Help me.

[razzelflabben]

So what need do we have for Deities? Since it all boils down to the evil of man while God does not intervene?

now this is an awesome question, I'm teaching my son to read at the moment, let me get back to it in a few......Actually, there are a couple of reasons, they are connected, but different so let me see if I can explain....God isn't about fixing all our problems, or being appeased, or even playing great big Santa Claus in the sky as many people think...(just for clarity, I can only speak for the diety of God not all deties and I can only speak from what the bible tells us about that God) God is about restoring us (man) to our original creation, that is a creation of innocence. This happens through our turning from our evil ways and to the ways of God, the way of Love...We can talk more about that if you want....God's intervening with man on this earth is now primarily (with a few exceptions but only a few) one of an inward working. It is the Holy Spirit (aka God) living in and working in man that changes our world, reduces the evil of man. When God is not working in man, that change doesn't happen and evil reigns....which leads us into the second reason, there is a song by a group called Downhere, the line I point you to says, "the problem with the world is me..." basically what it is saying is that each and everyone of us can make a difference in our world...when we live in our evil desires, evil reigns, when we live in the Love desires of God, Love reigns...

So to summarize and this is the simple version, we can exand as necessary, we should come to God, need God to restore us to our purpose: Love and to better our world around us, to show our world that there is a better way, the way of Love

The problem here is that we are adhering to a God invented by Bronze age goat herders complete with the morals of the time. Humanity has evolved its moral standards and religion is only a hindrance in this case.
I am sorry but you have failed to address my questions with direct answers. You seem to be avoiding the core of the subject and have totally avoided giving blame where blame is due.

Have a nice day

I thought I was directly dealing with each of the questions you asked, where did I fail?

As to the question about about morals, God isn't about morals, He is about Love, putting others above ourselves....If God was about morals you might have a point, though I would argue that our present moral are only better by our own standard, in other words morals are relative depending on the time and culture you live in, even what we are taught affects our morals, they are not an absolute...Love can be and is if defined by the details of the bible, an absolute that can be measured and tested.

So I'm really curious now, what core issue am I missing...? I totally love hard questions and the search to find the answers, in fact, I sometimes think that if I couldn't ask the hard questions and seek out the answers I would cease to exist, that is how much I love them, so to accuse me of missing the core issue, to accuse me of avoidance really stirs me very deeply....I want nothing more than to explore the tough things, the things that others run from....so please...what am I missing?

 

[tanzanos]

So I'm really curious now, what core issue am I missing...? I totally love hard questions and the search to find the answers, in fact, I sometimes think that if I couldn't ask the hard questions and seek out the answers I would cease to exist, that is how much I love them, so to accuse me of missing the core issue, to accuse me of avoidance really stirs me very deeply....I want nothing more than to explore the tough things, the things that others run from....so please...what am I missing?

Your idea of God is very different to the majority of American Christians I have been debating here. As to what you have been missing? Well you seem to avoid taking a clear point of view on the Bible and God! From your posts I come to the conclusion that your God is just a feeling you have inside of you and has nothing to do with the Evil God depicted in the Bible.
There is really nothing more I can add to this debate. I need a clear set of convictions regarding the Bible and we can take it from there.

I do have many questions but asking one to justify evil contained in the writings of ones faith; will never generate a straight answer. How can one argue with shadows?

 

[razzelflabben]

Your idea of God is very different to the majority of American Christians I have been debating here.

since I believe God to be a living God, I would guess you to be right on that issue...doesn't mean I missed anything though....

As to what you have been missing? Well you seem to avoid taking a clear point of view on the Bible and God! From your posts I come to the conclusion that your God is just a feeling you have inside of you and has nothing to do with the Evil God depicted in the Bible.

Feeling, not by a long shot...in fact, people who know me know very well that to me God is so much more than a feeling, in fact, most people see the mainstream as God is just a feeling within, and since by your own admission I'm not mainstream, that seems to be a contridictory statement....

As to the evil nature of God, I don't see it and after asking the question and studying the bible I still don't see it....I see some things that people might consider evil, but when put in context and perspective, they are very loving acts, not evil ones. Try explaining that to the mainstream!!! Oiy!!! Most people fail to see God because they are looking for Him with human eyes not spiritual eyes...when we put on our spiritual glasses so to speak, we see something truly amazing....

