Somebody has got to do something!

[Nadiine]

Thank you.But can you name any examples of signs that are being seen today that have never been seen before?

Again, if you don't look into this and study it/ listen to prophecy
teachers, you won't have a clue what's going on.

The biggest sign that is unmistakable is Israel becoming her own
nation again and sovereign over the land.

here's another link you can look at
http://www.raptureready.com/
While I may not personally embrace every single issue on this site,
it gives a good overview of things and has articles of interest.
Jan Markell is quite interesting, she has a good website of her own
and does alot of interviews w/ people who have fascinating info.
her latest report:
http://www.raptureready.com/featured/markell/13.html
her site w/ TONS of info -
http://www.olivetreeviews.org/ (it's not a pretty site, but packed w/ good info).

I just might do that. However, I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that I bet there have been a lot more dreams predicting bad things in the future than there have ever been actual bad things in the future.

'feeling' like the end of the world is coming has been going on
since the bible wrote of an apocalypse... the key is that ALL the
signs show up and intensify at one time.
This isn't random and isolated incidents anymore; it's the culmination
of them that make them all the more significant.

I mean, I just don't see any reason to see THIS "the end is nigh" as different to the hundreds of previous ones. If you have anything specific that makes this one differnt to all the others, I'd love to hear about it.

I doubt that you do - have you STUDIED this at all with the
scripture references?
Until you take the time to go thru God's word and research this,
you probly won't see anything and remain the skeptic.

 

[gracechick]

I have to wonder at so many people who are believers that seem to ignore Israel???? If they have the mind of Christ they should have the love He has for His earthly people. Perhaps it is a deception the satan uses with Israel. Why in God's beautiful green earth should Christians be so cool to Jewish people? I'm sure Christ grieves alot over such a thing.

Besides Israel becoming a nation was like an alarm and a warning "red alert". For watch Israel to Know the season. By all that is Holy believers ought to be jumping up and down and looking up...and very seriously praying for the unsaved.

 

[LightHorseman]

Every Christian I know or talk to and Pastors/teachers I've heard share this identical urgency due to the signs.

I have a book called "The 4 Horsemen" and it is an indepth view of 3 periods where Christians were absolutely positive that the end of the World was upon them, starting with the first millenialists in the 10th Century, then again in the 13th Century, largely due to all the Wars in Europe, and then the biggest one was post Luther Europe during the reformation, people KNEW the apocalypse was upon them, the same way you KNOW the Sun will come up tommorrow. And yet, seems they were mistaken. So forgive me for pointing it out, but personal conviction that the apocalypse is about to start isn't actually that great at telling us when the Apocalypse is about to start.

 

[LightHorseman]

I have to wonder at so many people who are believers that seem to ignore Israel???? If they have the mind of Christ they should have the love He has for His earthly people. Perhaps it is a deception the satan uses with Israel. Why in God's beautiful green earth should Christians be so cool to Jewish people? I'm sure Christ grieves alot over such a thing.

Besides Israel becoming a nation was like an alarm and a warning "red alert". For watch Israel to Know the season. By all that is Holy believers ought to be jumping up and down and looking up...and very seriously praying for the unsaved.

Israel has been its own country for quite a while now though. Like I was saying to Jen before, back in the 40s during the War, I could buy that things were worse than ever before and the whole world was in turmoil. Then with the British Palestinian mandate creating Israel right after the War, then sure, I can see that as a clear sign... but then... nothing. The world has stabilised and we have had unprecedented prosperity and improvement in quality of life ever since. If there was a continuing downward trend since Israel's inception, then yeah, I could see the sense of the argument, but that isn't how things have turned out.

 

[Nadiine]

Israel has been its own country for quite a while now though. Like I was saying to Jen before, back in the 40s during the War, I could buy that things were worse than ever before and the whole world was in turmoil. Then with the British Palestinian mandate creating Israel right after the War, then sure, I can see that as a clear sign... but then... nothing. The world has stabilised and we have had unprecedented prosperity and improvement in quality of life ever since. If there was a continuing downward trend since Israel's inception, then yeah, I could see the sense of the argument, but that isn't how things have turned out.

I think this is a misnomer that people are viewing about end times.

The signs are not just involving "evil" itself - it's a culmination of
MANY signs that include the evil.
Deception grows too - we see deception more now than in any era
of time I know of on a mass scale.

