The harlot of Babylon and the anti-christ.

[RND]

Do yourself a favor and invest an hour or so in the following video. It will help you see clearly that it isn't Jerusalem people need to focus on....it's Rome.

Total Onslaught - 205B - The Man Behind the Mask.avi

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

when did these waters become literal?

It isn't hard to understand symbolisim and being literal if a person even has minimal intelligence.

Re 17:15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

My bible states that the harlot is sitting on the water..."where the harlot sitteth". This isn't a game that God has put into play for us to guess where the harlot is really sitting. The bible emphatically tells us where she is sitting. All of these peoples, millions of people multitudes and nations and tongues are all here in the USA. The United Nations building is in NYC. We have more foreigners here in the US then Jerusalem or any other country.

Look into the future....... we can't only understand prophecy by looking out our window. When Babylon comes ALL other cities will be destroyed and yes including the goood ole USA. There will be no rivals, it is located in a wilderness a barren land.

The future is closer then you really know.

I guess you supposed Christ is going to return to the USA instead of Jerusalem?

Nope. He roars out of Zion according to Isaiah 3:16. Babylon is destroyed in Rev 18, right before Christ comes back with the bride In Rev 19.

 

[zeke37]

New Jerusalem is a good thing, not a bad thing.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.



Exactly. Something that is seen as religious but is steeped in paganism. Is anything in Jerusalem like this?

everything is deep down....they whored after other "gods' many, many times, and will again when the false Christ, lamb of Rev13:11 comes. he'll even look the part...miracles....lies...

Jerusalem, to me, leads to us.... all believers of God....Jew and Christian

Your missing the point. The city Babylon will give the appearence as New Jerusalem, a king, riches, and peace ect.... The inhabinants of the earth will believe Christ has came.

Mark

correct...the nation "babylon" does not exist now...but will soon enough IMO.

That sounds very fanciful, something that might be in a Kurt Cameron movie,

na, he does PRE TRIB FANTASY movies...scarry stuff...

and yet there is an entity that is now on earth that claims to act as God on earth.

there is more than one that claims to be God. the Pope does not...ask him yourself.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." - Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, "Cities Petrus Bertanous".[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
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you don't believe that do you? I'm sure the Pope does not. I am x-catholic here, and I do not even know one Catholic who would buy that.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth...[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
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[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]says who? Do the other denoms feel this way? Do you? Do I? WHO CARES IF A FEW THOUGHT THAT WAY MANY YEARS AGO...[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]he and his conclave may dictate Catholic policy, but that certainly does not extend passed his own denom...not even into all of it IMO...as most Catholics are too smart to think that he is like God....or God...they may think that he is God repersentive, like the Judges used to be in the OT.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
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[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]he himself says, under God....[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]He is the infallible ruler, [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]the founder of dogmas, [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]the author of and the judge of councils;[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]which ones did our current pope start?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]every man is faulable, including him, as he would attest.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth." Quoted in the New York Catechism.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
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well, that is malarqui, as he would say...your accusations are amazing....

it matters not what some group 1600+ years ago said, or last years NY times...let alone the NY Catechim...
could you provide a link, cause I'd like to read more about these accusations and see if they have any merrit......

do you believe it?

Does my mom who is Catholic believe it,
any of my family?
no....
the pope is a man, who is faulable and a sinner....

now, you (or I) might or might not believe that he is God representitive here on earth...a case can be made for that...but the other nonesense is just that, not saying that you started the nonesense...all of God's representatives that have been on earth have been faulable....save ONE.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God....dissolves, not by human but rather by divine authority....I am in all and above all, so that God Himself and I, the vicar of God, hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do...wherefore, if those things that I do be said not to be done of man, but of God, what do you make of me but God? Again, if prelates of the Church be called of Constantine for gods, I then being above all prelates, seem by this reason to be above all gods." Decretales Domini Gregori ix Translatione Episcoporum, (on the Transference of Bishops), title 7, chapter 3; Corpus Juris Canonice (2nd Leipzig ed., 1881), col. 99; (Paris, 1612), tom. 2, Decretales, col. 205 (while Innocent III was Pope).[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
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I wonder what our current Pope thinks of that...