Hope that didn't seem to be avoiding the question, I really aimed for a head on attack of the question, and am not sure how else to deal with it but with an explaination of how to look at any and every situation that we don't seem to understand.....let me see, more clarity yet, an analogy.....We have a son who is serving in the military, currently he is in Calif. having just gotten back from Iraq. While he was home on leave, he did a lot of wrestling with our other boys...sometimes the wrestling matches became pretty rough. My husband and I would tell him to not be so rough, but after watching a video of some of the rough housing he does with his marine buddies it became obvious that he was being gentle at least from his perspective. Perspective has a lot to do with a persons behaviors and actions and the same is true for God....what He did, what He ordered has a lot more to do with why it was done, why it was ordered than that it was....this is coupled with the problem of relative morality in which our morals change with time and culture and teaching, and you pretty soon find yourself in a quandry unless you first try to see things through the eyes of another. When we do that, when we begin to see things through the eyes of God, what we once thought to be evil isn't nearly as evil any more. context, perspective, time in history, teachings, culture, etc. all affect what someone does and doesn't do, and that is as true with God as it is for you and I.

Now, did I miss it again?

There is really nothing more I can add to this debate. I need a clear set of convictions regarding the Bible and we can take it from there.

such as????MY personal convictions are that God is alive and well and within every true believer and that the bible is His inspired word to us His people and if we take the time to study it and search it, the questions that we ask will be answered. But because we are individuals, not clones, we have a right to accept those answers or reject them....for me personally, I have seen enough evidence that I accept the answers without question but often struggle to impliment those answers in daily life (also known as working out our salvation...in church ease)

Is that clear and complete enough? or were you referring to something else...I guess part of me hates to see this discussion end in that I so love a good hard question....you my friend have some....

I do have many questions but asking one to justify evil contained in the writings of ones faith; will never generate a straight answer. How can one argue with shadows?

Not sure what you think an answer is on this one....evil is not justified in scripture, in fact, it is always condemed...but what we deem evil relies on a flexible, relavent term that confuses us when we talk about good and evil. Let's see, another example...to us, killing a sister for having sex outside wedlock would be just plain evil and yet there are cultures where it is not only okay, but would be morally irresponsible not to kill such a sister.....we see the same thing with slavery, terrorism, selling children, all kinds of things, what is moral for one is not necessarily moral for another, we need a concrete word with a concrete understanding, something measurable in order to understand morality and evil....that is why when we study the bible, we need to find a measure....the measure I found was Love...I Cor. 13 gives us a kind of definition for love, a measure if you will....next we look for perspective, God's perspective according to the bible is eternal, not temperal, so we have a measure and a perspective, we are well on our way to understanding the "evils" of God. Accepting them is not part of the understanding, please keep that in mind....even if we understand, we have the right to reject....what we need to do is understand so that our decision to accept or reject is an informed one.

Now back to the question I asked and somehow missed your response to.....why would we attribute everything done in the name of any deity to that deity....why blame allah for what every Islamic extremist does? Why blame God for what everyone taught to say God is my god does? What logic drives us to assume that every word, every action that comes from man is done so by the deity he/she claims?

 

[tanzanos]

As to the evil nature of God, I don't see it and after asking the question and studying the bible I still don't see it....

God commands the slaughter of suckling babes. God commands the heads of children to be bashed on the cobblestones, God commands the murder of disobedient children, etc, etc, and you don't see the evil in these???????

Sorry but when I hear the phrase " Blind faith" I know exactly what they mean.

I challenge God to come to me face to face; and I shall be the first to denounce him as evil!

Sorry but you don't seem to be reading the bible. Please visit this website and take the time to read all that is contained. Remember that in this site only what is contained in the bible is used.

Evil Bible Home Page

Enjoy and have a nice day

 

[razzelflabben]

God commands the slaughter of suckling babes. God commands the heads of children to be bashed on the cobblestones, God commands the murder of disobedient children, etc, etc, and you don't see the evil in these???????

again, look at all the different elements to what we are talking about here....look at the culture of the day, these things were common place...look at Gods perspective, eternal not temperal.....look at God's purpose, purity....so what we have here is a God who sees the destruction that would be brought if the people were left alive, a people that will not be destroyed by death, because it is eternal death, not temperal that is the problem (perspective) and we also have the grace of death over other evils that would have befallen the children in a world of evil men....

If all these children would have been left to live, they would have all ended up slaves (would that have been less evil?)
These children would have inherited eternal "bliss" rather than suffering slavery on this earth (would that have been less evil?)
and you have an entire other population that would have been destroyed not just temorarily but eternally as well. (would that have been less evil?)

