'. So I was actually wondering what the entity is that is being asked to come. Can you clarify please?

Hi! Sure. "This" referred to the idea that God would punish multiple generations for sins committed by others. In other words, the idea that God would afflict hundreds of thousands of infants with genetic diseases based on the sins of someone who lived thousands of years ago. Can you imagine punishing an infant for what someone did in 1309 A.D.? That was only 700 years ago. Or punish an infant today to lifelong pain based on what an ancestor did in 9 A.D., 2000 years ago? That isn't justice, that's petty, irrational revenge. And I don't believe that any just or loving God would do that.

Sorry if there was a misunderstanding. However, I did not say that God is doing the punishing. A natural law of action and consequence is in effect here. If you stand in the middle of a busy highway, you get hit. If you live contrary to God's laws of happiness, bad things will happen. Unfortunately, these natural consequences and the deepness of sin (which is the transgression of God's law) is that it is far reaching. That is why God wants to save us from it. Because he knows that one sin can lead to a number of negative outcomes.

Lawlessness (or a place without rules and order) would be total chaos (try running a classroom without rules, or a country for that matter). It's bad enough when people break the rules that are in place, but it would be a million fold worse if there were no way to enforce rules or no rules at all (God forbid).

What we do will reap an outcome (be it negative or positive). This applies to both believers in God and non-believers.

Let's say there really is no God. Would this change the fact that what we do will reap consequences? Certainly not. This action-consequence rule is in place no matter what. Therefore, God does not impose the punishment/suffering, but rather sets laws in place to try to save us from it.

P.S. I am sincerely appreciating the frank yet respectful we way are interacting and sharing our opinions here.

 

[RedRaven]

With the natural law of action and consequences how does sin equate to genetic disorders? Or autoimmune disorders in children? Example: A mother with no history of genetic disorders follows all the rule during pregnancy. Doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, gives up caffeine, doesn't eat deli meat (listeria), avoids imported soft cheeses (listeria), avoids seafood (mercury), takes all of her prenatals and is within what the medical field deems a healthy child bearing age. Her child is born with a genetic disease. How does that stem naturally from sin?

Evidently sin is why my daughter was diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes (autoimmune disorder) shortly before she turned three.

 

[MLEN]

With the natural law of action and consequences how does sin equate to genetic disorders? Or autoimmune disorders in children? Example: A mother with no history of genetic disorders follows all the rule during pregnancy. Doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, gives up caffeine, doesn't eat deli meat (listeria), avoids imported soft cheeses (listeria), avoids seafood (mercury), takes all of her prenatals and is within what the medical field deems a healthy child bearing age. Her child is born with a genetic disease. How does that stem naturally from sin?

Evidently sin is why my daughter was diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes (autoimmune disorder) shortly before she turned three.

I am truly sorry to hear of your daughter's disorder.

After having my son and daughter, my body got two different types of ailments. I was not sure if I would ever be healed from the sickness that occurred after my son was born. But I poured out my heart to the God in whom I believed, and was healed. I am now at the point where the illness I received after my daughter's birth can be remedied with a kind of carefully applied physiotherapy. Again, I thank God for that.

In the Bible, we are told of how God created the world, and the first man and woman, without disease. The earth flourished with beauty, life and health. Everything was originally good. But he did not create humans as mindless beings so he gave them a choice. In order for all to remain good they would have to obey his laws of happiness. Laws that were not only fair, but for their best good.

You probably know the story but they (the created beings) decided that they knew better than the one who created them. They turned from his commands and things started to go down hill from then. The Bible tells us that it then took a lot of hard toil and work for mankind to get the earth to produce food (whereas before life was a lot easier).

But, according to the Bible, the story goes deeper than that. It actually started when God created angels, and when one of them - who was one of the most beautiful and gifted of them all - decided to rebel against God. This is whom Christians refer to as satan, the devil, or lucifer. He not only rebelled (because he wanted to be God and couldn't), but convinced some of the other angels to rebel also. Satan knew the effects of rebelling against God and decided that he would destroy the mankind that only God could create. He was the one who succeeded at tempting the first man and woman to disobey God. Many people don't believe this, but he still does this today. He would rather destroy than bring life. God would rather bring life than destroy. There is a spiritual warfare going on between these two that will soon end. One will win and the other will lose. The Bible tells us that satan will lose and be destroyed along with anyone who chooses to be on his side. And when satan is destroyed, we are told that all sickness, suffering, pain, sorrow and even death itself will be destroyed.

God created all humans to have a desire for spiritual things. This is why, no matter what we each believe, we all crave a sense of spiritual peace and direction in our lives. God wants us to find that peace in him because he knows that only he can give it.

May you find that everlasting spiritual peace.

 

[MLEN]

Hi again RedRaven,

I see that you are listed as a pagan. Since I have expounded a bit on my beliefs, I would sincerely like to know what pagans believe? In particular, I have often wondered how a pagan gets through hard times? Do you believe in a higher being of some sort that you can pray to/trust in?

Sincerely....