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"Take care that we lose not that salvation, that life and breath which thou hast given us, for thou art our shepherd, thou art our physician, thou art our governor, thou art our husbandman, thou art finally another God on earth." Christopher Marcellus in Oration addressing Pope Julius II, in Fifth Lateran Council, Session IV (1512), Council Edition. Colm. Agrip. 1618, (Sacrorum Conciliorum, J.D. Mansi (ed.), Vol. 32, col. 761), (also quoted in History of the Councils, vol. XIV, col 109, by Labbe and Cossart).[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
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ouch...

Who from Jerusalem has ever made such claims? Is there any religious/political leader or entity from Jerusalem that has ever changed "times and laws" and made the claims of being God on earth? Even once?

future time...the AC will change many things...and there were leaders in Israel that changed some things, worship places, dates, times....evil kings/queens that killed the prophets and some of the rulers that were NOT from Jerusalem, but battled (spiritually or physically) Jerusalem (Israel), claimed to be a "god"..pharo etc.

 

[zeke37]

It isn't hard to understand symbolisim and being literal if a person even has minimal intelligence.

My bible states that the harlot is sitting on the water..."where the harlot sitteth". This isn't a game that God has put into play for us to guess where the harlot is really sitting. The bible emphatically tells us where she is sitting. All of these peoples, millions of people multitudes and nations and tongues are all here in the USA. The United Nations building is in NYC. We have more foreigners here in the US then Jerusalem or any other country.

first off, we are told what the waters are, and they are people....

furthermore....the bible does not say USA, nor imply it...
it implies a yet future nation....a league of nations making one big one...
a world dominant power that NO ONE can war with....
the USA has some pretty big enemies today, and are not untouchable, as this soon coming superpower will be...
who can war with the beast?
No one can if the beast is absolutely everywhere,
in every current day nation....a world political power...


and the yet future nation of Babyon is a copy/immitation of the yet future NEW Jerusalem that will come down from heaven.

think religion, false Christ, fooling the world with lies/false miracles/power...and being either in or out of that system...

The future is closer then you really know.

agreed, but it is not here yet, nor is Obama that antiChrist...that is a role that Satan will play himself....not posessing anyone, but playing it with his own body...counterfit to God/Christ.

Nope. He roars out of Zion according to Isaiah 3:16. Babylon is destroyed in Rev 18, right before Christ comes back with the bride In Rev 19.

You must realize that we are seeing the same picture from different angles...

Rev14-18 is all post trib....all Millennial.

Rv19 shows Christ's arrival, marking the beginning of that time....

IOW, Christ comes/arrives at the last trump, the 7th one.... seen from earth in Rev11...

His departure is shown in detail from heaven, in Rev19

 

[RND]

everything is deep down....they whored after other "gods' many, many times, and will again when the false Christ, lamb of Rev13:11 comes. he'll even look the part...miracles....lies...

Jerusalem, to me, leads to us.... all believers of God....Jew and Christian

How? How does Jerusalem lead any believer of Jesus? Do they do this now?

there is more than one that claims to be God. the Pope does not...ask him yourself.

I just gave you quotes that prove Rome believes the Pope is God's replacement on earth. Does anyone in Jerusalem do this?

you don't believe that do you? I'm sure the Pope does not. I am x-catholic here, and I do not even know one Catholic who would buy that.