We even have people claiming that we can't know what the Bible
teaches

I forgot to add another sign that is VERY prevalent today; and has
been prevalent over the past 20 yrs.
apostacy from the faith. A large falling away.
This one is beyond obvious and blatant today - not only in our
pulpits, but in the church body as they veer away from sound
doctrine to embrace demonic doctrines instead.

I'll also say this, we live in a time of very serious violence
and increased immorality on a massive scale (including general
hostility against Christians/Christianity/God/righteousness-holiness)

When we're accustomed to this every day, we're going to grow
apathetic to evil and rebellion. It's even happening to us as
Christians to some degree.
When mass immorality and violence are considered "normal", we'll
hardly view ourselves as "worse than prior civilizations".
We're incapable of objective evaluation of evil in fact.

Jesus Himself said that evil will wax worse - as well as those who decieve
and are being decieved. At a time when all these signs we were
given have occurred and increased in intensity and speed, I'm not
going to deny what Jesus said as if it's false.

It is either increasing, or Jesus is wrong.

this site gives a few more verses for us to compare things
with. Again, isolated things don't lead us to think we're so
close - but when they are added up and compared with
world events, I think it's significant.

http://www.end-times.info/

 

[LightHorseman]

Deception grows too - we see deception more now than in any era
of time I know of on a mass scale.

Really? So, like, more than Under Goebels propaganda campaigns? More than during the Colonisation of Africa and the new world?

How do you figure?

I forgot to add another sign that is VERY prevalent today; and has
been prevalent over the past 20 yrs.
apostacy from the faith. A large falling away.
This one is beyond obvious and blatant today - not only in our
pulpits, but in the church body as they veer away from sound
doctrine to embrace demonic doctrines instead.

Wosre that the reformation? Worse than the inception of Islam? Really?

I'll also say this, we live in a time of very serious violence
and increased immorality on a massive scale (including general
hostility against Christians/Christianity/God/righteousness-holiness)

Baloney regarding the violence. The world is safer than it has been for... well, actually ever, as far as i can see it.

I don't see a particularly grievous amount of anti-Christian sentiment either. I mean, we are still the largest religion on Earth, last I checked.

Jesus Himself said that evil will wax worse - as well as those who decieve
and are being decieved. At a time when all these signs we were
given have occurred and increased in intensity and speed, I'm not
going to deny what Jesus said as if it's false.

It is either increasing, or Jesus is wrong.

OR... it isn't happening yet.

this site gives a few more verses for us to compare things
with. Again, isolated things don't lead us to think we're so
close - but when they are added up and compared with
world events, I think it's significant.

I already admitted Jen's conclusions were compelling. However, the signs observed by the millenialists in the 900s were compelling to them too.

So, do you have a prediction you'd like to make for when this is all going to culminate in some phenomenon unambiguously Biblical?

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

http://www.raptureready.com/ that site is a pile of rubbish.

 

[Nadiine]

http://www.raptureready.com/ that site is a pile of rubbish.

the entire site isn't garbage - I do object to some things they
promote or list,
my goal here is to just provide links to pages that offer SOME
or alot of verses that people can cross check with world events
and culture.

Not so much all the detailed stuff. Some of it is accurate, some of it
is reaching. But that's based on OUR view of end times, not
necessarily somebody elses.

The general verses and info are helpful and provide some foundation
to work with.
People can read and make up their own minds what they'll take
from it or reject.

 

[Nadiine]

Really? So, like, more than Under Goebels propaganda campaigns? More than during the Colonisation of Africa and the new world?

How many religions existed at the time of Adam & Eve when God
was with them directly in the garden?
How many religions & spiritist worldviews exist today?

That isn't escalation?

How do you figure?Wosre that the reformation? Worse than the inception of Islam? Really?Baloney regarding the violence. The world is safer than it has been for... well, actually ever, as far as i can see it.

unless you're an infant in the womb....
or a Christian in other hostile countries (wanna check the stats on
Christian persecution around the world that is higher today
than all the past combined?) -

Safety doesn't negate increase of violence does it? MANY countries
are not "safe" for alot of people residing within them.
Ask the Chinese, ask the North Koreans, ask Iranians, Ask Afghanistani's
how "safe" things are. There are many more to add too - ask our military.

