An example why Gay agenda undermines religious freedom

[mpok1519]

interesting, cause I remember Prop 8 being passed. Looks like our form of culture is more important than you think.

Peope were saying the same things when they were trying to keep blacks as slaves and women voteless; they felt their form of culture was a tad more important than HUMAN RIGHTS.


All cultue is important; but a lift on the ban on gay marriage in no way shape or form threatens, demeans or devalues any other culture. Thats what the radical rigt seems not to get; they feel threatened if a gay couple is allowed to marry, and god-forbid, kiss each other in front of your children! ooh noooooo!

 

[Polycarp1]

Relative to David Brider's first point in post #180, I am a casual acquaintance of the Rt. Rev. John Shelby Spong, retired bishop in the (denominational) church to which I belong, and interested in his theology. The local "Christian" bookstores did not stock his books, only one of the chain bookstores did, and that a long drive from my home. But the specialty "gay bookstore" (not a porn shop) carried most of them in their religion section, along with Daniel Helminiak, Walter Wink, and a few other authors. So my wife and I would frequent that store -- enjoying being the amusing specacle of a middle-aged heterosexual couple walking in hand-in-hand to find the books we were interested in.

 

[FlamingFemme]

Relative to David Brider's first point in post #180, I am a casual acquaintance of the Rt. Rev. John Shelby Spong, retired bishop in the (denominational) church to which I belong, and interested in his theology. The local "Christian" bookstores did not stock his books, only one of the chain bookstores did, and that a long drive from my home. But the specialty "gay bookstore" (not a porn shop) carried most of them in their religion section, along with Daniel Helminiak, Walter Wink, and a few other authors. So my wife and I would frequent that store -- enjoying being the amusing specacle of a middle-aged heterosexual couple walking in hand-in-hand to find the books we were interested in.

And you weren't discriminated against for being heterosexual??
Surely, you jest.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To David Brider,

For one thing, this term you're bandying about - "gay book". No such thing.

I tend to agree with you yet that would mean there is no such thing as a gay bookshop which is what the Advice agency’s article referred to.
But if the agency doesn’t know what its talking about concerning gay matters that’s worrying.

But if a hotel decides not to allow same-gender couples to book into double rooms but does allow opposite-gender couples to book into double rooms, that hotel is discriminating against same-gender couples.

No problem with that statement, the problem I have is why should a gay bookshop not then cater for heterosexuals.
You see there are specialist bookshops and I see no reason why there shouldn’t be gay specialist bookshops. A heterosexual would have to take whatever book is available there. There are also gay men only hotels, a heterosexual would have to accept the gay activities there and the nudity, but the law is saying as demonstrated with the Scottish hotel that a gay couple doesn’t have to take what is on offer in a hotel, the hotel must provide what the product they require.

All I am asking is that it should be equal.

So there's no real comparison between the two situations.

There is every comparison.

You seem to have missed PsychMJC's post pointing out that it's neither a hotel nor exclusive to people of any particular sexual orientation, but is rather some kind of men's club.

I am rather more interested that the Hotel advertises itself as a Hotel than what PsychMJC hasn’t spotted correctly

 

[Psudopod]

I'm going to repost this:

Okay, ignore the bookshop for a moment. Say I have a hotel. It has single and double rooms. A white couple come to stay and want a double room, so I rent it to them. Next week an interracial couple and want a double room. I say it is against my beliefs to allow a black man to sleep with a white woman, but I can let them have a twin room. Is my behaviour discrimatory?

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Psudopod,

Okay, ignore the bookshop for a moment.

ok

Say I have a hotel. It has single and double rooms. A white couple come to stay and want a double room, so I rent it to them. Next week an interracial couple and want a double room. I say it is against my beliefs to allow a black man to sleep with a white woman, but I can let them have a twin room. Is my behaviour discrimatory?

Yes, its not a racial issue but a sexual one. Simple as that, gays can’t see the reality of this. Gay is same sex attraction not same colour attraction.

No to the bookshop. If you don’t agree with ‘gay book’ you cant agree with a ‘gay bookshop’ which means one has the most widely recognised citizens advice agency giving advice that is not really correct, yet you don’t seem to be too bothered, you were more interested in trying to correct me.
Furthermore the hotel is not discriminating against the homosexual but against the homosexual couple. Loads of cases have existed where unmarried men and woman have been refused a shared double room and many parents will not let their children sleep with boyfriends/girlfriends in their house. Its only since gay rights has come in the whole thing is blown apart with gays shouting discrimination.