It doesn't matter what you "buy" it's what the leadership thinks.
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
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[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]says who? Do the other denoms feel this way? Do you? Do I? WHO CARES IF A FEW THOUGHT THAT WAY MANY YEARS AGO...[/FONT][/FONT]

Rome says this and believes it.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]he and his conclave may dictate Catholic policy, but that certainly does not extend passed his own denom...not even into all of it IMO...as most Catholics are too smart to think that he is like God....or God...they may think that he is God repersentive, like the Judges used to be in the OT.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][/FONT]
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Sure it does! Protestants all around the world keep Rome's Sunday instead of God''s sabbath day. This is proof alone the acquiesce to her authority.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]he himself says, under God....[/FONT]

That he is God's replacement on earth.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]which ones did our current pope start?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]every man is faulable, including him, as he would attest.[/FONT][/FONT]

It doesn't matter what he starts it matters what he believes.
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][/FONT]
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well, that is malarqui, as he would say...your accusations are amazing....

it matters not what some group 1600+ years ago said, or last years NY times...let alone the NY Catechim...
could you provide a link, cause I'd like to read more about these accusations and see if they have any merrit......

do you believe it?

Does my mom who is Catholic believe it,
any of my family?
no....
the pope is a man, who is faulable and a sinner....

now, you (or I) might or might not believe that he is God representitive here on earth...a case can be made for that...but the other nonesense is just that, not saying that you started the nonesense...all of God's representatives that have been on earth have been faulable....save ONE.

The point you aren't addressing is that no one, again that's NO ONE in Jerusalem - no religious or political leader has made such a claim. Rome has and Rome believes what it says. What you think matters not to them.

I wonder what our current Pope thinks of that...

He wouldn't be Pope if he didn't believe it.

future time...the AC will change many things...and there were leaders in Israel that changed some things, worship places, dates, times....

Such as? Help me out. I'm willing to consider your claim if you provide some evidence.

evil kings/queens that killed the prophets and some of the rulers that were NOT from Jerusalem, but battled (spiritually or physically) Jerusalem (Israel), claimed to be a "god"..pharo etc.

Daniel 7:25 refers to a little horn that comes out of the terrible beast. How does this relate in any way with Jerusalem?

 

[RND]

How do these symbols represent Israel? Does Israel have anything at all that represents these symbols?

 

[zeke37]

so, the long and short of it is that you do not see an example in Biblical history, for the AC to come out of Israel/Jerusalem....because he changes times and laws....

so you think that this is the Pope, who himself did not change times and laws, but believes in the Catholic dogma so is guilty of the same?


the pope did not change any laws or times...not this one anyway...


but soon enough the AC will be here and he will change a bunch of things right...

IMO, he will control Rome/Eu and what it will become...a world system.....but that is by his appearance alone... then he makes his way to Jerusalem where he sets up shop....the abominator that maketh desolate.

that is when he changes the laws and times (sacrifice)...not literal animals of course, but our prayers...

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

first off, we are told what the waters are, and they are people....

furthermore....the bible does not say USA, nor imply it...
it implies a yet future nation....a league of nations making one big one...

I was an English major in school Zeke...stupid at everything else . It is describing where the harlot is sitting..."where the harlot sitteth". It is basically saying in plain old English that this harlot sits on many waters, and there are MANY PEOPLE, MULTITUDES, NATIONS AND TONGUES where this harlot is sitting. It is a BIG CITY. I can see how you would read that your way, but that is not what it is saying. You have got to "rightly divide" the Word here to get the correct meaning. It doesn't even make sense for a harlot to be sitting on people, multitudes, nations and tongues....waters YES. It doesn't even mention your rendering until later in that chapter. The harlot sitting on the many waters is in the first verse, then later describes what the waters are.
-----> Rev 17:1-2 ~ And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters: Important first verse in that chapter.
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

 

[RND]

so, the long and short of it is that you do not see an example in Biblical history, for the AC to come out of Israel/Jerusalem....because he changes times and laws....

Not only that but the prophecy surrounding the little horn shows conclusively that he comes out of (rises out of) the Roman empire.

so you think that this is the Pope, who himself did not change times and laws, but believes in the Catholic dogma so is guilty of the same?

I believe it is the apostate system itself - the Pope is merely a figurehead, it is the system itself that claims another way to Christ. Another "gate" or portal to God other than what is clearly shown in the Bible. That is what Babel or Babylon means.

the pope did not change any laws or times...not this one anyway...

The entire system of the RCC, throughout the centuries has changes "times and laws."

but soon enough the AC will be here and he will change a bunch of things right...

