Did benny deny the unam sanctum?

[TraderJack]

I've seen some accusations of this being
directed at our commander in chief.

and they are correct.

 

[TraderJack]

part of my fan club has dropped by.

Good to see you.

 

[Thekla]

Sorry if this is a silly question, but why would a non-RC care about what the Pope says re: defective/non-defective???

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You think Rome is your friend.

Here is what Rome thinks of your denomination:

Other Christian communities are either defective or not true churches and Catholicism provides the only true path to salvation,"
B16

So, your best bet is to go ahead and swim the Tiber, so you won't be "defective" and "not true" as the pope says.

Tiber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Tiber (Latin Tiberis, Italian Tevere) is the third-longest river in Italy, rising in the Apennine mountains in Emilia-Romagna and flowing 406 kilometres through Umbria and Lazio to the Tyrrhenian Sea. It drains a basin estimated at 18,000 km². The river has achieved lasting fame as the main watercourse of the city of Rome, founded on its eastern banks...............

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So when RCs refer to the Tiber, that is in reference to the Vatican in Rome? Never much understood that until TJ just brought it up.
I found 2 threads on it but the only significant River I can find in the NT is the Euphrates in Reve [ooops I forgot about the Jordan River]

Reve 16:12 And the sixth one pours out the bowl of him on the River, the Great eufrathn <2166> and is-dried up the Water of it/him that may be being made ready the way of the kings, the-ones from rising of-sun.

http://www.christianforums.com/t3292756/
6 Theologians Cross the Tiber

http://www.christianforums.com/t2562180/
Greetings from the Shores of the Tiber

 

[tz620q]

Calvin and Luther make a spiffy couple

A thought struck me the other day that most apologists use the poor training of the Catholic priests at the time of the Reformation as a criticism of the church without recognizing that Luther and Calvin were both Catholic priests.

So I thought, well these must have been the superstars of Catholicism that rose like theological meteors to the heights of heaven; but looking at the early life of these two shows no real promise of going anywhere within the church.

So my next thought was that their being overlooked was the source of their discontent. Only by protesting against the church could they get any recognition from the church. If you don't follow this line of thought, just think back to your place of work and you will find many examples of this line of thought.

But why would these men who supposedly stood on the Bible alone care about what the Catholic church thought about them? Bang! I arrived at why anyone would post the OP of this thread.

I can see all the nay-sayers shaking their heads and thinking that they are driven by truth alone; but I challenge you then to stand on truth and what was actually said by Pope Benedict XVI and not on opinions and polemics.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Sorry if this is a silly question, but why would a non-RC care about what the Pope says re: defective/non-defective???

Actually, this is an excellent question. I, for one, don't have the slightest interest in what the Pope says. I simply view the Popes as good politicians who skillfully mold the party's line to fit the present culture. In this particular instance one Pope found it significant to mold the party line as an exclusive club and the present Popes have found that to be an inconvenient truth and have remolded it to be more inclusive.

 

[tz620q]

Actually, this is an excellent question. I, for one, don't have the slightest interest in what the Pope says. I simply view the Popes as good politicians who skillfully mold the party's line to fit the present culture. In this particular instance one Pope found it significant to mold the party line as an exclusive club and the present Popes have found that to be an inconvenient truth and have remolded it to be more inclusive.

This is a good synopsis if one looks at it from only the current viewpoint without digging into the history of Unam Sanctum and Lumen Gentium.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus I am having a hard time finding this 2007 document, just a little news on it.

FOXNews.com - Pope: Other Christian Denominations Not True Churches - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy — For the second time in a week, Pope Benedict XVI has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, reasserting the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church and saying other Christian communities were either defective or not true churches.

The new document -- formulated as five questions and answers -- restates key sections of a 2000 text the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, "Dominus Iesus," which riled Protestant, Lutheran and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation."

I just read the document.
Although the theme and statments are of this nature.

it side steps in a way too?

Can't have your cake and eat it too, if this is the case.

I would like to see how Catholics see this.

Me too

 

[tz620q]

Me too

Here is the link to the Vatican document presenting the 5 questions and answers that Simon was talking about. This seems to be what started all the discord.