I don't see a particularly grievous amount of anti-Christian sentiment either. I mean, we are still the largest religion on Earth, last I checked.OR... it isn't happening yet.I already admitted Jen's conclusions were compelling. However, the signs observed by the millenialists in the 900s were compelling to them too.

sorry, we are NOT the largest religion on earth.
The minute they introduce actual DOCTRINE into the mix of these
lame polls, they fall off the charts into nonChristianity.
But.... I doubt you'll agree with the traditional definition of Christianity
right?
MANY don't today, and I claim that's part of the deception prophecy.

So, do you have a prediction you'd like to make for when this is all going to culminate in some phenomenon unambiguously Biblical?

What's to predict that already hasn't been predicted by Christian
teachers/leaders?
All you're going to see is more of the same at escalated rates.

The world is being prepped to recieve the antichrist - after seeing
the worship of Obama, a man who had ZERO political clout and
hadn't done ANYTHING to remotely be deserving of such homage,
we just saw how the antichrist will be welcomed by an adoring
world without having a clue.

People today lack discernment (this has come about from embracing
subjectivism/relativism - refusing absolutes.
Once the absolutes are discarded, they're open for the lie.
They seek temporary pleasure and will do anything and compromise anything to be satiated in their materialism.

 

[BernieEOD]

I have to wonder at so many people who are believers that seem to ignore Israel???? If they have the mind of Christ they should have the love He has for His earthly people. Perhaps it is a deception the satan uses with Israel. Why in God's beautiful green earth should Christians be so cool to Jewish people? I'm sure Christ grieves alot over such a thing.

Besides Israel becoming a nation was like an alarm and a warning "red alert". For watch Israel to Know the season. By all that is Holy believers ought to be jumping up and down and looking up...and very seriously praying for the unsaved.

Minor Problem: The Isreal we see today is, in the words of an actual Conservative Jewish Talk show host, "A socialist state, founded by socialists, run by socialists". He went on to proclaim "If Moses were in charge of Isreal today, he would wind up executing half its population!"

Isreal is in the same state of disobedience it was in under Ahab or any of the other bad Kings. To assure them that they are Gods people and shall be given victory against their enemies no matter how deeply they are in sin and disobedience is not blessing them. It is parroting every false prophet who ever spoke to them. Isreal will suffer as they have never sufered before. And all the wonder weapons we give them will not prevent that. In fact, their faith in American wonder weapons is part of thier problem. This does not support the position of Isreals enemies for God NEVER uses HIS PEOPLE to punish them but rather allows the evil nations to have thier way for a short while. And then, these evil nations are judged and suffer worse than anything they ever did to Isreal.

The point is, Assuring Isreal that they are Gods chosen people and deserve victory is not blessing them. It is showereing them with the words of the false Prophets. If one wishes to truly bless them, one shousl echo the Lords call to repent. Until the Jews finally confess that the one their forfathers sent to the Cross was indeed the Messiah, they will continue to suffer and all the American wonder weapons will not save them. Like the real Prophets before us, we will not be well recieved by the Jews or for that matter, anyone who embraces the worlds current rebellion against God. My personal experience is that the average Jew is as far from Moses as he is from Christ. I thought I could establish some common ground with Jews by starting with Moses. No luck. The Average Jew will tell you that Moses is no longer the moral standard. That Moses simply meant well but didn't has access to modern science. And here is the crux of the problem.

 

[BernieEOD]

Just because America is about to fall from superpower status, people believe the end times are near. it is arrogant to believe that only the end times can bring us down.
This could be just another empire about to fall and another picking up the scepter of world power.

 

[Nadiine]

Just because America is about to fall from superpower status, people believe the end times are near. it is arrogant to believe that only the end times can bring us down.
This could be just another empire about to fall and another picking up the scepter of world power.

exactly - and that IS a huge change that can and would prompt
further prophetical fulfillment.

We don't believe that end times are near JUST becuz of America's
questionable economic situation - we combine ALL the signs together.

This seems to be a pattern from skeptics and scoffers of prophecy
that they go after ONE sign and think that is why we think we're
in the end times.

Biblically, the end times started when Jesus arrived on earth.
WE ARE in the "end times", it's a matter of how close we are
to the end in when to look up and expect that eminent return
of Christ to judge and restore His creation to the glory He
intended for it.

And I've heard Chuck Missler teach that China will be the
superpower in the last days - that definitely plays into
prophecy since China is a big player in prophetic events.

America has been on shakey ground since Americans basically
have no savings (per household) to speak of.
And are in massive credit card debt. Nevermind the govt.
overspending/going into massive debt.

I almost think collapse is inevitable in some way.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Really? So, like, more than Under Goebels propaganda campaigns? More than during the Colonisation of Africa and the new world?