The spirit of AC was alive and well in Paul's day. Personally, I think it is a mistake for Christians to focus their belief that the AC will be a single man. It is a total system frankly.

IMO, he will control Rome/Eu and what it will become...a world system.....

Read then the Pope's latest encyclical. Read any of them for that matter. When you do there is little doubt that Pope's believe their are quite powerful as world leaders.

Papal Encyclicals Online

Read the latest: Caritas in veritate (Charity in Truth) Encyclical, June 29, 2009. Where the Pope outlines what Rome believes the New Economic order should be, how it should operate and who should be in control. Very NWO.

Watch as all the worlds religions prostrate themselves before the Pope:

YouTube - Closer and closer to the sunday Law: Pope Benedict XVI

but that is by his appearance alone... then he makes his way to Jerusalem where he sets up shop....the abominator that maketh desolate.

The only way this could happen is when the Pope finally sets up shop in Jerusalem. It has BTW it's own compound in Jerusalem and has for many, many years. The Papacy has already declared that it replaces God on earth.

that is when he changes the laws and times (sacrifice)...not literal animals of course, but our prayers...

He can't change anything we say to God.

 

[marlowe007]

These are symbolic references and not literal references.

But the symbolic names (Sodom & Egypt) point to a literal/physical city, which happens to be where Jesus was crucified.

I see a double standard here. You were more than willing to undermine the significance of Rev 11:8 by claiming that the reference to the location of Christ's crucifixion was merely "symbolic", yet when it comes to passages such as "having a golden cup in her hand" you interpret these literally as if they contain no symbolic meaning whatsoever.

I'm definitely no Catholic, but I find it incredibly ironic and hypocritical that Protestants have the audacity to abominate the RCC as the Scarlet Women using the scriptures that were canonized by that same institution (worse still, using quotes from the Roman Catholic Church Fathers to support the idea that the Pope is the Antichrist!). Without the church of Rome, heretics like Marcion would've had their way and there'd be no OT or book of Revelation to speak of. Whether you like it or not, the authority of your Bible comes from Rome.

 

[zeke37]

I was an English major in school Zeke...stupid at everything else . It is describing where the harlot is sitting..."where the harlot sitteth". It is basically saying in plain old English that this harlot sits on many waters, and there are MANY PEOPLE, MULTITUDES, NATIONS AND TONGUES where this harlot is sitting. It is a BIG CITY.

Well nana....Not in my opinion...it is a big nation, a whole world wide city...that is not yet in existance...

It rises from the people, as the NWO does in Rev13. The harlot is many people and nations and tongues....Christians....supposed to be virgins for Christ, but a re harlots for Satan's false lamb of Rev13:11.

...I can see how you would read that your way, but that is not what it is saying. You have got to "rightly divide" the Word here to get the correct meaning.

really? so do you....remember!!! Division means accepting what God tells us something means...like the waters where the harlot sitteth

It doesn't even make sense for a harlot to be sitting on people, multitudes, nations and tongues....

sure it does, if THEY are the harlot themselves...the harlot is Christians, so the harlot sits on the Christians...and their sysetm at the time, which will be Babylon = CONFUSION

waters YES.

It doesn't even mention your rendering until later in that chapter. The harlot sitting on the many waters is in the first verse, then later describes what the waters are.[/color]

water is defined for us...God says in verse 15 that ....

15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

so, the waters that we read of as the harlot, are really peoples, nations, tongues...simple.

----->

Rev 17:1-2 ~ And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters: Important first verse in that chapter.
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Christians are the harlot, which sits upon many waters....Rev18:4 and Rev19:6-8 teach us more of the harlot....some come out of her...and are considered virgins for Christ again...

the many waters of Rev19:6 are even made ready to wear the pure white robes....those are the elect on earth...making themselves ready to join the dead in Christ as first fruits when He comes here at the last trump.

 

[zeke37]

Not only that but the prophecy surrounding the little horn shows conclusively that he comes out of (rises out of) the Roman empire.

