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BigBadWlf
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Maybe the first gay right you need to look at is the rights of gays and lesbians to be seen as people not sins or victims of Satan
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
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But perhaps reworked from an earlier rabbi's words:
Hillel said: "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Law; the rest is the explanation; go and learn"
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Works for me. It too would appear to OK mutually consentual monogomous homosexual relationships.
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BigBadWlf
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Maybe the first gay right you need to look at is the rights of gays and lesbians to be seen as people not sins or victims of Satan...or as sexual acts
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I don't think homosexuals define themselves by their homosexuality any more than anyone else does. Their sexuality seems to have a higher profile in their lives because of the struggle for equality. If homosexuals were accepted, then I doubt anyone would necesarily know the sexuality of any given individual without asking.
For example, I rent my house to a homosexual couple, whom I am also friends with. I stay with them when I am in that part of the world, and because we are firends, and I accept their homosexuality utterly, it simply isn't an issue. Spending time with them is just like spending time with any of my other friends. We discuss current events, film, music, hobbies, work, and militaria (we're all three of us army or ex Army). The discussion will occasionally turn to sex, but no more than it would with any of my heterosexual friends. So no, I simply can't agree that homosexuals "define themselves by their sexuality". Their sexuality IS a part of how they define themselves, but no more than any given heterosexual.
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psalm1:3
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we are all in the same boat. each of us are all tempted by both sides. God is calling us back, but on the other end, Satan is trying to scratch at scraps. Anyone who will turn to him. Don't you understand that you are in his control? Can you not tell the difference between when you feel upset and when you feel genuine happiness? Can a man be greater than God? Did you create the very ground you are standing on? Did you create the mountains, the oceans, the birds, the animals who roam earth? Can you create these things simply by your word? You are equal to us. So if you are equal, then musn't there be someone greater than us? Open your eyes. Look around your room for a moment (simply assuming that you are in some sort of room; unless you are typing along the road somewhere). But look around. Take a moment. Where did all this come from? I can hardly believe that 2 atoms collided together in space one time and created all that we see. Why can you not believe? What has made you to stumble?
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Excellent. Perhaps I misunderstood one of your earlier posts. If I misunderstood or mischarecterised you in my haste, I apologise.I have never argued against such relationships.
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I accept God, but I don't see Satan as some evil being trying to drag me into the depths of Hell. But, I'm not a Christian, and I do understand that's part of the theology. It just seems weird that one sin seems to be placed higher than others by people who are in no danger of practicing it.
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psalm1:3
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to lighthorseman: you say gays don't go about defining themselves by their sexuality, yet i don't ever hear about heterosexuality parades
But still, if I lived with gays, I wouldn't mind. I would state my feelings to them, and then leave it be. Same as when my friend told me that she was going to become a witch. I told her how I felt with love, but i respected her enough to leave it at that. Not once since, have I brought up the subject again. We are still great friends. Also, I have had gay friends, and I NEVER treated them any different. They were my friends before they came out, why wouldn't they be after? They are still spirits of God. His children.
But still, if I lived with gays, I wouldn't mind. I would state my feelings to them, and then leave it be. Same as when my friend told me that she was going to become a witch. I told her how I felt with love, but i respected her enough to leave it at that. Not once since, have I brought up the subject again. We are still great friends. Also, I have had gay friends, and I NEVER treated them any different. They were my friends before they came out, why wouldn't they be after? They are still spirits of God. His children.
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No worries! From my point of view, we should be free to live as we please as long as we are not directly harming another person.
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BigBadWlf
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You do realize that gays and leasing do experience genuine happiness and joy just as often (if not more so) as heterosexuals right?
It seems you havent read much about universal origins theories
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I contend that if homosexuals were given equal rights and accepted in society, they wouldn't have such parades either. Those parades are about raising their issues and heightening public awareness. Personally, I find them fairly distasteful, but it is a tactic to promote equality. If you think it is merely because homosexuals define themselves thusly, I rather think you're missing the point.
Consider, if YOU were a member of a villified minority with a history of being persecuted by an uncarring society that traditionally looked the other way, do you think possibly YOU might try to raise your public profile or social awareness? And if so, would that mean you therefore defined yourself by your membership in that minority?
As for your claim that there aren't "heterosexual parades", just what do you think New Orleans Mardis Gras and Rio's Carnivale are?
If what you say in this paragraph is true, I can respect your position.
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psalm1:3
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in all things there is opposition. our whole lives show this. if you look at the big picutre - from history lessons in school, to stories from the past - to life today, there has always been an opposition from two sides. the good and the bad. these two sides have names. we are the only creatures on earth who are smarter, have greater dominion, and power on earth than any other creature. this makes us unique and important. the opposition sees us and wants to destroy our one chance for victory. as princes and princesses of a most righteous God, he tempts us, and brings us down, making us think that we are the ones who choose this, that these are our thoughts. HE DOESN'T WANT TO SEE US SUCCEED! We are at war! After him and his followers found out that because they opposed God that they were never allowed to recieve bodies such as ours, they became angry and plotted to forever bring us down and make sure that we would forget who we are, and do evil like them. He is jealous and will do anything, ANYTHING, to take from us the one thing that we can claim, and he can't - Eternal Life and Peace with a God who loves us and DOES want us to succeed - For this is the main reason that he sent us here. To become like him. Knowing good and evil, and have knowledge beyond all things.
We are greater than we know. We are more than the lives we live. Day in, day out, working, eating, sleeping, working, eating, sleeping. I feel for the person who bases their lives upon nothing, and has to live in the misery of the one taunts him day in, day out.
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BigBadWlf
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pride parades have no more to do with sex than St. Patricks Day Parades.
Both celebrate groups of people with culture and history and do so with a sense of fun.
You rally need to start viewing gays and lesbians as actual people
I wonder if your gay friends would agree
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Thats pretty much my position. I try to maintain it for everyone, although some cases are more difficult than others to maintain my objectivity towards. But yes, I believe "let people do what they want, so long as their activities are mutually consentual and don't unduely harm a non-consenting third party" is the practical application of christ's new commandment.
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Why exactly would an angel decide to stand in the way of God, to fight Him in a war that the angel knows would be completely unwinable? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Further, why would this angel be allowed back into Heaven, and instead of God doing anything about it, God simply asks, "Where have you been?"
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psalm1:3
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I love my girl friends, and that love is called friendship, but if I touch them in a defiling way, that is wrong. Who am I to touch another member of my own sex that way and still call it ok? Should I then run out into the streets proclaiming that I touched a girl and I liked it?
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