 

[Psudopod]

Say I have a hotel. It has single and double rooms. A white couple come to stay and want a double room, so I rent it to them. Next week an interracial couple and want a double room. I say it is against my beliefs to allow a black man to sleep with a white woman, but I can let them have a twin room. Is my behaviour discrimatory?
​

Yes, its not a racial issue but a sexual one. Simple as that, gays can’t see the reality of this. Gay is same sex attraction not same colour attraction.

Doesn't matter. The point is that it is wrong to offer a service to one group and not another, no matter what you might believe. If you are running a business, you have to follow business law. If a parent wants to forbid their children from sleeping together, that's completely different because they are not offereing a service to the general public.

 

[Psudopod]

Say I have a hotel. It has single and double rooms. A white couple come to stay and want a double room, so I rent it to them. Next week an interracial couple and want a double room. I say it is against my beliefs to allow a black man to sleep with a white woman, but I can let them have a twin room. Is my behaviour discrimatory?
​

Yes, its not a racial issue but a sexual one. Simple as that, gays can’t see the reality of this. Gay is same sex attraction not same colour attraction.

Doesn't matter. The point is that it is wrong to offer a service to one group and not another, no matter what you might believe. If you are running a business, you have to follow business law. If a parent wants to forbid their children from sleeping together, that's completely different because they are not offereing a service to the general public.

 

[David Brider]

To Psudopod,
ok

Yes, its not a racial issue but a sexual one. Simple as that, gays can’t see the reality of this. Gay is same sex attraction not same colour attraction.

Tell you what: Forget gay. Forget straight. Forget same-gender attraction. Forget opposite-gender attraction.

Say you run a hotel. You firmly believe that homosexuality is wrong.

Four groups of people arrive at your hotel to book rooms. You've got ample double rooms for them all, so space isn't an issue.

One group of people is a married, couple, a man and woman (or at least, they're signing in with the same surname). Another is an unmarried man and woman. Another is two men. Another is two women.

Which group, if any, do you turn away, or refuse a double room to? Bear in mind that you know absolutely nothing about what the people will be doing in their hotel room, or the exact nature of their relationships.

David.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To David Brider,

Tell you what: Forget gay. Forget straight. Forget same-gender attraction. Forget opposite-gender attraction.

Say you run a hotel. You firmly believe that homosexuality is wrong.

Wow hang on, whats homosexuality if it isn’t gay or same –gender attraction that I am supposed to forget?

Four groups of people arrive at your hotel to book rooms. You've got ample double rooms for them all, so space isn't an issue.

One group of people is a married, couple, a man and woman (or at least, they're signing in with the same surname). Another is an unmarried man and woman. Another is two men. Another is two women.

Which group, if any, do you turn away, or refuse a double room to? Bear in mind that you know absolutely nothing about what the people will be doing in their hotel room, or the exact nature of their relationships.

Ah now this is a good point. Personally I would definitely offer and grant the married couple a double room and would probably offer all the rest single rooms. If the double was cheaper and the other groups asked for it on that basis I might grant them the double.
Now let me ask you a question. Why would two friends even best friends want to share a double room? I have never wanted to share a double room or bed with a male friend, I prefer a room on my own. I certainly wouldn’t want to share with a female friend, that would be inappropriate. Why would anyone want to share a room? Sounds like sex could be the reason otherwise you wouldnt have needed to ask the question.

 

[Braunwyn]

Now let me ask you a question. Why would two friends even best friends want to share a double room? I have never wanted to share a double room or bed with a male friend, I prefer a room on my own. I certainly wouldn’t want to share with a female friend, that would be inappropriate. Why would anyone want to share a room? Sounds like sex could be the reason otherwise you wouldnt have needed to ask the question.

That is ridiculous. I have travelled with many girl friends through out the years and if two beds in the same room weren't available, than we'd share a king, just to save on costs. We certainly wouldn't get two rooms and spend an extra $100-150. Some people just don't like throwing money away. Go figure.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Braunwyn,

That is ridiculous. I have travelled with many girl friends through out the years and if two beds in the same room weren't available, than we'd share a king, just to save on costs. We certainly wouldn't get two rooms and spend an extra $100-150. Some people just don't like throwing money away. Go figure.

That’s pretty much what I said anyway. I think you are looking for an argument where one doesn’t exist. Two people wanting to share to save money or prepared to share when separate rooms don’t exit is different from a same sex couple presenting themselves as such and demanding a double room.

