Gay Marriage

[KingCrimson250]

I think there would be something seriously wrong with the picture if it were correct. Perhaps the generalisation fits to some extent, but there are lots of people who give to charities, help the homeless, work in soup kitchens, even travel overseas and help the less fortunate in various ways directly or through contributions. I'd bet alot of these people are also against gay marriage.

The issue of gay "marriage" is deeper than it is usually framed. With regards to both the church, and society at large. If you need to ask "why" that is, then perhaps it's worth considering the implications a little more than "if two people love each other then...."...

Well evidently when one is talking about society at large, it's going to end up as a generalization. There are obviously plenty of people who go against this, but that's not what this is about.

I am against gay marriage, let me say that now, but I think our priorities are absurd. I mean, there are literally hundreds of thousands of victims of crimes against humanity thanks to Joseph Kony, there is the Darfur civil war going on, only about half a year ago hundreds of Christians in India were killed by Hindu extremists, not to mention the hundreds of other crises that are taking place all over the world (oh, and AIDS). And yet, for whatever reason, none of this receives the same amount of lobbying or media coverage as gay marriage, which, by the way, is nothing more than people attempting to impose Christian values on non-Christian people.

I don't get where this paranoia comes from. Gay people are not coming to "take us away," despite twistedsketch's comparison. I don't care how big a deal gay marriage is to you, there is no way you can put it on the same level as the Nazi takeover of Germany, alright? That is ridiculous. I understand the reference you were making, but it doesn't work in this context. No one is forcing pastors or priests to marry gay couples if they don't want to. They have the right to deny that, to say "Look, I disagree with this, I'm not going to marry you." No one is taking that away. It's about giving priests, pastors and judges the option to marry gay couples if they so desire. That's it. And I'm sure there will be all sorts of comments calling me naive and telling me that homosexual marriage will destroy the fabric of our society and all that sort of thing, but I have yet to hear a convincing or captivating argument in support of that. Sin is sin, and sin will destroy marriage whatever it is, whether it is homosexuality, adultery, drunkeness, dishonesty, whatever. It's all undermining the sacred institution of marriage, and to be openly hostile to one while accepting of all the others as "things that happen" is a bit strange, in my opinion.

I understand that gay marriage is an issue, but it's over-emphasized. On both sides. The fact that so-called "social justice" lobbyists are more concerned with seeing gay people be able to marry than with seeing aid brought to Sudan is despicable. But I mean, if you are capable of walking up to a child in the LRA and saying "Hey buddy, I'd love to help you out, I mean, this must suck! But, I've got the sanctity of marriage to defend, you know, I mean, if they start letting gay people get married, why, then they might start throwing Christians in prison! You don't want that to happen, do you?" then by all means, go for it. And Stravinsk did raise a good point, there are lots of people who have got their priorities straight. But there's a lot who don't, as well. And that's what irritates and above all else baffles me. So can someone answer this question, and it is a genuine question: Why do you believe that, of all the social issues out there, gay marriage is the most important one to deal with?

 

[Tissue]

Gay marriage is a social, political issue. Religious 'reasons' should not enter the discussion.

America is not a theocracy.

 

[Inviolable]

I just saw a massive Facebook group dedicated to the opposition of gay marriage and that got me thinking.

What's it called?
I'd like to join it.

There are countries all around the world that are on their last legs, so to speak. There are all sorts of people who are impovershed to the point of starvation and death, plagued with diseases that are easily treatable with proper medicine. Our own streets are filled with the homeless and the destitute who are without hope for a future. Millions around the world are oppressed for their beliefs, their race, their class, or simply because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Instead of addressing any of these problems, the average North American is more concerned with lining his or her own pockets. There are all sorts of problems we could theoretically solve, or at least help out with, but we don't, out of greed.

And yet the social issue that has got the Church up in arms is one man wanting to marry another?

Anyone else think that there's something seriously wrong with this picture?

Yeah, those two guys should tell America they don't care about getting married anymore as long as we take care of the issues you want to address.

 

[Texas Lynn]

It has already affected Christian doctors, Christian photographers, and Christians who run dating sites.

They came first for the doctors, and I didn't speak up because I was not a doctor.

Then they came for the photographers, and I didn't speak up because I was not a photographer.

Then they came for the matchmakers, and I didn't speak up because I was not a matchmaker.

Then they came for me . . .

All of them violated civil rights laws. It has nothing to do with their religion. It's about how they violated a law related to their practicing illegal discrimination in business. The melodramatic presentation there is just silly.

 

[Nadiine]

I just saw a massive Facebook group dedicated to the opposition of gay marriage and that got me thinking.