When you are facing down evil, sometimes the answer might appear evil as well. consider the guy wo is so evil that he is shot while trying to avoid capture after brutally raping and murdering a young girl...was shooting a guy "evil"? maybe so, did the evil of the shooting outweigh the "evil" of his actions? What is evil? Is the grace of above, evil in perspective of eternity?

Sorry but when I hear the phrase " Blind faith" I know exactly what they mean.

where have I said "blind faith"? Personally, I don't believe in "blind faith" I believe in faith with our spiritual eyes wide open, but that would be a different discussion I would guess...

I challenge God to come to me face to face; and I shall be the first to denounce him as evil!

as I said, God is fully aware of your accusations of Him, what He is waiting for is your quietness so He can answer your accusations.

Sorry but you don't seem to be reading the bible. Please visit this website and take the time to read all that is contained. Remember that in this site only what is contained in the bible is used.

actually, I will, and have read similar websites and find them all missing some very basic, very important things....things straight out of the bible....so which should I believe, an interpretation by man, or the interpretation God gives us theough His word.

Edit: this is a website I have been referenced before, read and find many mistakes on it about what the bible actually says, all that is required on most of this particular website is a small amount of study, not even real in depth stuff....I also will admit that for the person not willing to put any effort into the content, it sounds compelling, but a small bit of research shows all kinds of problems....

 

[Gracchus]

"He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" --- KJV Micah 6:8

That is all that is required, not temples, churches, doctrines, dogmas, popes, priests, preachers, prophets, sacrifices or prayers. That is it. That is the word.

(Notice that the "walk humbly" clause frees us from the necessity to judge and criticize the behavior of others.)

That is the good news, that is the seed.

"18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." --- KJV Matthew Chapt. 13

The weeds and bramble sown by the man's enemy in the second parable are all those doctrines and proscriptions that are not the word, that say you must believe any sort of nonsense, give money to charlatans, and make public shows of piety. The "Bible" is full of them. The churches are full of them. It is for us to separate the wheat from the weeds. lest we choke ourselves on thistles, and poison ourselves with milkweed.

 

[Suggestion Box]

the last 2 posts are great examples of possible reasons for seemingly contradictory stuff in the bible - but given the amount of good, solid truth in there that can in fact be backed up by day-to-day life, there's certainly no reason to throw out the whole thing. same goes for a lot of religious scriptures. why look at a book as 'what can i find in here to discredit it?' and not 'what useful information can i get out of this?' shoot, i mean i didn't pick up on the themes of the matrix the first time i watched it, but that doesn't mean it's a bad movie! read to better your understanding, not to discredit that of others.

 

[KingCrimson250]

I'm not going to get involved in this discussion overall right now but Tanzanos, if I can offer you a word of advice, please don't use that Evil Bible website. I'm sure there are all sorts of intelligent documents out there to argue that the Bible and God are evil and immoral, but that's not one of them. I read through some of it, because I think it's always good to challenge your beliefs, no matter what they are, but this site didn't challenge anything. My reaction upon reading a lot of it was "Come on, seriously?"

If they addressed entire passages and said, "Hey, look, here we've got a big chunk of Scripture, and after understanding the context of the passage and evaluating various arguments and counter-arguments and attempting to understand the passage through one or several hermeneutical schools, we would like to postulate that it is evidence of an unjust or evil God," then that would be fine. I would say "Okay, you've thought your opinion through, you've done your research, that's phenomenal. I might not end up agreeing fully but I respect you a lot."

But that isn't what they do. They just say "LOL look! Read this scripture! God is EVIL!" It's silly and ignorant, and I swear it's the atheist's version of jesus-is-saviour.com. They never go into any of the context around the passage, they never talk about what other possible interpretations might be, they never offer possible counter-arguments and attempt to refute them. They aren't trying to educate anyone, they're just spreading hatred and misinformation and throwing out-of-context passages around. Tell them to at least take a basic course on Biblical interpretation first, and in the meantime, I would try to find a site that is more intellectual and educated.

It's a bit like arguing that Jesus wasn't a historical figure (which is a teneble position, though not one that I would hold), and then throwing it all away because you back it up with The Da Vinci Code.

 

[Gracchus]

I'm not going to get involved in this discussion overall right now but Tanzanos, if I can offer you a word of advice, please don't use that Evil Bible website. I'm sure there are all sorts of intelligent documents out there to argue that the Bible and God are evil and immoral, but that's not one of them. I read through some of it, because I think it's always good to challenge your beliefs, no matter what they are, but this site didn't challenge anything. My reaction upon reading a lot of it was "Come on, seriously?"