 

[SallyNow]

To Skaloop,
Sorry the logic is quite clear to many even if not to most here.
Its quite simple. The product of the book shop is a book, the product of a hotel is a room. The gay book doesnt cater for the straight and the double room doesn't cater for the same sex couple, yet the bookshop is allowed to discriminate in that way and the hotel isnt.
The fact is I have posted evidence before showing a hotel is not allowed to refuse a double room to a gay couple but a hotel can advertise and cater for gay men only.
You cant argue with that.

The product of a book shop is a book, the product of a hotel is a room. The antique book doesn't cater to young people. The antique book can only be sold to antique people.

Waaait. That doesn't make any sense, does it?

A "gay bookstore" doesn't refuse to sell books to heterosexuals or lesbians. It's not a bookstore that sells gay books. It's a bookstore that sells books that may be of special interest to gay, lesbian, bisexual, people and friends and family of gay, lesbian, and bisexual people and to people who just generally love books that may be hard to find in Borders or Chapters. It may sell novelss written by heterosexuals about gay characters, it may sell novels written by homosexuals about heterosexuals, it might sell books featuring art by homosexual artists, or history books that aren't readily available in more mainstream stores. In other words, it does appeal to people who want to learn along with homosexuals.

It's the same with other speciality bookstores. An bookstore specializing in art, for example, will sell books that are of interest to artists, but it won't sell exclusivly to artists. It will probably have art books, history books, books written by artists, books on art restoration, novels about artists, novels written by artists, religiously-themed art books, and so on and so forth. They sell to anyone and have a wide appeal outside of the professional artist. And their books will be of interest to people who aren't artists but just love art or history or the history of art.

 

[Braunwyn]

To Braunwyn,

That’s pretty much what I said anyway. I think you are looking for an argument where one doesn’t exist. Two people wanting to share to save money or prepared to share when separate rooms don’t exit is different from a same sex couple presenting themselves as such and demanding a double room.

Based on David's questions, I think it was about how would you know one way or another? You wouldn't.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Sallynow.
You see what makes sense to you doesn’t necessarily make sense to others.

The product of a book shop is a book, the product of a hotel is a room. The antique book doesn't cater to young people. The antique book can only be sold to antique people.

Waaait. That doesn't make any sense, does it?

it would if you removed the last sentence.

A "gay bookstore" doesn't refuse to sell books to heterosexuals or lesbians.

No one said it did, infact the article pointed out it cant. You have created a straw man and are pursuing it.
Sure the heterosexual can buy a ‘gay book’ no problem with that, but the homosexual can buy a room, no problem with that either.

 

[David Brider]

Ah now this is a good point. Personally I would definitely offer and grant the married couple a double room and would probably offer all the rest single rooms. If the double was cheaper and the other groups asked for it on that basis I might grant them the double.

But see the point that's already been made - as the provider of a public service, it's not up to you to make that decision. If the people in question have requested a double room, it's not your prerogative to say that they can't have one, unless there are genuinely none available.

Now let me ask you a question. Why would two friends even best friends want to share a double room?...Why would anyone want to share a room? Sounds like sex could be the reason otherwise you wouldnt have needed to ask the question.

Because it's cheaper to "roomie up", as I believe the expression goes. Sex doesn't have to be involved, so why do you assume that it could be?

I have never wanted to share a double room or bed with a male friend, I prefer a room on my own. I certainly wouldn’t want to share with a female friend, that would be inappropriate.

Personally, I wouldn't really want to share, as I value having my own space and a bit of silence and solitude first thing in the morning for my quiet time. But if cost were an issue, then I can see that I might be prepared to share, as long as it was someone I got on well with and who didn't snore.

David.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Braunwyn,

Based on David's questions, I think it was about how would you know one way or another? You wouldn't.

Based on my answer it shows I probaly would. If I offered two men separate rooms and the insisted on a double it would suggest their intention wasn't just to sleep.

 

[David Brider]

Based on David's questions, I think it was about how would you know one way or another? You wouldn't.

Exactly.

 

[David Brider]

To Braunwyn,
Based on my answer it shows I probaly would. If I offered two men separate rooms and the insisted on a double it would suggest their intention wasn't just to sleep.

But why would you want to offer them separate rooms if they've asked for a double?

David.

 

[b&wpac4]

To Braunwyn,
Based on my answer it shows I probaly would. If I offered two men separate rooms and the insisted on a double it would suggest their intention wasn't just to sleep.

I traveled pretty far with my half-brother once. We were heading to a funeral several states away. When we had to stay at a hotel, we tried to get a double so that we could save cash. We had different last names, but nobody ever gave us any trouble over it. You wouldn't have known one way or another what our intention was with the room.