Vaccinations

[visionary]

No, Cosmicgoldfish. You're wrong. It's rather simple. You, are, wrong.

There's no room for wiggling around, no room for grey. There's a right and a wrong. How do we know?

First the claim was mercury in vaccines caused autism. Until you look at other countries that used similar vaccines without the mercury tainting and had similar changes in autism. This held true that even after the US cracked down on the use of a mercury like preservative in vaccines the rate was uneffected.

Aha say some frauds like Wakefield (oh yes, he's no being investigated for completely fabricating his results, it wasn't just bad science/inability, it was wilful fraud) - it's the 3-in-1 vaccine. Evidence against that? Japan. Japan stopped giving the 3-in-1 MMR vaccine a long time ago. Result? Same rate in Autism cases as the US/Europe that continued with MMR as standard.

Ahh, say the truly retrograde, so it's the vaccines in general! Except we have Denmark. The Danish study used about 400,000 samples. Denmark is fantastic - it tracks those both in and out of the vaccination system throughout life. Again, autism rates were identical between the vaccinated and unvaccinated kids.

So there we have it - fiction (vaccines cause autism) is disproven by the power of science.

***
It's worth noting there is ONE case where MMR or really any vaccine can and has caused autistic like symptoms. It's a rare genetic condition that causes the body to react to any infection. The problem is that this is literally any infection, so the chances of the child escaping infancy without the associated brain damage is non-existent.

***
Finally, much of this is because people don't understand what the world was like before vaccines. Nothing in the history of man has saved so many lives and so much human suffering as vaccination (the only thing that comes close are the famines that have been prevented by the adoption of modern farming and genetic modification of crops to improve yield).

Really, if you dislike vaccines so much let's give you some of that smallpox. I'm sure your homeopathy will save you. Just make sure it's in a sealed room so idiocy like homeopathy doesn't end up hurting the rest of us like it is now.

ETA: I'm really not trying to insult any posters here - merely the idea that vaccines are bad for you when they've saved so many lives and the only arguments against them are emotional arguments from lay people.

one cannot discount the possibility that the timing of vaccinations with autism onset is merely one of coincidence rather than cause....Autism & vaccination - University of Sunderland

 

[Matthewj1985]

one cannot discount the possibility that the timing of vaccinations with autism onset is merely one of coincidence rather than cause....Autism & vaccination - University of Sunderland

Why not? All American serial killers wore shoes and pants, does that mean all people who wear shoes and pants are serial killers?

Correlation=/=causation.

Do you have any peer reviewed research on the connection?

 

[visionary]

would also be particularly interested to learn of any documented cases of completely unvaccinated children who have later dramatically and inexplicably regressed into autism after a normal infancy. To date, no such case has ever been identified to me. http://www.whale.to/vaccines/thrower2006.pdf

 

[visionary]

Searching for children who had not been exposed to mercury in vaccines -- the kind of population that scientists typically use as a "control" in experiments -- Dan Olmsted scoured the Amish of Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, who refuse to immunize their infants. Given the national rate of autism, Olmsted calculated that there should be 130 autistics among the Amish. He found only four. One had been exposed to high levels of mercury from a power plant. The other three -- including one child adopted from outside the Amish community -- had received their vaccines.----

Deadly Immunity By ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.
The Age of Autism: The Amish anomaly By Dan Olmsted

 

[visionary]

Andrew Wakefield will be exonerated, his theory will be accepted and a vaccine-autism connection will be proven. Wakefield's research is being duplicated in prestigious centers in the United States. In addition, viral culture results are expected soon from the National Institutes of Health laboratories. "--http://www.whale.to/a/yaz22.htnml.htm

 

[visionary]

Dr. Singh reported his own anecdotal survey of apparently vaccine-injured children with regressive autism. He found that 93% of cases had autistic symptoms shortly after vaccinations. Of these, 52% were post-MMR, 8% post MMR and DPT, and 33% post-DPT. Just 7% were not linked by the parents to any vaccination. He acknowledged that the survey was non-scientific.Body. Singh 2

 

[visionary]

The conclusion of the research report was: Children who received all of the AAP recommended vaccinations were 14 times more likely to become learning disabled and 8 times more likely to become autistic compared with children who were never vaccinated...