No, that is your speculation....there may be merit to it, but it is still opinion only.

I believe it is the apostate system itself - the Pope is merely a figurehead, it is the system itself that claims another way to Christ. Another "gate" or portal to God other than what is clearly shown in the Bible. That is what Babel or Babylon means.

What is the other way that they try to make peole go through? My RCC experience teaches me personally that you are incorrect here....while I do not agree with much of the RCC doctrine, they do indeed believe in the Blood of Christ and that we MUST go through Him to get to The Father.

The entire system of the RCC, throughout the centuries has changes "times and laws."

as will the NWO that is soon coming...even more so....

The spirit of AC was alive and well in Paul's day. Personally, I think it is a mistake for Christians to focus their belief that the AC will be a single man. It is a total system frankly.

he is a single man, an angelic man cast from heaven to the earth for a SHORT SEASON to overcome the Christians...fool them, trick them into thinking that he is Jesus returned...he is Satan himself, the son of Perdition Rev12/17/20

I do not know how you can't see the individual lamb of Rewv13:11?

Read then the Pope's latest encyclical. Read any of them for that matter. When you do there is little doubt that Pope's believe their are quite powerful as world leaders.

and they are....the world see's them as such...doesn't mean that he thinks he is God on earth

The only way this could happen is when the Pope finally sets up shop in Jerusalem. It has BTW it's own compound in Jerusalem and has for many, many years. The Papacy has already declared that it replaces God on earth.

it is not going to b the Pope...it will be the antiChrist/Satan himself....and he will not be running the RCC, but EVERY Religion....all of them....even outside of Christianity...

He can't change anything we say to God.

the AC will claim to be God...Jesus returned...even look the part

the Christians shall believe his flood of lies, and be considered harlots instead of virgins for Christ...

they will pray to Satan, thinking it is God.

that is how he will change what we say to God....he will be God to many, in trickory...in deceit....lies....


but the Christians and the rest, will accept him, and actually think he is Jesus here on earth, hence pray to him ....which is what the mark of thebeast is al about...breaking the first Commandment...Ex13, Deut11

chow!!!

 

[RND]

But the symbolic names (Sodom & Egypt) point to a literal/physical city, which happens to be where Jesus was crucified.

Not in my mind they don't. They point to the actual spirit that can rise up to even crucify the Son of God. Sodom is known for its wickedness and Egypt for keeping us in the bondage or slavery of sin. This is the same spirit that was able to crucify Jesus. Note that people were called out of these two places because of these things. Christians today are being called out of these "spirtual" cities.

I see a double standard here. You were more than willing to undermine the significance of Rev 11:8 by claiming that the reference to the location of Christ's crucifixion was merely "symbolic", yet when it comes to passages such as "having a golden cup in her hand" you interpret these literally as if they contain no symbolic meaning whatsoever.

I'm sorry you feel that way. There is certainly no "double standard" going on here.

When John wrote his vision that there would be a woman (a church), riding on a beast (a temporal political power), wearing purple and scarlet (sign of priestly royalty), cheaply veneered (decked) in gold and precious stones (signs of the righteousness of God), and having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication (sign of her false wine i.e. blood of the sacrifice) he was indeed writing quite symbolically just as Daniel did in his visions.

Just because the symbolism points to something doesn't mean it is untrue. You assume I think that there must be two different standards of symbolism which just isn't the case.

I'm definitely no Catholic, but I find it incredibly ironic and hypocritical that Protestants have the audacity to abominate the RCC as the Scarlet Women using the scriptures that were canonized by that same institution (worse still, using quotes from the Roman Catholic Church Fathers to support the idea that the Pope is the Antichrist!).

Well that would indeed be a shame considering virtually all the reformers (I assume you are a protestant) believed that Rome was the antichrist. What you are trying to equate here, in my mind, is to say that pointing out who the bank robber was in a line-up is wrong and hypocritical just because he bought Girl Scout cookies from your daughter once!