How do you figure?Wosre that the reformation? Worse than the inception of Islam? Really?Baloney regarding the violence. The world is safer than it has been for... well, actually ever, as far as i can see it.

I don't see a particularly grievous amount of anti-Christian sentiment either. I mean, we are still the largest religion on Earth, last I checked.OR... it isn't happening yet.I already admitted Jen's conclusions were compelling. However, the signs observed by the millenialists in the 900s were compelling to them too.

So, do you have a prediction you'd like to make for when this is all going to culminate in some phenomenon unambiguously Biblical?

Psalm 83 is being fulfilled right now. It will soon be followed by Ezek 28:24-26, Isaiah 17, Ezek 38 and Joel 2 which, in my opinion, are all describing the same thing in different ways.

In Isaiah and Jeremiah, God allows things to happen or "run their course" for 70 years and then a change comes.

Psa 90:10The length of our days is seventy years-- or eighty, if we have the strength; yet their span is but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away.

Isa 23:15At that time Tyre will be forgotten for seventy years, the span of a king's life. But at the end of these seventy years, it will happen to Tyre as in the song of the prostitute:

Isa 23:17At the end of seventy years, the Lord will deal with Tyre. She will return to her hire as a prostitute and will ply her trade with all the kingdoms on the face of the earth.



Jer 25:12"But when the seventy years are fulfilled, I will punish the king of Babylon and his nation, the land of the Babylonians, for their guilt," declares the Lord, "and will make it desolate forever.

Jer 29:10This is what the Lord says: "When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my gracious promise to bring you back to this place.


Now, Israel has been a nation again for 61 years (1948). (However, the holocaust ended in 1945) By the end of the 70 years (which could be cut short based on Matt 24), a major change will have taken place if ...hmmm...it just hit me that it's speaking of Tyre and Babylon....the West is considered the world power today...has it been in power 70 years? The US came out of the Depression and joined WW2 in 1939-1941...and we've been strong ever since...that's certainly coming up on 70 years and now look at what's happening to us. Hmmm....
WOW...if that's not a major sign, I don't know what is....because we are losing our super-power status and we'll be lucky if our quality of life resembles what it has been for the last 70 years....and a global government is on the horizon which is what is prophecied.

 

[gracechick]

Minor Problem: The Isreal we see today is, in the words of an actual Conservative Jewish Talk show host, "A socialist state, founded by socialists, run by socialists". He went on to proclaim "If Moses were in charge of Isreal today, he would wind up executing half its population!"

Isreal is in the same state of disobedience it was in under Ahab or any of the other bad Kings. To assure them that they are Gods people and shall be given victory against their enemies no matter how deeply they are in sin and disobedience is not blessing them. It is parroting every false prophet who ever spoke to them. Isreal will suffer as they have never sufered before. And all the wonder weapons we give them will not prevent that. In fact, their faith in American wonder weapons is part of thier problem. This does not support the position of Isreals enemies for God NEVER uses HIS PEOPLE to punish them but rather allows the evil nations to have thier way for a short while. And then, these evil nations are judged and suffer worse than anything they ever did to Isreal.

The point is, Assuring Isreal that they are Gods chosen people and deserve victory is not blessing them. It is showereing them with the words of the false Prophets. If one wishes to truly bless them, one shousl echo the Lords call to repent. Until the Jews finally confess that the one their forfathers sent to the Cross was indeed the Messiah, they will continue to suffer and all the American wonder weapons will not save them. Like the real Prophets before us, we will not be well recieved by the Jews or for that matter, anyone who embraces the worlds current rebellion against God. My personal experience is that the average Jew is as far from Moses as he is from Christ. I thought I could establish some common ground with Jews by starting with Moses. No luck. The Average Jew will tell you that Moses is no longer the moral standard. That Moses simply meant well but didn't has access to modern science. And here is the crux of the problem.

Yes I realize all of that, but how much better does the state of the church appear when compared to Israel? Not much better. The Lord is the Lord and the Jews are the chosen people He used to send Jesus to us and that is good enough for me

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

Yes I realize all of that, but how much better does the state of the church appear when compared to Israel? Not much better. The Lord is the Lord and the Jews are the chosen people He used to send Jesus to us and that is good enough for me

the 'jews' were the chosen people. when 'the church' has managed to commit mass murder, in recent times, then i will agree with that.

