Pre-Trib Belief If Post Is Correct/Problems?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Big Mouth Nana Five years ago, there were only 2 people that I can recall in this forum that were post -trib, and there were more people here then. I am amazed at how many there are now in here. Looks to me like God is trying to squash the lie.

And a lot of those appear to be Preterists like me

 

[ezek33]

there seems to be a majority vote for post trib, me included, perhaps pre-trib is more of a minority group.. perhaps with people who shout louder and get that opinion into popular thinking. I dont think anyone can make a case for pre-trib, and it is certainly a 'theory of men'.

Five years ago, there were only 2 people that I can recall in this forum that were post -trib, and there were more people here then. I am amazed at how many there are now in here. Looks to me like God is trying to squash the lie.

I agree Nana, when I first realized that the rapture was post trib I often if I was the only one that saw it, but over the years many have come to this truth. I believe God is opening the eyes of His Church to the truth because the end is near.

Yes God is opening the eyes of His true servants to His truth.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Well, it appears that the majority of people who call themselves Christians will indeed be hanging around for the reign of the devil if you consider that only 1 1/2 of 7 "churches" are "worthy" in Rev 2 and 3. The others are called to repent.

Only those who are born of the Spirit will enter. The others have to be tested.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

And a lot of those appear to be Preterists like me

Yes, and God would like to squash that lie also There were a few Preterists in here back then that I dearly love and still do..you, Acts6:5, and Parousia70 ...haven't seen him in awhile. We could talk to each other without going for the throat lol. It was more joking around. Some on here now, I keep my hands in fists...hard to type that way

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Well, it appears that the majority of people who call themselves Christians will indeed be hanging around for the reign of the devil if you consider that only 1 1/2 of 7 "churches" are "worthy" in Rev 2 and 3. The others are called to repent.

Only those who are born of the Spirit will enter. The others have to be tested.

Hopefully not more than 10 days

Reve 2:10 No then be thou fearing! which-things thou are being about to be suffering.
Behold! is being about to be casting the Devil out ye into a prison that ye may be being tried/epeirasw <3985> (5668) and ye shall be having tribulation to-days, ten. Be thou becoming faithful! until death and I shall be giving to thee the crown of the life.

 

[get it right]

I agree Nana, when I first realized that the rapture was post trib I often if I was the only one that saw it, but over the years many have come to this truth. I believe God is opening the eyes of His Church to the truth because the end is near.

maybe many turning to post trib is part of the falling away from truth as some say happens before the a/c is revealed.



Originally Posted by hiscosmicgoldfish

there seems to be a majority vote for post trib, me included, perhaps pre-trib is more of a minority group.. perhaps with people who shout louder and get that opinion into popular thinking. I dont think anyone can make a case for pre-trib, and it is certainly a 'theory of men'.

Originally Posted by Big Mouth Nana

Five years ago, there were only 2 people that I can recall in this forum that were post -trib, and there were more people here then. I am amazed at how many there are now in here. Looks to me like God is trying to squash the lie.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

maybe many turning to post trib is part of the falling away from truth as some say happens before the a/c is revealed.

Huh?

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Hopefully not more than 10 days

Reve 2:10 No then be thou fearing! which-things thou are being about to be suffering.
Behold! is being about to be casting the Devil out ye into a prison that ye may be being tried/epeirasw <3985> (5668) and ye shall be having tribulation to-days, ten. Be thou becoming faithful! until death and I shall be giving to thee the crown of the life.

That 10 days is SYMBOLIC of the time of testing before the Day of Atonement!...when those who were patient and faithful will be resurrected. Apparently, the time of testing is about 1335 days long.

 

[ezek33]

That 10 days is SYMBOLIC of the time of testing before the Day of Atonement!...when those who were patient and faithful will be resurrected. Apparently, the time of testing is about 1335 days long.

I know you love to do mathmatical tricks with scripture but you have to fill me in, how did you come up with this one 10 days=1335 days that is. ROFL

 

[Kŗ§]

The pretrib view is not wrong because it is the popular view is it wrong because the Bible teachings oppose it.

I disagree. It supports it and you cannot point out anything that would even hint to anything else without completely removing the text from the context.

 

[ezek33]

I disagree. It supports it and you cannot point out anything that would even hint to anything else without completely removing the text from the context.

I will go first O.K. I will give you a verse that says the 2nd coming as well as the rapture is after the tribulation, then you give me one that says it is before cool?

I will start with the obvious.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I disagree. It supports it and you cannot point out anything that would even hint to anything else without completely removing the text from the context.

Can you give an example?

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I know you love to do mathmatical tricks with scripture but you have to fill me in, how did you come up with this one 10 days=1335 days that is. ROFL

The ten days of Rev 2....