There are countries all around the world that are on their last legs, so to speak. There are all sorts of people who are impovershed to the point of starvation and death, plagued with diseases that are easily treatable with proper medicine. Our own streets are filled with the homeless and the destitute who are without hope for a future. Millions around the world are oppressed for their beliefs, their race, their class, or simply because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Instead of addressing any of these problems, the average North American is more concerned with lining his or her own pockets. There are all sorts of problems we could theoretically solve, or at least help out with, but we don't, out of greed.

And yet the social issue that has got the Church up in arms is one man wanting to marry another? Like are we out of our collective minds? A bunch of children are starving and we say "Okay, turn the channel" but someone stands up and says that homosexuals should be able to marry and we say "How dare they?"

Anyone else think that there's something seriously wrong with this picture?

What's wrong with this picture (your post position) is to think
that Christians can't do 2 things at the same time, or need to
ignore one fire to put out a different building fire elsehwere as if
this 1 fire isn't as bad or threatening.

I have news for you, there will ALWAYS be the poor - always.
It will never end and it won't end just with Christians doing
the job either.

I say, let's fight all the fires we can.

You might want to put some blame onto Govt. who eats us up in
taxes to pay for everyone else already (expect it to get much worse).
An average Christian who tithes 10% of their income to the church already, plus pays state & fed. taxes is already strapped.
And many churches are involved in helping the needy in their local
communities AND support missionaries who go to other countries
and help there too.
My own church is HEAVILY into missions and local aid and that's where
our charity goes until God sees fit to give us more $$.

Sorry, but I think a Christian can write a check & mail it, as well
as have time and energy to go to a voting booth and vote
against gay marriage - we managed to do both.

Christians are and have already been helping the poor - but
when yet another evil encroaches on society, it's time to act.
Christians didn't act when prayer was removed from schools,
or did little when abortion came into the picture - but we see
the damaging effects from inaction....

Perhaps Christians have learned that laying down and being
passive isn't what God called us to be and are finally fighting
against a great evil and threat to the family unit that will change
the face of society for decades to come.
That's what democracy is all about.

BOTH are vitally important - and both are being acted upon by Christians.
That's the right approach. I don't buy into this "we have to let
this go so that we can do that instead".
Says who?

 

[Nadiine]

What's it called?
I'd like to join it.

Yeah, those two guys should tell America they don't care about getting married anymore as long as we take care of the issues you want to address.

We can help the poor, but in the meanwhile, the USA turned into
Sodom & Gomorrah.
oopsy.

 

[LightHorseman]

What's it called?
I'd like to join it.

Yeah, those two guys should tell America they don't care about getting married anymore as long as we take care of the issues you want to address.

Why do you want to stop freely consenting adults from doing what they want, when it cannot effect you in any way?

 

[Nadiine]

Gay marriage is a social, political issue. Religious 'reasons' should not enter the discussion.

America is not a theocracy.

Morality is legislated, therefore it becomes a religious issue.
Unless you don't think abortion has anything to do with
anyone spiritually?

Every Christian should be concerned about morality - it affects
everyone in society.

 

[Texas Lynn]

You might want to put some blame onto Govt. who eats us up in
taxes to pay for everyone else already (expect it to get much worse).
An average Christian who tithes 10% of their income to the church already, plus pays state & fed. taxes is already strapped.

Which makes the right-wing churches' political alliance with forces which seek to curtail the rights of workers to organize especially horrible. People have been tricked into voting against themselves by bread and circuses.

 

[Texas Lynn]

We can help the poor, but in the meanwhile, the USA turned into Sodom & Gomorrah.

The U.S. is certainly a much more moral nation than it was 50 or 100 years ago.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Morality is legislated, therefore it becomes a religious issue.
Unless you don't think abortion has anything to do with
anyone spiritually?

Every Christian should be concerned about morality - it affects
everyone in society.

Agreed. The best moral position on abortion is the pro-choice position. www.rcrc.org

 

[Inviolable]

Why do you want to stop freely consenting adults from doing what they want, when it cannot effect you in any way?

I ask myself that question all the time and then I wonder why gays think they should be excluded from the list. Honestly, I don't see a reason.

Besides that, I searched facebook and didn't see it. So I think the OP is lying.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I ask myself that question all the time and then I wonder why gays think they should be excluded from the list. Honestly, I don't see a reason.

What list?

 

[Inviolable]

What list?

The list of people who are "freely consenting adults" that are stopped from doing what they want.

 

[Tissue]

Morality is legislated, therefore it becomes a religious issue.
Unless you don't think abortion has anything to do with
anyone spiritually?

That isn't my point. My point is, religious reasons are not binding for anyone who does not share your religion. And, you must accept the fact that there are many, many people in America who are not Christian. Surely you would raise a ruckus if Islam 'came to power' in America and began to affect our laws in ways that seem ridiculous to you.