 

[BernieEOD]

The problem is when we try to assure Isreal that as Gods Chosen people, they can do no wrong and advocate giving them all the advanced weaponry they could ever hope to use and assure them God will grant them victory no matter how far they go astray. Our message to Isreal should be the same as the message too many of our Churches need......REPENT!

 

[Nadiine]

The problem is when we try to assure Isreal that as Gods Chosen people, they can do no wrong and advocate giving them all the advanced weaponry they could ever hope to use and assure them God will grant them victory no matter how far they go astray. Our message to Isreal should be the same as the message too many of our Churches need......REPENT!

who's "we"? a "Christian" nation who's fallen into secular humanism?

Who's America to judge Israel's spiritual condition?? Certainly
not us. And since Christianity doesn't reign in the White House
or thruout the country, we should align with Israel and support
her as God's people.

Let God worry about how He will bring her around or judge her.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

The problem is when we try to assure Isreal that as Gods Chosen people, they can do no wrong and advocate giving them all the advanced weaponry they could ever hope to use and assure them God will grant them victory no matter how far they go astray. Our message to Isreal should be the same as the message too many of our Churches need......REPENT!

Um, technically, they've been promised the victory from their thorny neighbors and the Northern armies. God has protected them since their rebirth.

It's the anti-christ's armies that will test them.

 

[LightHorseman]

How many religions existed at the time of Adam & Eve when God
was with them directly in the garden?
How many religions & spiritist worldviews exist today?

That isn't escalation?

Adam and Eve didn't really exist, they are an ALLEGORY...

But, yes, there are more religions today than in the ancient past. However... there are fewer religions today than there were 200 years ago. Thanks colonialism!

unless you're an infant in the womb....
or a Christian in other hostile countries (wanna check the stats on
Christian persecution around the world that is higher today
than all the past combined?) -

While its true that a Christian in Iran might have a hard time of it, most Christians don't live in Iran. Most Christians live in Europe and the Americas, where there isn't any persecution.

But please, if you have any clear stats to show that Christians are more persecuted than, of the top of my head, say, the Jews, I'd be happy to read them.

And even if every single abortion is a despicable murder of the worst kind, people are STILL generally safer today than at any time previously. For most of history, quite literally until about 300 years ago, there was a very real possibility that any given child would die before his 8th birthday or be taken into forced servitude either by infection or hostile military action. Simply nowhere near as much risk of that today. Thats why the population has bloomed so tremendously in, gosh, the last...300 years?

Safety doesn't negate increase of violence does it? MANY countries
are not "safe" for alot of people residing within them.
Ask the Chinese, ask the North Koreans, ask Iranians, Ask Afghanistani's
how "safe" things are. There are many more to add too - ask our military.

What endemic violence are the majority of Chinese, North Koreans, or Iranians subject to?

And yes, it isn't safe being in the military. But, (and I say this as a veteran of Iraq) its a heck of a lot safer to be an infantryman in Iraq today than it was to be an infantryman on the Western Front in 1916.

sorry, we are NOT the largest religion on earth.
The minute they introduce actual DOCTRINE into the mix of these
lame polls, they fall off the charts into nonChristianity.
But.... I doubt you'll agree with the traditional definition of Christianity
right?
MANY don't today, and I claim that's part of the deception prophecy.

Nicene Creed afirming Christianity is the largest religion on Earth today, last I checked.

Or are you claiming that that isn't "True" Christianity?

What's to predict that already hasn't been predicted by Christian
teachers/leaders?
All you're going to see is more of the same at escalated rates.

Your claims of escalated rates are spurious.

The world is being prepped to recieve the antichrist - after seeing
the worship of Obama, a man who had ZERO political clout and
hadn't done ANYTHING to remotely be deserving of such homage,
we just saw how the antichrist will be welcomed by an adoring
world without having a clue.

Obama won. Get over it. Calling him the anti-Christ isn't going to change anything, and it makes you look silly the longer he goes on NOT having actual horns and a forked tail. Feel free to say "I told you so" when he starts making everyone get 666 tattoos and leads an army of all the world to Megidoo, but until then, give it up.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Adam and Eve didn't really exist, they are an ALLEGORY...

If they are an allegory, then YOU are an allegory.

Adam was the first man, created by God. Eve was created by God from Adam. Adam MULTIPLIED via SEX between male and female Adam-kind.

Christ died as a KINSMAN REDEEMER to ADAM!

I'm trying not to be disrespectful here but