Athena returned the Spear

[Nathan Poe]

Athena returned the spear:

With these words, he (Achilles) hefted his long-shadowed spear,
then hurled it. However, anticipating the throw,
splendid Hector saw it coming and evaded it
by crouching down, so the bronze spear flew over him,
then struck the ground. But Pallas Athena grabbed it
and returned it to Achilles, without Hector,
that shepherd of his people, seeing what she'd done.

Was this done in spite of any physical sciences, or with respect to the physical sciences?

 

[random325nicaea]

Athena returned the spear:



Was this done in spite of any physical sciences, or with respect to the physical sciences?

OOOH don't forget she rigged it so that hectors spear carrier could supply him with a fresh spear!

 

[AV1611VET]

Athena returned the spear:



Was this done in spite of any physical sciences, or with respect to the physical sciences?

If by this thread, you're intimating that the Bible is a book of mythology, let me ask you this.

Were the Jews entitled to "go home" in --- say --- 1700?

Or were they already "home" in their respective Ghettos?

If they were 'nomads' living in Egypt, were they 'nomads' living in Europe?

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Remember how hundreds of thousands of Israelites wandered in the desert for forty years according to the Bible, but yet there has yet to be found ANY trace of that actually ever happening?

Did this happen in spite of the physical evidence, or has it just not been found yet?

And yes, Nathan's point is that just because it's written down, doesn't make it true. No matter how many times it's been copied over the centuries.

 

[AV1611VET]

Remember how hundreds of thousands of Israelites wandered in the desert for forty years according to the Bible, but yet there has yet to be found ANY trace of that actually ever happening?

Did this happen in spite of the physical evidence, or has it just not been found yet?

And yes, Nathan's point is that just because it's written down, doesn't make it true. No matter how many times it's been copied over the centuries.

And that brings up my point --- were the Jews entitled to that tract of real estate they called, in a book, 'home' for so many centuries; and then, following the Diaspora of AD 70, were they entitled to look back and call it 'home' over the next two millennia?

If the Bible is just a book of myths, then the Jews were or were not entitled to that land?

 

[shinbits]

Athena returned the spear:



Was this done in spite of any physical sciences, or with respect to the physical sciences?

There's no reason to believe this happened. The Bible, however, has achaeologic and historical evidence to back up some of the events in the Bible.

 

[gaara4158]

And that brings up my point --- were the Jews entitled to that tract of real estate they called, in a book, 'home' for so many centuries; and then, following the Diaspora of AD 70, were they entitled to look back and call it 'home' over the next two millennia?

If the Bible is just a book of myths, then the Jews were or were not entitled to that land?

You're catching on quickly. Correct, nobody is "divinely entitled" to any bit of land. If you can conquer it, you can have it. If it helps to tell your people that God said it's rightfully theirs, knock yourself out.

 

[gaara4158]

There's no reason to believe this happened. The Bible, however, has achaeologic and historical evidence to back up some of the events in the Bible.

some being the key word. The alleged miracles that would have been done in spite of our understanding of physical laws, however, remain unsubstantiated.

 

[AV1611VET]

You're catching on quickly. Correct, nobody is "divinely entitled" to any bit of land. If you can conquer it, you can have it. If it helps to tell your people that God said it's rightfully theirs, knock yourself out.

So they were entitled to it, not by divine fiat, but by virtue of the fact that they invaded it, right?

If that's so, then was Adolf Hitler entitled to it?

What I'm trying to do here, is show how thinking the Bible is a book of myths, and that the Hebrews were nothing more than nomads to start off with, can lead to anti-Zionism.

But I have a feeling no one is going to give me a straight answer.

 

[shinbits]

some being the key word. The alleged miracles that would have been done in spite of our understanding of physical laws, however, remain unsubstantiated.

Be that as it may, some evidence exists for the Bible, while none exist for the example in the OP.

 

[Belk]

Be that as it may, some evidence exists for the Bible, while none exist for the example in the OP.

Uh, the city of Troy is a rather large piece of evidence and every bit as valid a proof of the Iliad as Jerusalem is of the bible.

 

[Hespera]

And that brings up my point --- were the Jews entitled to that tract of real estate they called, in a book, 'home' for so many centuries; and then, following the Diaspora of AD 70, were they entitled to look back and call it 'home' over the next two millennia?

If the Bible is just a book of myths, then the Jews were or were not entitled to that land?

People are entitled to what land they can take by force. Whose land are you living on?

Course you let someone else do the dirty work, kinda like not killing your own meat.

Isnt it so much nicer if you dont have to see the blood? And if you can say its manifest destiny, gods will, chosen people, entitled to land and all that imperialist trappery?

No call to conscience then!

 

[AV1611VET]

Uh, the city of Troy is a rather large piece of evidence and every bit as valid a proof of the Iliad as Jerusalem is of the bible.

