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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
RND
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MUCH Tribulation
polus,pol-oos'; including the forms from the alternate pollos; (singular) much (in any respect) or (plural) many; neuter (singular) as adverb largely; neuter (plural) as adverb or noun often, mostly, largely :- abundant, + altogether, common, + far (passed, spent), (+ be of a) great (age, deal, -ly, while), long, many, much, oft (-en [-times]), plenteous, sore, straitly. Compare Greek 4118 (pleistos), Greek 4119 (pleion).
IS not the tham as
GREAT Tribulation
megas,meg'-as; [including the prolonged forms, feminine megale, plural megaloi, etc.; compare also Greek 3176 (megistos), Greek 3187 (meizon)]; big (literal or figurative, in a very wide application) :- (+ fear) exceedingly, great (-est), high, large, loud, mighty, + (be) sore (afraid), strong, × to years.
MUCH tribulation does NOT equate to the same as The Great Tribulation
Nope, you are not reading what is being said and simply put are in the wrong room.
this is the equivalent of hair-splitting.
Right, languages - not unintelligible gibberish.
What are the gifts of God you speak of?
Mid-trib? Oh, that's even worse!
What was the question?
You're welcome.
Are you speaking of yourself?
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B1inHim
LOVE one another
RND
Hair splitting?
There is a reason why the TWO words are different
The Much Tribulation that you are talking about is expected for any Blood bought child of GOD.
The Great Tribulation is an expectation for those who plan on going through it and unknown to those who will actually go through it.
I read up on your SDA theology and it is impressive. As are some of the other denominations represented here.
However, your attempts at quick wit towards my request are not appreciated. Cute, but cute doesnt look good on a man speaking with another man.
I am in no way shape or form attempting to cause discord here between you and I.
What I know as a mater of fact is that the Body of Christ is caught up before the wrath of GOD is poured out. That places us being harpazoed out of here sometime during the first half of Daniels 70 weeks.
It would do you well to read the entire post before you say anything.
If yall are correct in your understanding to us in Jesus having to go through the entire Great Tribulation then I would suspect that all who believe this will maintain a readiness beyond a person who just believes in Jesus. That is good and when we get there before the opening of the seventh seal, I will NOT say, I told you so
The gifts of GOD
POWER Gifts;
Gift of faith (not to be mistaken for regular faith),
Working of miracles,
Gifts if healings (not singular),
INFORMATION Gifts;
Word of wisdom (something that will happen in the future),
Word of knowledge (something that is happening now or before now that was not known by the one who this word was given to),
Discerning of spirits (not to be mistaken for carnal, natural discernment)
Speaking Gifts;
Tongues (not a language that is learned or known naturally by the one speaking)
Interpretation of tongues (the equivalent of the next gift)
Prophecy
Those are the gifts that I asked you about not the fruit of the Spirit
ARE they still in full operation in the Body of Christ or have they ceased with the death of the apostles and the closing of the cannon of scripture?
Hair splitting?
There is a reason why the TWO words are different
The Much Tribulation that you are talking about is expected for any Blood bought child of GOD.
The Great Tribulation is an expectation for those who plan on going through it and unknown to those who will actually go through it.
I read up on your SDA theology and it is impressive. As are some of the other denominations represented here.
However, your attempts at quick wit towards my request are not appreciated. Cute, but cute doesnt look good on a man speaking with another man.
I am in no way shape or form attempting to cause discord here between you and I.
What I know as a mater of fact is that the Body of Christ is caught up before the wrath of GOD is poured out. That places us being harpazoed out of here sometime during the first half of Daniels 70 weeks.
It would do you well to read the entire post before you say anything.