Morality is not concerned with law, but motive (that is, the 'heart'). Therefore, if we assume your stance that gay marriage is immoral, it's not the actual act of marriage that is immoral, but something more basic to it (that is, the desire for homosexuality combined with the willingness to act upon it). Whether or not gay marriage is available will not affect this in the slightest. Individuals who want to murder, but refrain only because of the law, are still morally guilty.

 

[Zebra1552]

I just saw a massive Facebook group dedicated to the opposition of gay marriage and that got me thinking.

There are countries all around the world that are on their last legs, so to speak. There are all sorts of people who are impovershed to the point of starvation and death, plagued with diseases that are easily treatable with proper medicine. Our own streets are filled with the homeless and the destitute who are without hope for a future. Millions around the world are oppressed for their beliefs, their race, their class, or simply because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Instead of addressing any of these problems, the average North American is more concerned with lining his or her own pockets. There are all sorts of problems we could theoretically solve, or at least help out with, but we don't, out of greed.

And yet the social issue that has got the Church up in arms is one man wanting to marry another? Like are we out of our collective minds? A bunch of children are starving and we say "Okay, turn the channel" but someone stands up and says that homosexuals should be able to marry and we say "How dare they?"

Anyone else think that there's something seriously wrong with this picture?

Aside from that being wrong with the picture, we live in the United States of America, where we are given the freedom of speech and freedom from the prohibition and establishment of religion. Banning gay marriage not only violates this freedom, it also violates the example God set in allowing us free will. Why should we not allow as a choice what God has allowed as a choice? If there are things wrong with it, would it not come to light and be addressed in due time?

 

[Texas Lynn]

The list of people who are "freely consenting adults" that are stopped from doing what they want.

I'm not following you. Are you on the list?

 

[Inviolable]

I'm not following you. Are you on the list?

I was but I'll give you an example and one that doesn't have to do with me.

I know a guy who's schizophrenic. I've told the story before and people got bent out of shape because I compared gay guys to this schitzo guy.
But then I got to thinking about that. The schitzo guy only talks to himself. The only thing that impairs his social and professional life and makes it different from everyone else' is that he talks to himself. Nothing he does effects anyone else
And I was told on these forums that that guy is worse them a gay man.
My question is why?

He just talks to himself, he isn't enjoying another mans penis in his mouth, he's "talking" to himself. So what makes him worse then a gay guy?
Why should "his" rights be decided for him and not the gay guys?

The schitzo was born that way, he can't help but be who he is.

And if this argument seems ridiculous to you, I understand.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I was but I'll give you an example and one that doesn't have to do with me.

I know a guy who's schizophrenic. I've told the story before and people got bent out of shape because I compared gay guys to this schitzo guy.
But then I got to thinking about that. The schitzo guy only talks to himself. The only thing that impairs his social and professional life and makes it different from everyone else' is that he talks to himself. Nothing he does effects anyone else
And I was told on these forums that that guy is worse them a gay man.
My question is why?

He just talks to himself, he isn't enjoying another mans penis in his mouth, he's "talking" to himself. So what makes him worse then a gay guy?
Why should "his" rights be decided for him and not the gay guys?

The schitzo was born that way, he can't help but be who he is.

And if this argument seems ridiculous to you, I understand.

I don't know. If he's not a danger to himself or others he has a right to be left alone. I'm not sure what the comparison to LGBTs is.

 

[liars_paradox]

I just saw a massive Facebook group dedicated to the opposition of gay marriage and that got me thinking.

There are countries all around the world that are on their last legs, so to speak. There are all sorts of people who are impovershed to the point of starvation and death, plagued with diseases that are easily treatable with proper medicine. Our own streets are filled with the homeless and the destitute who are without hope for a future. Millions around the world are oppressed for their beliefs, their race, their class, or simply because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Instead of addressing any of these problems, the average North American is more concerned with lining his or her own pockets. There are all sorts of problems we could theoretically solve, or at least help out with, but we don't, out of greed.

And yet the social issue that has got the Church up in arms is one man wanting to marry another? Like are we out of our collective minds? A bunch of children are starving and we say "Okay, turn the channel" but someone stands up and says that homosexuals should be able to marry and we say "How dare they?"

Anyone else think that there's something seriously wrong with this picture?

Honestly, I feel like this comes from a selfish desire to prevent their own lives by being affected by others. Many people who profess to be Christian don't seem motivated by the fact that people are dying from starvation, yet try to enforce social control on those around them. This in my mind, is the same thing our Lord and Savior fought against when he had altercations with the Pharisees.

The Pharisees cared little for the poor, used the word of God to enforce social control, and looked down on others. Anyone who wants to get you up in arms over trying to keep marriage between a man and woman is committing same sin as those who crucified the messiah in my eyes.