Pope, King of the world?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Again you are protraying your personal view and not that of Catholicism.

Catholicism does not teach or practice any form of control over God.

Thou art truly blessed

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed/euloghtoV <2128> the God and Father of the Lord of us, Jesus Christ, the One-blessing/euloghsaV <2127> (5660) us in every blessing/eulogia <2129> spiritual in the heavenlies [*in] Christ.

http://www.greeknewtestament.com/index.htm

Textus Rec.) Ephesians 1:3 euloghtoV o qeoV kai pathr tou kuriou hmwn ihsou cristou o euloghsaV hmaV en pash eulogia pneumatikh en toiV epouranioiV cristw

Reve 7:12 saying "amen, the blessing/eulogia <2129> and the glory and the wisdom and the thanking and the honor and the power and the strength to the God of us into the ages of the ages *amen".

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Jack, NOT control over God!!! control over the peoples reception of HIS will, to this you can NOT deny!

I do deny it. It is hardly your place to say what I can deny.

Catholicism is clear that Jesus is the Head of the Body and King of all. It is only by God's will that the Catholic Church teaches as it does and not man's will. That is the clear and obvious theology of Catholicism.

Do you care to address your view with the backing of known Catholic documents of our age?

 

[sunlover1]

Paul was addressing dissensions that were resulting in believers claiming to be following teachers instead of following Jesus. That is what we do when we claim our Christianity with an adjective in front of it.
That much becomes clear when you read the rest of the chapter:

10: Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11: For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12: Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13: Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14: I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15: Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16: And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17: For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18: For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19: For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20: Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21: For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22: For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24: But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25: Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26: For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28: And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29: That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30: But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Awesome truths.
Seems like there is this religious momentum that is "seemingly"
too out of control, for people to be able to stop and jump
off EVEN when they have read and understand what he was
speaking to here.
Churches named after men; in name, or even in spirit.
Boooo Hissssssss

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I do deny it. It is hardly your place to say what I can deny.

Catholicism is clear that Jesus is the Head of the Body and King of all. It is only by God's will that the Catholic Church teaches as it does and not man's will. That is the clear and obvious theology of Catholicism.

Do you care to address your view with the backing of known Catholic documents of our age?

I believe you JtC

 

[simonthezealot]

I do deny it. It is hardly your place to say what I can deny.

Catholicism is clear that Jesus is the Head of the Body and King of all. It is only by God's will that the Catholic Church teaches as it does and not man's will. That is the clear and obvious theology of Catholicism.

Do you care to address your view with the backing of known Catholic documents of our age?

Okay then deny it, in doing so you're denying the history of your church. Your church can call Jesus it's head but as soon as one realises that accepting all that the church teaches forces them to stand there recieving what is God's will only as the church desires to dispense it... Then you find yourself at odds with that denial.

 

[Rick Otto]

It is hardly your place to say what I can deny.

It is everyone's "place" to say whatever they want.

Catholicism is clear that Jesus is the Head of the Body and King of al

It is clear to me the say one thing & in practice mean something entirely different.

 

[Rick Otto]

1 Peter 3:8: "Finally, all of you, be of one mind ..."

This may be your most egregious example of context violation.

1: Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2: While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
3: Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4: But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5: For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
7: Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
8: Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
9: Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
10: For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
11: Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
12: For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
13: And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?

 

[Rick Otto]

Philippians 2:2: "...complete my joy by being of the same mind, with the same love, united in heart, thinking of one thing."

Philippians1:27: Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
28: And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
29: For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
30: Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me.
Phil2:1: If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2: Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3: Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4: Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5: Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7: But made himself of no reputation

[as "vicar" & other titles do],

and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9: Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11: And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12: Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13: For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14: Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Unified in the gospel message, not the ecclesiological power intrigues of title manufacturing pretenders.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Philippians 2:2: "...complete my joy by being of the same mind, with the same love, united in heart, thinking of one thing."

Unified in the gospel message, not the ecclesiological power intrigues of title manufacturing pretenders.

What is your view of those 10 kings in Revelation?

Young) 1 Corinthians 1:10 I am beseeching yet ye brethren! thru the name of the Lord of us Jesus Christ that the same ye may be saying all and no may be in ye schisms ye may be yet having been equipped in the same mind and in the same purpose/gnwmh <1106>.