If yall are correct in your understanding to us in Jesus having to go through the entire Great Tribulation then I would suspect that all who believe this will maintain a readiness beyond a person who just believes in Jesus. That is good and when we get there before the opening of the seventh seal, I will NOT say, I told you so
The gifts of GOD
POWER Gifts;
Gift of faith (not to be mistaken for regular faith),
Working of miracles,
Gifts if healings (not singular),
INFORMATION Gifts;
Word of wisdom (something that will happen in the future),
Word of knowledge (something that is happening now or before now that was not known by the one who this word was given to),
Discerning of spirits (not to be mistaken for carnal, natural discernment)
Speaking Gifts;
Tongues (not a language that is learned or known naturally by the one speaking)
Interpretation of tongues (the equivalent of the next gift)
Prophecy
These are the Gifts of GOD according to the Word given to us
By
Apostle Paul in I Cor 12.
Those are the gifts that I asked you about not the fruit of the Spirit
ARE they still in full operation in the Body of Christ or have they ceased with the death of the apostles and the closing of the cannon of scripture?
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RND
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And there is the rub. The 70 week prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 has been completed in the person of Jesus Christ. It is "past history" not for "future fulfillment." Calendars don't have 2,000 year gaps and the "gap theory" of the dispensationalist cannot be adequately explained by them.
Ready for what? Should I store a boatload of food and water in hopes that I'll somehow have enough to sustain me through the tough times or should I simply trust in the words of Jesus?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence [shall be] the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters [shall be] sure.
These are different attributes of the Christian. Information gifts? Power gifts?
The gifts you mention are not given to everyone. Some are given certain gifts, others are given other gifts.
Spiritual gifts.
Yes, they are still given by the power of the Holy Spirit and they are still to be tested by that same Holy Spirit. For example when you say of tongues "not a language that is learned or known naturally by the one speaking" that is directly opposite of Paul further admonition in 1 Corinthians 14. Speaking gibberish that no one but you can interpret or hope to understand is not from God.
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Big Mouth Nana
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Hi good4u
You can't get any closer then this lol!! This is the harlot of Babylon which is symbolic of the USA, and she just happens to be in NY's harbor.The Anti-Christ is here, and has risen right out of Babylon...the USA. Sad that many don't recognize him as yet.
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RND
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Hi good4u
The Anti-Christ is here, and has risen right out of Babylon...the USA. Sad that many don't recognize him as yet.
Funny how the reformers, to a man, knew it wasn't NYC - but it was Rome.
1. Tertullian (155–222): He spoke about the future breakup of the Roman Empire, "whose separation into ten kingdoms will bring on antichrist." (The division of the Roman Empire was not completed until a.d. 476.)
2. Cyril of Jerusalem (315–386): "There shall arise, at the same time, ten kingdoms of the Romans at different places, indeed, the reigning all of them at the same time. After them, the eleventh will be antichrist, who, through magical wickedness, will seize the power of the Romans." The Papacy not only took Rome as the seat of its authority, but even took the title of Pontifex Maximus from pagan Rome for its supreme bishop, the pope.
3. Jerome (347–420): "Says the apostle [Paul in the second epistle to the Thessalonians], ‘Unless the Roman Empire should first be desolated, and antichrist proceed, Christ will not come.’"
4. Augustine, bishop of Hippo (540–604): "I say confidently therefore, that whosoever calls himself Universal Bishop, or even desires in his pride to be called such, is the forerunner of antichrist."
"Antichrist, the predicted murderer of the Saints, hath already appeared in his true character, seated monarchally in the seven-hilled city." - In 1120 or 1160 A.D., A Treatise Concerning Antichrist identified the Pope of Rome as the Antichrist. George Faber identifies this as a production of Peter the Valdo (Faber, pp. 379-384).
The Antichrist and the Protestant Reformation - White Horse Media
NYC didn't invent it's own laws, or change the Biblical laws of God, it didn't invent own feasts, it's own worship, and it wears nothing that is purple and scarlet.
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Big Mouth Nana
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Funny how Rome doesn't fit the description of Babylon at all in Rev 17 and especially18...which are both describing the same Babylon.
That is one of the big problems with conjecture. Man listening to man instead of God....and that's NOT funny.
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RND
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Name another entity on earth - like NYC I guess, that wears purple and scarlet. Just one.