April is National Autism Month

 

[visionary]

"Bernard Rimland, Ph.D., has provided the statistics that, in their experience, from 50 to 60% of parents with autistic children believe that their children were damaged by vaccines. In our own office we have seen many autistic children in recent years, and our own experience has been very similar, many parents reporting that deterioration of their children took place following vaccines" An Open Letter in Support of Parents Wishing to Limit or Avoid Immunizations for their Children.

 

[visionary]

Dr. Ed Yazbak, a pediatric infectious disease specialist from Boston, said research will not find a chromosome responsible for autism. He is a former professor at Brown University now studying the medical histories of children with autism in an effort to determine what triggered their condition. "Research will show there is a genetic predisposition to autism. What we have to find is the environmental insult," he said..

Experts: Redefine Autism as Systemic Illness

 

[visionary]

"As a clinician, my current belief which guides my practice with these children is that any child given the HepB vaccination at birth and subsequent boosters along with DPT has received unacceptable levels of neurotoxin in the form of the ethyl mercury in the thimerosal preservative used in the vaccine. In any child with a genetic immune susceptibility (probably about one in six) this sets off a series of events that injure the brain-gut-immune system. By the time they are ready to receive the MMR vaccination, their immune system is so impaired in a great number of these children that the triple vaccine cannot be handled by the now dysfunctional immune system and they begin their obvious descent into the autistic spectrum disorder."---http://www.whale.to/m/candless.html

 

[visionary]

"Children who receive all of the 22 vaccines and 35 vaccinations currently recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) are 14 times more likely to become learning disabled and 8 times more likely to become autistic compared with children who were never vaccinated . 14 x more likely..

 

[visionary]

"I have hundreds of new friends who know their child's autism is from vaccines. They as parents know their children better then anyone and watched their children slip into the autism world after a vaccine. And no not all of them were MMR vaccines. Some were DTP vaccines."--- CONGRESSMAN BURTON'S DAUGHTER RESPONDS TO WEBMD ARTICLE

 

[visionary]

"Vaccination programs were instituted in the late 1930s, and the first handful of autistic babies were noted in the early 1940s. When vaccination programs were expanded after the war, the number of autistic children increased greatly."---http://www.whale.to/vaccines/coulter5.html

 

[Ave Maria]

I heard on the national news that the government is churning out swineflu vaccination serum. The question is will it need to be given in 2 doses as appossed to the standard one dose that has been followed for flu recent shots.

What got my attention also was the government making the sflu shot mandatory. I would think that would be rather impossible to do, but I found myself irritated that someone else is outhere making such a decision for me and my family. Now I would understand if there appeared to be a true outbreak, but spots here and there and most seem to recover. I did hear one source say that no more people have died from this flu then do the regular flu strains we see each winter.

Also how are the drug companies involved here? What would they rake in for mandatory shots or at the very least pumped press about the dangers of contracting the flu?

Any medical or research people out there care to help me understand some of this as I am as clueless as most of the laymen population about the flu and if it is possibly of an engineered source.

Do you have a source for this information?

 

[Ave Maria]

The only major problem that I have with vaccines is that some are made using aborted babies.

Vaccine Brochure Sample

 

[gracechick]

Here are some interesting links that I havn't had the time to fully read, but will...be aware some of boards with pathetic language


www.injuryboard.com/national-news/Flu-Vaccine-Mandatory-For-New-Jersey-Children.aspx?googleid=254536


www.topix.com/forum/city/pikeville-ky/TBTL86EIAT8VUC9VD


www.ageofautism.com/2009/04/swine-flu-part-2-medias-vaccine-injury-dichotomy.html


Glad you asked for some articles Ave Maria.

 

[gracechick]

Thank you Visionary for these links. I am so leery of our toddler getting so much foreign and questionable serums injected into her tiny immune system. Both my husband and I have ADD and I am higher up on the spectrum as well so this makes me quite nervous. She has only had a few of her mandatory shots up to date.

She has been healthy thus far and hasn't had the flu shot. My sisterlw said she vaccinated her children once and they were sicker that year then the past years when they weren't vaccinated. I don't know that pushing vaccination on healthy strong younger people is as good of an idea as the CDC says.