Seriously, it is worth while considering that a lot of the Bible is nonsense. True, it's a gold mine, but even the mother lode is mostly quartz.

 

[KingCrimson250]

Here's the thing. They can believe the Bible is nonsense if they want. They can share this with others if they want. That's not the issue at hand here. The issue at hand is that they do it in such a ridiculous and anti-intellectual way that it only spreads ignorance. They aren't saying "The Bible is evil, we know this because we've done a lot of research on it, we've evaluated our arguments, and it seems to be the truth as far as we can tell." They're saying "We think the Bible is evil, and once you've read through our collection of heavily biased misquotations, we think that you'll feel the same!"

Forgive me, however, if I didn't really respond to your post, or if I misunderstood you. When you said "it's a gold mine" I think that it was a bit ambiguous as to what "it" was referring to - the site or the Bible. So if you could clear up your post a bit, too, I would appreciate that.

 

[Gracchus]

Forgive me, however, if I didn't really respond to your post, or if I misunderstood you. When you said "it's a gold mine" I think that it was a bit ambiguous as to what "it" was referring to - the site or the Bible. So if you could clear up your post a bit, too, I would appreciate that.

Well, I meant the Bible is a gold mine. The site may also be a gold mine, but I would not venture an assay on which had the higher grade ore.

 

[tanzanos]

If all these children would have been left to live, they would have all ended up slaves (would that have been less evil?)
These children would have inherited eternal "bliss" rather than suffering slavery on this earth (would that have been less evil?)

I am SHOCKED that you have made such a statement! What you say is tantamount to "lets kill all the children who will end up slaves, criminals, thieves, prostitutes, etc.

How much more Evil can this world accept before we rid ourselves of the religions that preach such utter disregard for human dignity? How can one condone such thoughts and insist they are Good and the God that commands such heinous acts is a Good God?

You have given me even more reason to speak out against religion!

I would rather die than have any child killed! My only wish is when I die I shall do so without having taken a life!

I am truly SHOCKED!

 

[razzelflabben]

I am SHOCKED that you have made such a statement! What you say is tantamount to "lets kill all the children who will end up slaves, criminals, thieves, prostitutes, etc.

from and earthly perspective you would be right, but remember, we are talking about an eternal perspective, not a temperal or worldly one....let me see, an analogy beyond what I have given....ah, let's repeat this one....God sees the eternal, so let's take a sick child, you as the parent have two choices, 1. you can allow the child to be in pain for a few days but be well in the end and live a long and healthy life, or 2. you can stop the childs pain immediately but the child will live a short life full of difficulties.....so, do you leave the child in pain for a few days so that he can live a long happy life, or do you end the childs pain and thus sentence him to a short and troubled life.....God chose the first, a temporary pain for a long term effect. that btw is the one I would choose for my kids as well, I would much rather see them live long and happy in exchange for a few days of pain that to die and suffer so that they don't have to be uncomfortable for a couple of days....it's the difference between a few days and an eternity....When we see God's perspective, the earthly understanding no longer fits, perspective being one of the things required to understand anothers point of view....you are seeing it only through earthly eyes, not through spiritual eyes, temperal eyes, not eternal ones.

How much more Evil can this world accept before we rid ourselves of the religions that preach such utter disregard for human dignity? How can one condone such thoughts and insist they are Good and the God that commands such heinous acts is a Good God?

Well first off, good is a relative term and so you won't here me proclaim in such a discussion as this that God is good, in other context maybe, but not in this context....in this context, good is relative as to the perspective/premise you hold....If we see only through temperal eyes, things look very different than they do through eternal eyes.

As to the rest of this paragraph, "religions" and here I might argue that that is why I speak from a biblical perspective not a religious one, because religions are based on man's wisdom, man's perspective and is always selfish and evil, but let's move on in discussion....the religions that teach love and tolerance are not the problem, it is the men/woman who twist the teachings to accomadate thier own evils that is the problem...Remember the question I have asked a couple of times now, about why we would even think about applying man's evils to any deity? This is where that question becomes important....If the evils you speak of are done by man not God, not Allah, not Zues, etc. why would we apply those evils to those given deities? Only what is that deities belongs to him/her....none of the evils you have seen are taught in scripture even the evils in the website you reference show a lack of biblical understanding not an evil God. You are trying to apply to God what is not His....do you do the same with Allah? Is Allah evil? What of Zues? Is He evil as well? We can go on and on and on....just because man is evil doesn't mean the deity that man holds as truth is also evil.