Well then, I suppose you wouldn't mind doing an expose using nothing but scripture that details how the 'little horn' in Daniel 7 and 8 is NYC.
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B1inHim
LOVE one another
Name another entity on earth - like NYC I guess, that wears purple and scarlet. Just one.
Well then, I suppose you wouldn't mind doing an expose using nothing but scripture that details how the 'little horn' in Daniel 7 and 8 is NYC.
OH OH OH I know this one...
the USA as a whole that is in cahoots with the one you are refering to... the entire kabootal of the USA is all that is said about this "babylon"...
We completely and uncomprimisingly fit the shoe that is spoken of.
PERIOD...
NYC?
The entire USA and it's abominations that are listed...
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RND
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Babylon.
Babel. Bab = gate. El = God.
Bab-el.
The gate of God.
This beast provides a different gate or portal to God. The United States doesn't do this. It does however make it possible for the beast to do just that. The US builds an image of the beast.
United States in Bible Prophecy
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Big Mouth Nana
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Uh, let me ask you RND, just how many merchants that trade with Rome and ship captains, and those who sail in ships would be crying over Babylons burning if it was Rome... Rev 18:15-18? Are they all Catholics
The USA imports and exports with more countries then Rome ever thought about. This nation has made other countries rich!! You rarely ever see made in the USA anymore, but you darn sure see made in Indonesia, China, Japan, Taiwan, Mexico etc.The USA is a melting pot with all of the different nationalities, so BABEL fits like God confounded the languages at the Tower of Babel. Also, the Statue of Liberty is the first thing that a person sees when coming into NY's harbor....the gate...but not to our God...Babylons God. In the Greek that definition is gate of the gods, not God.
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RND
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Uh, let me ask you RND, just how many merchants that trade with Rome and ship captains, and those who sail in ships would be crying over Babylons burning if it was Rome... Rev 18:15-18? Are they all Catholics
How many would do the same if NYC fell into the East River tomorrow? The point being is that Rev 18:15-18 is symbolic language and not literal. It is very reminiscent of the merchants that cozzied up with the King of Tyre (Satan) as he betrayed Israel.
Isa 23:8 Who hath taken this counsel against Tyre, the crowning [city], whose merchants [are] princes, whose traffickers [are] the honourable of the earth?
The confusion today isn't about language but spirituality. One system preaches a different portal (Bab-el) to God than what is taught in the Bible. How does NYC do this?
It's an image correct? So then it would be consistent with the "beast" (the temporal power) that builds an image to the first beast of Revelation 13. Bottom line is that none of the prohetic images of Daniel point to the United States and NYC. None.
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B1inHim
LOVE one another
Uh, let me ask you RND, just how many merchants that trade with Rome and ship captains, and those who sail in ships would be crying over Babylons burning if it was Rome... Rev 18:15-18? Are they all Catholics
The USA is a melting pot with all of the different nationalities, so BABEL fits like God confounded the languages at the Tower of Babel. Also, the Statue of Liberty is the first thing that a person sees when coming into NY's harbor....the gate...but not to our God...Babylons God. In the Greek that definition is gate of the gods, not God.
There are not many who would cry over that spilt milk... nor is there enough time to re-initiate the OLD Babylon into the magnificence that the Word says about the Revelation Babylon...
RND is not going to be the final answer dew to the fact that his obstinance and denominational attitude keep him from seeing...sympolic?
IT is metaphoric... and the USA fits the shoe
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zeke37
IMO...
where was Christ crucified?
isn't that where the physical Babylon (meaning confusion) is?
Jerusalem right?
Didn't they wear scarlet robes in the temple? Isn't this a reference to the priests (those leading the people) in ancient Israel...a type for us today and our priests/pastors...
isn't that where the physical Babylon (meaning confusion) is?
Jerusalem right?
Didn't they wear scarlet robes in the temple? Isn't this a reference to the priests (those leading the people) in ancient Israel...a type for us today and our priests/pastors...
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