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

Look at those recall numbers versus drugs on the market that WORK. You are talking about single percentage points of failure.

Yes your right there are a lot of drugs out there that are working and not causing much harm, yet. But these are not being shoved down my throat either.

My point was in my first post was don't be so quick to get a vaccination, because truly you don't know what will come of it a few yrs later. If the government is going to step in and say we have to get the vaccination, where exactly is my freedom?

When the flu vaccination came out the first yr, I received one and was sicker than a dog. So I have not received the vaccination since. Yes I get the flu maybe once every 5-7 yrs, but I think I can deal.

 

[Drekkan85]

Ahh visionary - so much useless junk posted. Why? Because none of that is peer reviewed. WIthout review, information like that is useless. The reason why we can discard Wakefield's hypothesis is that his results have been investigated and falsified. Furthermore, he has now not only been accused of merely having bad science, but he wilfully committed fraud in his studies: MMR doctor Andrew Wakefield fixed data on autism - Times Online

How can we tell, again the Danish case. Far greater sample size than the Amish, far more controlled, and far more likely to have identical social and societal pressures than a completely segregated community. The Amish are SO different in lifestyle/community that you can't hold the vaccinations as the one non-constant. You can in the Danish case partially do to the sheer number of people involved.

There has yet to be a single peer reviewed piece (that wasn't later removed thanks to investigation and determination that fraud was committed in the publishing) that has discovered a link between MMR and autism. There has also been several pieces (most importantly the Danish study) that have conclusively disproven it. That's how science works, it discards hypothesises that have been falsified.

The most likely reason for increased diagnoses of autism has several possibilities (I'm not so obnoxious as to claim to have a single "this caused it" answer). First, the fact that "autism" isn't a single well defined disorder. It covers a massive number of similar communicative disorders that have varying onsets most of them at age 2 (which is when vaccines are given. I know, someone went back to the dawn of man and purposely spiked human DNA with a vaccine to cause this threat! gasp /sacrasm). As an umbrella disorder, when the diagnostic and communicative biases within the community reach a certain threshold, doctors are much more likely to call borderline cases, or other similar and related conditions, "autism". It's not 100% rational, but it's what they do.

Second, is that diagnostic criteria have gotten better. Kids that in the 1800s~1950s would have been written off as stupid or retarded are now classified as autistic as we better understand exactly what the problem really is. It's the same as how kids nowadays aren't just 'energetic' they have ADD.

Third, societal pressures. We see all kinds of problems in animals when we start to crowd them into smaller and smaller places. As we pack into cities and social pressures increase, brain chemistry also changes. We know rats gain whole hosts of anti-social behaviours when overpopulated, why wouldn't it also happen to humans?

***
That said much of this IS conjecture on my part. These are all three reasonable theories that should be tested by someone that knows more than either of us. That's why they're medical professionals and we're lay people. It's the height of arrogance to think that we can do a better job of it than they can when "it" is something one typically needs a near decade of training merely to start. Yet every single one of my answers is more valid then the utter fail and tripe that came before. Why? Because mine are at least possible, the tripe (vaccines cause autism) has been conclusively disproven.

 

[Drekkan85]

Ok, because now I'm at work and have a little more time than I did at home. Let's consider the points.

First, toss out what Kennedy writes. He's an environmental lawyer and hasn't published anything in a peer reviewed journal on the issue. Thus, any claims he makes haven't been experimentally and double blind tested.

The Amish study I've already addressed. The study about when regressive autism starts is utterly misleading. Why? Because autism starts at the same time as vaccines are given regardless of anything else. It's a coincidence - unless you can provide a causal mechanism (oh yes, and Wakefield's mechanism which has changed several times have each been disproven in experimental research).

As for what parents "are convinced" happened to their kids. Utterly worthless. The opinion of the parents on this issue is of zero value unless they're medical professionals that have done a double blind and peer reviewed study of the issue.

Finally we have physicians "personal opinions". Keep in mind, a physician's "personal opinion" is no more worthwhile then anyone else's. If the connection really existed they could show it in a study. If not, then congratulations, they're behaving irrationally.