The fact that the RCC canonized the scriptures is certainly important but just as God can raise up sons od Abraham for himself out of rocks so too could God have raised His word through any entity. Essentially what I see you saying is that it was the church that did these things instead of God's Holy Spirit.

Without the church of Rome, heretics like Marcion would've had their way and there'd be no OT or book of Revelation to speak of.

So too without them scientist's would never have been persecuted for believing the world was round and not flat! Without them an estimated 70 million would not have died through various persecutions and crusades.

If you are going to critize at least be ballanced.

Whether you like it or not, the authority of your Bible comes from Rome.

Nein, it comes directly from God. The Bible was written 300+ years before it was ever complied as the Bible , surely this was God's doing. The fact God allowed it to come through the church is quite noteworthy and it certainly says more for God's character than the church's.

 

[RND]

No, that is your speculation....there may be merit to it, but it is still opinion only.

Dan 7:23 ¶ Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth (see Dan. 7:7), which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

This is Rome. It was the fourth beast. Virtually every Bible scholar worth his weight agrees with this.

What is the other way that they try to make peole go through? My RCC experience teaches me personally that you are incorrect here....while I do not agree with much of the RCC doctrine, they do indeed believe in the Blood of Christ and that we MUST go through Him to get to The Father.

Some do, and of this there can be little doubt. I have absolutely no doubt that there are a multitude of sincere Catholics that love the Lord with all their heart, mind and every fiber of their being that are simply mislead. This is no reason not to tell the truth about what scripture says and has prophesied. They are commanded to "Come out of her my people" just as much as you and I are.

as will the NWO that is soon coming...even more so....

No doubt! We are seeing this now. Sunday laws are springing up in many different countries.

he is a single man, an angelic man cast from heaven to the earth for a SHORT SEASON to overcome the Christians...fool them, trick them into thinking that he is Jesus returned...he is Satan himself, the son of Perdition Rev12/17/20

I do not know how you can't see the individual lamb of Rewv13:11?

Cast from heaven to earth? So God kicks the AC out of heaven? Didn't this already happen (Rev 12:7)?

As for Revelation 13:11 this is referring specifically to the United States.

Rev 13:11 ¶ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Horns represent power. What are the two things that the US has relied upon for it's power? This beast came out of the earth, not the sea. This is symbolic of an unpopulated area. This nation acts very much like a lamb, like Jesus, but speaks (how does a country speak? Through it's leaders) very much like a dragon (devil).

and they are....the world see's them as such...doesn't mean that he thinks he is God on earth

The state that the Pope is God on earth. That he has the power to dispense with Biblical laws. Do you not see the similarity here?

"The Pope is of great authority and power, that he is able to modify, declare, or interpret even divine laws. The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth..." Lucius Ferraris, in "Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica", Volume V, article on "Papa, Article II", titled "Concerning the extent of Papal dignity, authority, or dominion and infallibility", #30, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition.

“Christ entrusted His office to the chief pontiff;... but all power in heaven and in earth has been given to Christ;... therefore the chief pontiff, who is His vicar, will have this power.” Corpus Juris, chap. 1, column 29, translated from a gloss on the words Porro Subesse Romano Pontiff.

“The Pope’s authority is unlimited, incalculable; it can strike, as Innocent III says, wherever sin is; it can punish every one; it allows no appeal and is itself Sovereign Caprice; for the Pope carries, according to the expression of Boniface VIII, all rights in the Shrine of his breast. As he has now become infallible, he can by the use of the little word, 'orbi,' (which means that he turns himself round to the whole Church) make every rule, every doctrine, every demand, into a certain and incontestable article of Faith. No right can stand against him, no personal or corporate liberty; or as the Canonists put it -- 'The tribunal of God and of the pope is one and the same.'” Ignaz von Dollinger, in “A Letter Addressed to the Archbishop of Munich”, 1871 (quoted in The Acton Newman Relations (Fordham University Press), by MacDougall, p 119-120).