Responses to Some Questions Regarding Certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by OrthodoxyUSA Unam Sanctum is a flame.

Forgive me...

Or a lifeline.

Do you truly seek forgiveness?

Elaborate on "lifeline"

 

[MrPolo]

orry if this is a silly question, but why would a non-RC care about what the Pope says re: defective/non-defective???

Some genuinely believe they must tear down the Pope in order to be a true Christian. Others are ex-Catholics who breakup with the Catholic Church and can only speak of Her like a bitter divorcee who no longer can say a good thing about their ex-partner, emotions run high. Still others enjoy rolling in the muddy pen of victimhood.

 

[MrPolo]

Man's doctrines (i.e. Calvin, Wesley, Luther, Pope and others) are not truth.

You wouldn't include Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Jude, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc.. on this list? They were men after all...

 

[Ame4]

Some genuinely believe they must tear down the Pope in order to be a true Christian. Others are ex-Catholics who breakup with the Catholic Church and can only speak of Her like a bitter divorcee who no longer can say a good thing about their ex-partner, emotions run high. Still others enjoy rolling in the muddy pen of victimhood.

And others don't.

 

[JimfromOhio]

You wouldn't include Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Jude, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc.. on this list? They were men after all...

The differences may be God chosen men (i.e. Prophets, Apostles and etc) while other men were called through other means (Holy Spirit).

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Some genuinely believe they must tear down the Pope in order to be a true Christian. Others are ex-Catholics who breakup with the Catholic Church and can only speak of Her like a bitter divorcee who no longer can say a good thing about their ex-partner, emotions run high. Still others enjoy rolling in the muddy pen of victimhood.

Can we help if the your Pope and Denomination view those outside of Rome and the Papacy as defective, ignorant and practically non-Christian?

For myself I ain't out to tear down your pope, I just ask the he look at those of us non RCs as being just as much Christian as he and his Denomination view themselves as. Is that asking for much?

 

[Zoness]

Good thing Luther made it possible for Arminius to spread his heresy without execution by Rome, eh?

Funny how you use the word heresy like Calvinism is Roman doctrine or something. Just sayin

 

[narnia59]

Can we help if the your Pope and Denomination view those outside of Rome and the Papacy as defective, ignorant and practically non-Christian?

For myself I ain't out to tear down your pope, I just ask the he look at those of us non RCs as being just as much Christian as he and his Denomination view themselves as. Is that asking for much?

I believe the intent of what was stated regarding 'defects' pertains to doctrines, not individuals.

I would like to have a source for "ignorant" and non-Christian? I thought the pope was pretty clear when he said others are "deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation.", and that he could "affirm correctly that the Church of Christ is present and operative" within other Christian groups. That translates to "non-Christian" how??

And since the last time I checked, the EO considers all others to be heretics and forbids even praying with those outside the EO group of churches, it seems to me that the pope is one up on you guys as it currently stands.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I believe the intent of what was stated regarding 'defects' pertains to doctrines, not individuals.

I would like to have a source for "ignorant" and non-Christian? I thought the pope was pretty clear when he said others are "deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation.", and that he could "affirm correctly that the Church of Christ is present and operative" within other Christian groups. That translates to "non-Christian" how??

And since the last time I checked, the EO considers all others to be heretics and forbids even praying with those outside the EO group of churches, it seems to me that the pope is one up on you guys as it currently stands.

Do you really want to go the route of an Orthodox vs RCC "boxing match" here? This thread is not about the Orthodox or even non-RCs but Unam Sanctum.

As far as the OP specifically, it has already been answered by a RC concerning your pope approving of Unam Sanctum.
Have you read thru all of the posts on this thread yet?

If benny is a flippant reference to Pope Benedict XVI, the answer to the subject line is no.

 

[narnia59]

Do you really want to go the route of an Orthodox vs RCC "boxing match" here? This thread is not about the Orthodox or even non-RCs but Unam Sanctum.

No, I don't like boxing matches at all. I am simply wondering in light of your chastisement of me, why you chose to pick up the gloves at all, and ventured off the thread topic as you did? And why that was okay in your view?