Ya --- and Humpty-Dumpty validates the Great Wall of China --- right?

 

[gaara4158]

Ya --- and Humpty-Dumpty validates the Great Wall of China --- right?

The Great Wall of China validates Humpty Dumpty by your logic, actually.

 

[Hespera]

There's no reason to believe this happened. The Bible, however, has achaeologic and historical evidence to back up some of the events in the Bible.

Absolutely, yes. Egypt really is there, so is the dead sea so places mentioned are usually are always real. As for the heroic and magical events that only happened in the old days? hmm.

There is also the city of Athens, and Troy. Nobody able to throw spears that normal men cant even lift, not any more. hmm to that too.

The way to read something like the bible or the Iliad is as a historical novel. With a lot of magic realism tossed in.

(Magic realism, or magical realism, is an artistic genre in which magical elements or illogical scenarios appear in an otherwise realistic or even "normal" setting. It has been widely used in relation to literature, art, and film.)

 

[gaara4158]

So they were entitled to it, not by divine fiat, but by virtue of the fact that they invaded it, right?

If that's so, then was Adolf Hitler entitled to it?

What I'm trying to do here, is show how thinking the Bible is a book of myths, and that the Hebrews were nothing more than nomads to start off with, can lead to anti-Zionism.

But I have a feeling no one is going to give me a straight answer.

Just because you conquer it doesn't mean you're "entitled" to it. If you want to get really technical, nobody is "entitled" to anything. We simply work the system to obtain what we want, whether it be through warfare, trade, or theft. But if you obtain it, it is, in fact, yours until someone else takes it. Governments and laws keep this rather barbaric system under control by doling out punishments to people who obtain things by illegal means, but all is fair in love and war.

In their own way, the Zionists are "conquering" the land through religious negotiations rather than violent warfare. So if they can convince everyone that they deserve the land, it's theirs. It doesn't matter by what means the land is obtained... it simply needs to be obtained, and it's yours.

How's that for a straight answer? I encourage you to abandon your "feelings" as they've proven dead wrong lately.

 

[shinbits]

Uh, the city of Troy is a rather large piece of evidence and every bit as valid a proof of the Iliad as Jerusalem is of the bible.

Not at all. In addition to historical and archaeological evidence, there's also prophetic evidence. The Bible mentions many times that Israel will always be a nation that people want to attack and destroy, but that Israel will always prevail. History has shown this to be true. This pwns the Illiad big time.

 

[shinbits]

Absolutely, yes. Egypt really is there, so is the dead sea so places mentioned are usually are always real. As for the heroic and magical events that only happened in the old days? hmm.

There is also the city of Athens, and Troy. Nobody able to throw spears that normal men cant even lift, not any more. hmm to that too.

The way to read something like the bible or the Iliad is as a historical novel. With a lot of magic realism tossed in.

(Magic realism, or magical realism, is an artistic genre in which magical elements or illogical scenarios appear in an otherwise realistic or even "normal" setting. It has been widely used in relation to literature, art, and film.)

see post above

 

[Hespera]

So they were entitled to it, not by divine fiat, but by virtue of the fact that they invaded it, right?

If that's so, then was Adolf Hitler entitled to it?

What I'm trying to do here, is show how thinking the Bible is a book of myths, and that the Hebrews were nothing more than nomads to start off with, can lead to anti-Zionism.

But I have a feeling no one is going to give me a straight answer.

Show me the land that anyone lives on, that wasnt taken by force from someone else.

Adolph Schicklegruber was as entitled to the land he was grabbing as any other land grabber. Why pick on him? No special reason to pick on the Jews and get all anti zionist any more than about any other land grabbers.

Anyone claiming that they can be an imperialist land grabber coz god wants them to be is just disgusting.

hey now whose land do YOU live on, are you entitled to it, was it taken by force from its owners? Why do i have a feeling you wont give a straight answer?

 

[Hespera]

Not at all. In addition to historical and archaeological evidence, there's also prophetic evidence. The Bible mentions many times that Israel will always be a nation that people want to attack and destroy, but that Israel will always prevail. History has shown this to be true. This pwns the Illiad big time.

How do you "pwn" a historical novel like the Iliad? it has nothing to do with the bible, other than that they are both historical novels full of magic reality. Mighty warriors, divine intervention etc.

is there a nation that hasnt a history of being attacked?

As for Israel, they did real well against the Romans. Two thousand years later they try for self fulfilling prophesy.


Then oddly enough, a lot of people dont like it. That aint the kind of prophecy that is hard to make! Let them think god sent them to take part of China see how that goes.

The modern history of israel is about 60 years. A little early to say that proves they are gonna last. Iran is fixing to turn them into a glowing bowl of glass.