"We may according to the fullness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God....dissolves, not by human but rather by divine authority....I am in all and above all, so that God Himself and I, the vicar of God, hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do...Wherefore, no marvel, if it be in my power to dispense with all things, yea with the precepts of Christ." Decretales Domini Gregori ix Translatione Episcoporum, (on the Transference of Bishops), title 7, chapter 3; Corpus Juris Canonice (2nd Leipzig ed., 1881), col. 99; (Paris, 1612), tom. 2, Decretales, col. 205 (while Innocent III was Pope).

"Therefore the decision of the Pope and the decision of God constitute one decision....Since, therefore, an appeal is always made from an inferior judge to a superior, just as no one is greater than himself, so no appeal holds when made from the Pope to God, because there is one consistory of the Pope himself and of God Himself." Augustinus Triumphus, in Summa de Potestate Ecclesiastica, 1483, questio 6. Latin.

it is not going to b the Pope...it will be the antiChrist/Satan himself....and he will not be running the RCC, but EVERY Religion....all of them....even outside of Christianity...

The RCC basically runs all churches now-a-days anyway. Notice how all the religious leaders bow before him.

the AC will claim to be God...Jesus returned...even look the part

Which is what the church has already done.

the Christians shall believe his flood of lies, and be considered harlots instead of virgins for Christ...

Which is what the majority already believes.

they will pray to Satan, thinking it is God.

Which some do already.

that is how he will change what we say to God....he will be God to many, in trickory...in deceit....lies....

Which is already happening.

but the Christians and the rest, will accept him, and actually think he is Jesus here on earth, hence pray to him ....

Which is what many do already.

which is what the mark of thebeast is al about...breaking the first Commandment...Ex13, Deut11

Which is what many do already when they bow to Isis, er Mary.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

I see a double standard here. You were more than willing to undermine the significance of Rev 11:8 by claiming that the reference to the location of Christ's crucifixion was merely "symbolic", yet when it comes to passages such as "having a golden cup in her hand" you interpret these literally as if they contain no symbolic meaning whatsoever.

Actually I see the golden cup as the burning torch in the Statue of Liberty's hand, and I believe that John saw it that way also.

I'm definitely no Catholic, but I find it incredibly ironic and hypocritical that Protestants have the audacity to abominate the RCC as the Scarlet Women using the scriptures that were canonized by that same institution (worse still, using quotes from the Roman Catholic Church Fathers to support the idea that the Pope is the Antichrist!). Without the church of Rome, heretics like Marcion would've had their way and there'd be no OT or book of Revelation to speak of. Whether you like it or not, the authority of your Bible comes from Rome.

The Popes tend to stand and wave at the window and bless the crowds, or ride around in the Popemobile. The Antichrist is going to have an army and wage war. Uh, I think that his robes and staff would get in the way, and all the Popes have been pretty old men. The Anti-Christ participates and is active, Naw, Rome and the Pope aren't it.

 

[RND]

Actually I see the golden cup as the burning torch in the Statue of Liberty's hand, and I believe that John saw it that way also.

How do the other attributes such as the purple and scarlet, and being decked decked with gold and precious stones and pearls point to the Statue of Liberty?

What are the abominations and filthiness of her fornication that are in the cup of the Statue of Liberty?

The Popes tend to stand and wave at the window and bless the crowds, or ride around in the Popemobile. The Antichrist is going to have an army and wage war.

Similar to the one's the Popes were able to muster during the Crusades?

Uh, I think that his robes and staff would get in the way, and all the Popes have been pretty old men. The Anti-Christ participates and is active, Naw, Rome and the Pope aren't it.

Then who you think it might be? Barrack Obama? John McCain? Some other political figure?

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

How do the other attributes such as the purple and scarlet, and being decked decked with gold and precious stones and pearls point to the Statue of Liberty?

It doesn't point to the statue itself. It points to the harlotry of the city. The statue (woman) that is the symbol of the harlot. It's the city that is clothed in these things....Rev 18:16 ~ And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and PURPLE, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

What are the abominations and filthiness of her fornication that are in the cup of the Statue of Liberty?

It's the symbolisim of Babylon again. Her cup is full of every evil imaginable.