As to God specifically, you need to evidence evil before you can call Him evil and so far you have failed to do so, so far, all you have managed is to show how your moral understanding differs from God's...no problem, I'm sure your moral understandings differs in some way with every other being on this earth, it's the nature of moral understandings...

You have given me even more reason to speak out against religion!

I would rather die than have any child killed! My only wish is when I die I shall do so without having taken a life!

I am truly SHOCKED!

Your missing the point and I would have to suggest that the tone would indicate that you are bent on missing the point....it's a purposeful intent. Please keep in mind, I am not asking you to see any of this as right or good only to understand what you are missing....if you are missing perspective, then understanding the importance of that perspective doesn't mean you have to agree with it....I can understand why someone would kill a child, doesn't mean that I would ever kill my kids, or condon such a behavior, but having kids of my own, I can understand how frustrated you can get with your kids....see, that is the difference between understanding and agreeing....personally, I could never kill, not even for my God (whom btw I serve to such a degree that I have been told no one lives what they believe more than I do) but that doesn't mean that God is wrong, it means that the heart He has placed within me could not take a life

Oh and one more thing about God, if you remember back in conversation, culture had a lot to do with God's instructions....the OT culture especially at that time was very different than our culture in the NT or even today....it was a different world a people who saw things very differently...take slavery for example, in OT slavery was by and large a spoils of war....God functioned within that culture and as the culture changed, so did God's commands....one of the things we have not yet talked about is the surrounding religions, religions and people who thought nothing of rolling thier children down ramps into pits of fire so they could appease the gods....Which is more merciful, allowing suckling children to be burned to death to appease an evil god, or to kill them quickly so that they can live in peace for eternity? Remember that temporary pain for long life above??? That is what it's all about....so who in that culture is showing evil? slow burning death of thier children for eternal death, or quick death for eternal life (death here meaning physical death vs. the eternal separations)

Culture, perspective are both vital to knowing truth of anyones actions or point of view....

 

[tanzanos]

God sees the eternal, so let's take a sick child, you as the parent have two choices, 1. you can allow the child to be in pain for a few days but be well in the end and live a long and healthy life, or 2. you can stop the childs pain immediately but the child will live a short life full of difficulties.....so, do you leave the child in pain for a few days so that he can live a long happy life, or do you end the childs pain and thus sentence him to a short and troubled life.....God chose the first, a temporary pain for a long term effect. that btw is the one I would choose for my kids as well, I would much rather see them live long and happy in exchange for a few days of pain that to die and suffer so that they don't have to be uncomfortable for a couple of days....it's the difference between a few days and an eternity....When we see God's perspective, the earthly understanding no longer fits, perspective being one of the things required to understand anothers point of view....you are seeing it only through earthly eyes, not through spiritual eyes, temperal eyes, not eternal ones. Well first off, good is a relative term and so you won't here me proclaim in such a discussion as this that God is good, in other context maybe, but not in this context....in this context, good is relative as to the perspective/premise you hold....If we see only through temperal eyes, things look very different than they do through eternal eyes.

You not only justify infanticide but also you take it upon yourself to speak the mind of God. What on earth gives you the ability to know what is in God's mind?

ONLY IN AMERICA!

 

[razzelflabben]

You not only justify infanticide but also you take it upon yourself to speak the mind of God. What on earth gives you the ability to know what is in God's mind?

ONLY IN AMERICA!

Now in a moment I might have to get testy with you for a moment or two....let's get a couple of things clear, 1. I never said not suggested infanticide was good, right, justified, etc. only that with the right perspective, the right culture, etc. it isn't the evil that you and I think it to be today and 2. I am not speaking God's mind, I am telling you what the bible says about God and His motives, very different things here.

Now if we have that clear, let's move on.....

 

[tanzanos]

Now in a moment I might have to get testy with you for a moment or two....let's get a couple of things clear, 1. I never said not suggested infanticide was good, right, justified, etc. only that with the right perspective, the right culture, etc. it isn't the evil that you and I think it to be today and 2. I am not speaking God's mind, I am telling you what the bible says about God and His motives, very different things here.

Now if we have that clear, let's move on.....

