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Lifetime's Prayers for Bobby

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CreedIsChrist

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Except in this case, it does nullify what was being said by you.
You have no authority to speak the truth of my life. None whatsoever.


Im not speaking by my own authority, but by the Churches, Holy Scripture, and the Communion of Saints. You cannot justify what your trying to justify by yourself, because 1. It is self defeating because its contrary to scripture and natural law 2. it shuts off the conjugal act of procreation 3. It goes against the God given authority of the Church, and 4. because you are simply one person with one opinion and thus have no authority to declare such

So again your personal opinion dosen't nullify the theological problems your opinion holds.
 
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ChaliceThunder

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Im not speaking by my own authority, but by the Churches, Holy Scripture, and the Communion of Saints. You cannot justify what your trying to justify by yourself, because 1. It is self defeating because its contrary to scripture and natural law 2. it shuts off the conjugal act of procreation 3. It goes against the God given authority of the Church, and 4. because you are simply one person with one opinion and thus have no authority to declare such

So again your personal opinion dosen't nullify the theological problems your opinion holds.

I've not tried to justify anything - only to testify to the truth of it.
And the church most certainly HAS proclaimed its blessing on it.
 
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CreedIsChrist

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For the sake of argument, I can understand where you, as a Christian, would bring up the issue to another Christian.

However, seeing that not all gay people are Christian, it seems silly to demand nonChristians to lead a life of celibacy, one that you don't do as example, but instead, demand of others, Christian or not, it appears.

A week ago, I remember feeling a bit down at all of the anger and animosity that I was sensing on the site. As a plea, I asked that Christians join me, and focus on loving your neighbor as themselves.

One "Christian" said that he didn't have to, and wouldn't listen to me, even though what I said was clearly a commandment of Jesus.

Another simply asked, "What does a Buddhist care about a Christian?"

I was asking as a favor, really, but the poster had a point.
So, I then have to ask - what does a Christian care about the lives of non-Christians?
Is there some verse that I'm missing where Jesus tells his disciples to spend most of their time telling other people how to live, while seemingly ignoring the 2x4 the grows from their eyes?
Is homosexuality the cruxt of the Bible? One would think so, because it is talked about so much.

But I don't get Christians telling Non Christians that they should listen to (the particular Christian's interpretation of) the bible, when I have seen so many Christians ignore it themselves.

I am convinced that those who harp and harp on homosexuality are just spiritual bullies. They spend a lot of time focusing on others to assuage the guilt, the lack of love, the perhaps arrogance, that they seem to embody.

The bible says that others will know Christians by their love.
Do they? And if they don't, is God wrong? Should the Christian take it to God in prayer? Should they spend time asking the HS about themselves, their sin, their lack of love?

I scour the Gospel, looking for this kind of Jesus. "Hey! Zaccheus! You are a THIEF! YOU NEED TO REPENT! I'M JESUS. IIIII DON"T SIN!"
Alas, Jesus sees him, and rather than demanding him to get down on his knees and repent, invites him to eat with him, a huge honor back then. And it changed him.

It was only the Pharisees who angered Jesus, who claimed to love God, even preach the Scripture in the Temple. But they were at war with Jesus, not even recognizing the God that they claimed to worship.

It's full of Jesus' mercy, his kindness, his pleas for us to love one another.
But something seems to have gotten lost in the translation.


beanie, while we may differ on theological grounds I do respect many of your posts and agree with a good amount of this one. I remember one person said that Christians themselves are the biggest argument against Christianity.

But in truth, we are all hypocrites in some way. The Church is a hospital for sinners and while we may differ on the issues of the justification of certain sins I do agree that we must all love one another as Christ has loved us. It is the most important commandment.

Homosexuality is talked about alot. But I think the legalizing of gay marriage has put the issue on the pedestal. I do pray one day most of the same sex community will find somone they love of the opposite sex and grow to have they're own children and familys. The same way a mother or father wants they're children one day to get married and have they're own children.
 
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PhilosophicalBluster

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Im not speaking by my own authority, but by the Churches, Holy Scripture, and the Communion of Saints.

No... You are, in fact, speaking by your own authority.

You cannot justify what your trying to justify by yourself, because
I'm pretty sure he's not the only one that supports the GLTB community. I mean, every other person on the E&M board seems to.

1. It is self defeating because its contrary to scripture and natural law
a) Arguments for homosexuality can be made with scripture b) what is this natural law you're talking about? A vast number of other species have naturally homosexual pairs.


2. it shuts off the conjugal act of procreation
So does being old, and being infertile. Why aren't you attacking these people equally?


3. It goes against the God given authority of the Church,
There are churches that sanctify gay marriages.


and 4. because you are simply one person with one opinion and thus have no authority to declare such


I share his opinion. Many people do. Besides, even if your bogus statement was true, he can 'declare' whatever he wants to declare. The Bill of Rights has more 'authority' than you do, sadly.


So again your personal opinion dosen't nullify the theological problems your opinion holds.
Your opinion doesn't define what is and isn't a theological problem.
 
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Maren

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I do pray one day most of the same sex community will find somone they love of the opposite sex and grow to have they're own children and familys. The same way a mother or father wants they're children one day to get married and have they're own children.

And to me, this sounds a lot like someone saying they hope one day we will have world peace. While a nice dream, it isn't likely to happen -- at least not anytime in the near future.

Currently, we know of no way for the vast majority of homosexuals to change their sexual orientation. It may, if you believe some of the statistics from ex-gay groups, be possible to change the orientation of a small minority of homosexuals. The evidence, however, would indicate that at best maybe 10% of all homosexuals might be able to change and, realistically (based on the comments of those that have researched ex-gay groups), that number is probably closer to about 2%.

Now maybe, someday, we will "fix" whatever causes people to be "born" (or whatever is the cause) homosexual -- I personally think it might happen about the same time we completely wipe out birth defects. In other words, sometime between not likely and never.

So it comes down to this, at least for me. Christians give lip service to the idea that fornication is a sin. Most of what I see, they do little to actually discourage or prevent it. As wrong as they may think it is, the fact is that most Christian youth end up fornicating at some point. Instead, Christians seems to dislike that it happens, preach against it, but are resigned to the fact it will happen and take comfort in knowing that almost all these fornicators will get married and 'repent' of their fornicating (though there is some question of how true the repentance is, if the majority ever really regret their fornication).

By contrast, these same Christians know that most homosexuals won't get married (to a woman), and even if they do, past results show they will have difficulty remaining married. So, they tell homosexuals they should be abstinent their entire lives.

And this is the point of this thread. Christians basically know that most of their own kids, prior to marriage, won't be able to refrain from sex for even a few years prior to getting married -- yet they somehow expect gays to remain celibate for decades? Evidence shows even priests -- who are allegedly the best of Christians and have sworn an oath to celibacy -- have problems remaining chaste and many break their oath at some point. So it seems a double standard for Christians to demand from homosexuals what they, themselves, seem unable to do.


And then there was Paul. Paul basically was the author of the idea that marriage is to prevent people from being separated from God because of sexual immorality. And, to prevent that, God gave marriage so that man "might not be alone". Better to marry than "to burn", as Paul stated it.

Now I understand that most Christians don't believe Paul meant this to extend to homosexuals -- nor am I trying to claim that is what Paul is saying. It does seem odd to me that Christians seem to prefer, knowing that homosexuals will have sex, that gays have sex with random strangers rather than wanting them, since they will sin anyway, to form a relationship with a single partner and forge a life together. Especially with the way relationships tend to improve individuals, not to mention the health problems that are caused by promiscuous lifestyles.
 
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