Reve 17:12 And the ten horns which thou saw ten kings are, who-any a Kingdom not yet received, but authority as kings one hour they are receiving with the beast.
13 these one purpose/gnwmhn <1106> are having and the power and the authority of them to the beast they are giving.
17 For the God had given into the hearts of them to do the purpose/gnwmhn <1106> of Him and to do one purpose/gnwmhn <1106> and to give the kingdom of them to the beast until shall be being *finish* the words/*declarations of the God.

 

[Rick Otto]

What is your view of those 10 kings in Revelation?

They're not popes.

 

[simonthezealot]

I do deny it. It is hardly your place to say what I can deny.

Catholicism is clear that Jesus is the Head of the Body and King of all. It is only by God's will that the Catholic Church teaches as it does and not man's will. That is the clear and obvious theology of Catholicism.

Do you care to address your view with the backing of known Catholic documents of our age?

Okay then deny it, in doing so you're denying the history of your church. Your church can call Jesus it's head but as soon as one realises that accepting all that the church teaches forces them to stand there recieving what is God's will only as the church desires to dispense it... Then you find yourself at odds with that denial.

Jack waiting on your response on this...

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Okay then deny it, in doing so you're denying the history of your church. Your church can call Jesus it's head but as soon as one realises that accepting all that the church teaches forces them to stand there recieving what is God's will only as the church desires to dispense it... Then you find yourself at odds with that denial.

If we change "church" in your claim to mean "Jesus' Ministers" then do you see a problem? only as the church desires to dispense it

 

[JacktheCatholic]

It is clear to me the say one thing & in practice mean something entirely different.

That may be your personal experience but even so it weighs nothing when we are discussing theology of a church. Your experiences are based on relationships you have had and are not the whole not even by a smiggen.

This is things like the pedaphile cases cannot be used against church teaching. Otherwise Judas Iscariot would be used against Christianity.

So when we speak of the Catholic Church and it's theology then we can see where personal experiences should not weigh in with the facts as I assume you have done here.

The Catholic Church expects all of it's members to be in accord with the head of the body which is Jesus Christ. But becasue of concupisense and free will there will always be members of the body that do not act as the head directs. In no way does this discredit what the head has commanded.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That may be your personal experience but even so it weighs nothing when we are discussing theology of a church. Your experiences are based on relationships you have had and are not the whole not even by a smiggen.

This is things like the pedaphile cases cannot be used against church teaching. Otherwise Judas Iscariot would be used against Christianity.

So when we speak of the Catholic Church and it's theology then we can see where personal experiences should not weigh in with the facts as I assume you have done here.

The Catholic Church expects all of it's members to be in accord with the head of the body which is Jesus Christ. But becasue of concupisense and free will there will always be members of the body that do not act as the head directs. In no way does this discredit what the head has commanded.

Head......heads.......

Reve 5:6 And I saw and behold! in midst of the throne and of the four living-ones/zwwn <2226> and in midst of the elders a lambkin/N standing, as having been slaughtered/esfag-menon <4969> (5772) N,

Reve 13:3 And one/F out of the heads/F of it as having been slaughtered/esfag-menhn/<4969> (5772)F into death, and the blow/stripe of the death of it was healed.
And marvels whole the land behind of the beast.

 

[simonthezealot]

If we change "church" in your claim to mean "Jesus' Ministers" then do you see a problem? only as the church desires to dispense it

Depends on whether you're gonna attach
"required to believe under the threat of anethema"
or
"outside of which there is no salvation"
or something similar...

 

[JacktheCatholic]

LLoJ I am almost done with Revelation 13.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Depends on whether you're gonna attach
"required to believe under the threat of anethema"
or
"outside of which there is no salvation"
or something similar...

OK...

If we see the church as the body of Christ and a member of that body rejects the body then wouldn't that make that member detached from the body?

That is how I see Anathema, as a rejection of Jesus' body for other things/gods.

* I would also ask that if you pull up some old writings from 500 years ago that we consider the times and context.

 

[simonthezealot]

This is things like the pedaphile cases cannot be used against church teaching. Otherwise Judas Iscariot would be used against Christianity.

The way the church handled the pedophile case most certainly can be...Because they failed to follow discipline guides layed out throughout scripture.

 

[simonthezealot]

* I would also ask that if you pull up some old writings from 500 years ago that we consider the times and context.

JP quoted unam in the last decade and made no adjustment to what it said/meant.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LLoJ I am almost done with Revelation 13.

What translation are you using? I highly recommend this interlinear both for Reve and Daniel.....Best to download to use the more advanced search features. Wish they had one like this for the LXX OT......

http://www.scripture4all.org/