Sorry but God is VERY specific about killing children. Now no matter how you want to dress it up to look like it is a justifiable thing; Killing children is EVIL!

There is nothing more we can discuss since you insist that it is good to kill children when God wishes it so!

All I can say is EVIL is EVIL no matter which way you look at it.

There is nothing more I can debate with you!

 

[razzelflabben]

Sorry but God is VERY specific about killing children. Now no matter how you want to dress it up to look like it is a justifiable thing; Killing children is EVIL!

I freely admitted He did, I said nothing about justifying it, all I said was that if we see it through His perspective of the culture, purpose, premise, it isn't the same evil act we see when we remove all the qualifiers that govern our understanding of any act done by another.....again, you are confusing understanding with agreeing, they are way different. I can understand God's point without ever agreeing with Him, and in fact, that does nothing to destroy my relationship with Him or anyone unless I want it to.

There is nothing more we can discuss since you insist that it is good to kill children when God wishes it so!

actually that isn't what I said nor is it remotely close, which is why has me stumped....if you are seeking answers and not just trying to assert you know more than anyone else, why must you insist I said something I did not? Why insist God did something He did not (not talking about the children here, but the evil in the world in general)? Etc.

All I can say is EVIL is EVIL no matter which way you look at it.

There is nothing more I can debate with you!

Your right here, evil is evil, the question is what is evil and who is responsible for the evil we see and experience in our onw lives? So who do you think is responsible for all the evil you have seen? Where does that evil come from.....maybe it's time for your beliefs to be in the hot seat, especially since you haven't answered my question yet....

 

[Stinker]

An interesting and informative read on this issue:

shouldn't the butchering of the Amalekite children be considered war crimes?

 

[razzelflabben]

An interesting and informative read on this issue:

shouldn't the butchering of the Amalekite children be considered war crimes?

I have another thought to offer on this topic as well, consider this....the history of the time shows us that the surrounding people worshiped gods that not only liked, but encouraged such evils and human child sacrifices and sexual orgies and forced rapes both hetero and homosexual in nature.....what would our current culture, our current society be like if these men, woman, and children would have been allowed to continue on the path they were on, continue to live and thrive? We know from history that "morals" are more taught than anything else, what we teach others is good, becomes good...so what if God had allowed the evils of these other religions, other gods to continue on? How differently would our society, our "moral code" be today if we have been taught by thousands of years of cultural teaching and morals, that slavery, human sacrifice, murder, rapes, etc. would all be legally and religiously okay.....I really don't think that is the kind of society I would want to know up close....consider the times in scripture where God ordered either first hand or by the hand of His people to destroy a group of people... each and every case, involved people whose evil was out of check, over the limit......now this is not to say God was right or wrong, but rather to say that God opened the door for us as a people today to have the morals that we do. Just a thought for what it's worth.

 

[R3quiem]

I have another thought to offer on this topic as well, consider this....the history of the time shows us that the surrounding people worshiped gods that not only liked, but encouraged such evils and human child sacrifices and sexual orgies and forced rapes both hetero and homosexual in nature.....

The justification for genocide that people were sacrificing their babies is one I've heard before and one that makes no sense. The logic is terrible.

1. They're sacrificing babies and having orgies!
2. We'll kill all of them, including their babies!

That's a lame justification because it contradicts itself with the results.

what would our current culture, our current society be like if these men, woman, and children would have been allowed to continue on the path they were on, continue to live and thrive? We know from history that "morals" are more taught than anything else, what we teach others is good, becomes good...so what if God had allowed the evils of these other religions, other gods to continue on? How differently would our society, our "moral code" be today if we have been taught by thousands of years of cultural teaching and morals, that slavery, human sacrifice, murder, rapes, etc. would all be legally and religiously okay.....I really don't think that is the kind of society I would want to know up close....consider the times in scripture where God ordered either first hand or by the hand of His people to destroy a group of people... each and every case, involved people whose evil was out of check, over the limit......now this is not to say God was right or wrong, but rather to say that God opened the door for us as a people today to have the morals that we do. Just a thought for what it's worth.

History is written by the winners. It's hard to tell who was the aggressor back in those times. It was a pretty violent life for most groups of people back then.

Think about it- if a group of people start to invade a land, and claim that their god has given them that land- who are the aggressors? They claim that it was their right and they don't care what gods other people have, so why should those people respect the god of the invaders and just step aside? It's like when America claimed all this land for itself and pushed the natives out of what had always been the land of their people- then pointed out how violent the natives are.