How many of you creationists...

[AV1611VET]

What makes you think gravity and the Strong Nuclear force are going to be suspended?

I'm sure you know what the Rapture is --- and Peter mentions the elements "dissolving" ---

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

[OldStyleBlues]

How did Noah fit all of those animals on the Ark? Shrink-wrap space saver bags would be my guess.

 

[AV1611VET]

How did Noah fit all of those animals on the Ark?

What animals?

Can you name just one?

(That is, without giving me the impression you were there.)

 

[LightSeaker]

I'm sure you know what the Rapture is --- and Peter mentions the elements "dissolving" ---

I gotta know, will my shoes be left behind?

.

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

I gotta know, will my shoes be left behind?

.

I'm sure you know this but we will have no use for earthly possessions in Heaven

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I'm sure you know what the Rapture is --- and Peter mentions the elements "dissolving" ---

"2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?"

Well I never. I should've paid closer attention when I read it the first time through .

What is Paul referring to by "the elements shall melt with fervent heat"? He couldn't have been using the modern definition, so maybe something along the lines of fire, earth, air, and water?

 

[OldStyleBlues]

What animals?

Can you name just one?

(That is, without giving me the impression you were there.)

Umm Skunks? Camels? Zebras? Three toed tree sloths? Piggies. Peacocks? Stink Bugs? Baboons? Cause if I had an ark, I'd make sure that those amimals were a priority.

 

[The Lady Kate]

For starters, the universe runs on four forces of nature:

1. Gravity
2. Electronagnetism
3. Strong Nuclear Force
4. Weak Nuclear Force

All set in motion by God in Genesis 1.

Agreed that God set them in motion... but that doesn't mean that science "runs" them.

Science is nothing more than the collective term for the tools we used to identify those forces. Naming them is far different from running them.

Like I said, I personify science and nature in order to explain it more easily.

But in so doing, you got confused and lost sight of your own metaphor, and in your desire to personify these things to explain them, mistakenly treated them as actual people, with feelings and motives they cannot possibly have.

Poetic language aside, nature can no more be obiedient or hostile to God than a magnet can be codependent to my refridgerator.

No --- I said ---This means that if God were to step back and let the universe take its course (Deism?), it would eventually run down.

See? Once you abandoned the metaphor, your point became far more clear.

But God isn't going to just step back and let the universe run its course --- He has one doosey of an intervention plan, starting with the Rapture (suspending or overpowering Gravity), and ending with the suspension of the Strong Nuclear Force and rearrangement of the particles into a New Heaven and a New Earth.

If that particular interpretation of the Bible is accurate, yes. If I were to step back and let a wind-up toy take its course, it would eventually run down... unless I occasionally wind it up again.

Wrong scenario.

I see that now... your personification muddled things.

Then use the word "nature" for clarity.

I will if you will.

 

[The Lady Kate]

I've already shown (from Wikipedia) why I think Noah lived in [what is now] New Jersey.

As a Jersey Girl myself, I'd really love to see the link to that one...

You see --- you guys have such a narrow view of the Scriptures, and such a high view of science, that you can't think outside of Mesopotamia --- and that's why I say science is so myopic.

We prefer not to add things to the Bible which aren't there... sorry if you consider that "myopic."

 

[The Lady Kate]

What animals?

Can you name just one?

(That is, without giving me the impression you were there.)

I don't understand... are you saying that Noah didn't have any animals on the ark?

 

[The Lady Kate]

I'm sure you know this but we will have no use for earthly possessions in Heaven

Not even my iPod? It can't be heaven without Jimmy Buffet.

 

[LightHorseman]

Umm Skunks? Camels? Zebras? Three toed tree sloths? Piggies. Peacocks? Stink Bugs? Baboons? Cause if I had an ark, I'd make sure that those amimals were a priority.

And why did he bother with mosquitos, leaches, scorpions and infantrymen?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I don't understand... are you saying that Noah didn't have any animals on the ark?

Not modern animals, but their ancestral 'kinds'. The proto-canid that begat wolves, dogs, and all that jazz .

 

[The Lady Kate]

I disagree ---

Apparantly so did Paul... he's saying that when he opens his mouth, it's God talking.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Not modern animals, but their ancestral 'kinds'. The proto-canid that begat wolves, dogs, and all that jazz .

Anyone who reads God's instructions to Noah closely enough will see that can't be the case... God told Noah to take along seven of every clean animal... "clean" here being in reference to the Jewish dietary laws, which were outlined much later... chronologically speaking... in Biblical history.

That means that in order for God's instructions to make any sense, Noah would've had to have been familiar with the dietary laws... meaning the same animals mentioned by name when those laws were enumerated must've existed in the time of Noah... not some ancestral "kind."

 

[AV1611VET]

What is Paul referring to by "the elements shall melt with fervent heat"? He couldn't have been using the modern definition, so maybe something along the lines of fire, earth, air, and water?

From the Defender's Study Bible:

Possibly this will be a global atomic fission reaction, or else simply a vast explosive disintegration involving transformation of the chemical energy of the elements into heat, light and sound energy. What remains after the global fiery disintegration will be other forms of energy so that, although God's principle of conservation still holds, the solid earth will seem to have "fled away" (Revelation 20:11)

 

[AV1611VET]

Umm Skunks? Camels? Zebras? Three toed tree sloths? Piggies. Peacocks? Stink Bugs? Baboons? Cause if I had an ark, I'd make sure that those amimals were a priority.

Probably none of the above --- wanna try again?

 

[AV1611VET]

As a Jersey Girl myself, I'd really love to see the link to that one...

QV please: 174.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't understand... are you saying that Noah didn't have any animals on the ark?

No --- I'm making the point that only their "kinds" boarded the Ark.

If we were there as an observer, I wonder how many animals we would even recognize.

For instance, all of the "beasts of the field" could have been represented by the dragon or the unicorn.

Of course, I'm not an expert on that --- but it makes my point that only their "kinds" (incipient species?) had to actually get aboard.

 

[The Lady Kate]

QV please: 174.

Ok, seriously... where's the real link?