Similar to the one's the Popes were able to muster during the Crusades?

Well, I'm 59 years old, and I have never seen a young Pope in this time.

Then who you think it might be? Barrack Obama? John McCain? Some other political figure?

Obama. I have believed this for over 4 years ever since the speech that he gave in 2004 at the Democratic convention. Not many accept that belief, but I am hanging onto it like a pit bull because God showed me that it was him. I have never believed that anyone else was the Antichrist....not even George Bush

 

[RND]

It doesn't point to the statue itself. It points to the harlotry of the city. The statue (woman) that is the symbol of the harlot. It's the city that is clothed in these things....Rev 18:16 ~ And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and PURPLE, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

OK. Then how do these other elements point to the city of NY?

It's the symbolisim of Babylon again. Her cup is full of every evil imaginable.

Well, I didn't ask that. I asked, "What are the abominations and filthiness of her fornication that are in the cup of the Statue of Liberty?"

What are these things? Are they Broadway theater? Times Square and the dropping of the ball? What specificatially are these abominations and filthiness of her fornication that are in the cup of the Statue of Liberty? Obvisouly it says these things are in the golden cup and you think the torch of the Statue of Liberty is a cup and not a torch, so please, help me understand and expound a bit.

Well, I'm 59 years old, and I have never seen a young Pope in this time.

That doesn't mean he can't lead an army.

Obama. I have believed this for over 4 years ever since the speech that he gave in 2004 at the Democratic convention. Not many accept that belief, but I am hanging onto it like a pit bull because God showed me that it was him. I have never believed that anyone else was the Antichrist....not even George Bush

Do you pray for Obama? God obviously put the man in office for a reason.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

OK. Then how do these other elements point to the city of NY?

NY is the hub of the financial market here and is where our stock market is located. The United Nations are there also. Look at what garbage was going on with wall street that got this nation and the world in collapse of the economy from evil greed. The other 9 nations that are going to rise up are going to come out of the United Nations based in NY.

Well, I didn't ask that. I asked, "What are the abominations and filthiness of her fornication that are in the cup of the Statue of Liberty?"
What are these things? Are they Broadway theater? Times Square and the dropping of the ball? What specificatially are these abominations and filthiness of her fornication that are in the cup of the Statue of Liberty? Obvisouly it says these things are in the golden cup and you think the torch of the Statue of Liberty is a cup and not a torch, so please, help me understand and expound a bit.

Homosexuality is accepted in this nation...they were allowed to marry at one point. Abortion is not even a serious problem if you aren't a Christian, removal of anything to do with God here because some foreign religion or Atheist got anything to do with Him banned. When giving testimony in court you can't even say, "so help me God" like before when sworn in. Manger scenes have to be removed from lawns at Christmas in many places because it offends the HEATHENS! Murder of children is becoming a serious problem here. It's on the news almost every day. Our children can be taught about every heathenistic religion, and the books are in the school library. They don't teach you about Jesus Christ. My Nephew was learning about jihad in high school, and they had a mock jihad going on in the classroom that they were being graded on. My sister pulled him out when she found out. The thing that makes me madder then some of this...besides the kids being murdered, is how we the Christians have allowed this to happen over the years and didn't fight against the removal of anything to do with God. The church has become a pathetic, lazy, sorry excuse for a bride!!!
This nation was founded on the faith and principles of a Holy God, and look what we have become. We are definitely a habitation for devils and every foul spirit....Rev 18:2 ~ And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

That doesn't mean he can't lead an army.

He would have to be younger then what has been in there. He would need a nap during battle

Do you pray for Obama? God obviously put the man in office for a reason.

NO!!!!! Yes, he put him in office to fulfill prophecy. Everyone is predestinated at birth...even Obama for his role...Eph 1:11 ~ In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

This nation is going down in judgment!!!!

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I think this nation is on the road to judgment but not because it is Mystery Babylon/the harlot of Rev 17/18. I think this nation is being put in it's end-times position.

Isaiah 47 tells us exactly who Mystery Babylon is...it is much bigger than the US.