Rev 2:10Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

....is referring to the 42 months that the devil is allowed to imprison and kill "the rest of her offspring", those "who follow the commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus", the "saints". There is a call for patient endurance during this time. These verses are mentioned in Rev 12, 13, 15, and resurrection/judgment of those people is in Rev 20.


The Day of Atonement is judgment after a 10 day period of testing (Days of awe/repentance)...every year. They have been practicing it for millennia.

If Jesus will fulfill the Fall feasts, then what is going to happen on the Day of Atonement?


I just happen to notice that Daniel 12 refers to a resurrection and judgment as well as says, "blessed are they that wait for and reach the end of the 1335 days". Why are they blessed? What happens at the end of the 1335 days? I don't know what the extra 75 days are for...yet.

I started a thread about it that has all the scriptures as well.

 

[ezek33]

The pretrib view is not wrong because it is the popular view is it wrong because the Bible teachings oppose it.

I disagree. It supports it and you cannot point out anything that would even hint to anything else without completely removing the text from the context.

I will go first O.K. I will give you a verse that says the 2nd coming as well as the rapture is after the tribulation, then you give me one that says it is before cool?

I will start with the obvious.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

No kriss, you have no response?

 

[HisdaughterJen]

No kriss, you have no response?

Ezek33 is correct. The rapture is after the tribulation. The tribulation starts with the abomination of desolation and ends with the sun/moon darkening.

The problem is that the reign of the beast is not during the tribulation, nor is the antichrist the abom of desolation. The reign of the beast is during the wrath that begins after the sun/moon darken.

Revelation proves it. The anti-christ cannot reign, according to Paul in 2 Thess 2 until the restrainer(the church who is gathered to Christ) departs.

Rev 6:

Seals 1-4 = tribulation that started with abom of desolation of the temple. city and the people and ends just as the sun/moon darken. It has been going on since Christ ascended and sent the riders "my four dreadful judgments" (ezek 14:21).

Seal #5 = the giving of white robes (bridal clothes, "fine linen clean and bright") to the Bride. AKA the rapture. We are the white-robed great multitude in Rev 7 having come out of great tribulation. The length is proven to be about 2000 years by Exodus 19:10-20. (they wash their robes for 2 days, since one day is as 1000 years)

Seal #6 = darkening of sun/moon, Day of Wrath begins.

Seal #7 = the outpouring of wrath including the trumpets (of which the beasts and the two witnesses are a part) and the bowls.

 

[get it right]

Ezek33 is correct. The rapture is after the tribulation. The tribulation starts with the abomination of desolation and ends with the sun/moon darkening.

The problem is that the reign of the beast is not during the tribulation, nor is the antichrist the abom of desolation. The reign of the beast is during the wrath that begins after the sun/moon darken.

Revelation proves it. The anti-christ cannot reign, according to Paul in 2 Thess 2 until the restrainer(the church who is gathered to Christ) departs.

Rev 6:

Seals 1-4 = tribulation that started with abom of desolation of the temple. city and the people and ends just as the sun/moon darken. It has been going on since Christ ascended and sent the riders "my four dreadful judgments" (ezek 14:21).

Seal #5 = the giving of white robes (bridal clothes, "fine linen clean and bright") to the Bride. AKA the rapture. We are the white-robed great multitude in Rev 7 having come out of great tribulation. The length is proven to be about 2000 years by Exodus 19:10-20. (they wash their robes for 2 days, since one day is as 1000 years)

Seal #6 = darkening of sun/moon, Day of Wrath begins.

Seal #7 = the outpouring of wrath including the trumpets (of which the beasts and the two witnesses are a part) and the bowls.

we know that christians have been enduring tribulation for 2000 years, but pre tribbers believe in a rapture before the end time tribulation-reign of the beast.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

we know that christians have been enduring tribulation for 2000 years, but pre tribbers believe in a rapture before the end time tribulation-reign of the beast.

YES! And that end-time reign of the beast is after the 2000 year tribulation (from the desolation of Jerusalem to the sun/moon darkening, aka "times of the gentiles") That reign of the beast is after the sun/moon darken and during the wrath of God.

Matt 24 doesn't mention the anti-christ, the two witnesses, the trumpets or the bowls because all of that is part of the wrath of God.

The church is caught up after the 2000 year tribulation and before the sun/moon darken which is followed by the trumpets and bowls (7th seal) when the beast reigns.


Tribulation (from abom of desolation of Jerusalem to sun/moon darken) = seals 1-4
Rapture (giving of white robes to the Bride) = seal #5
Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath at sun/moon darkening = seal #6
Trumpets (includes reign of the devil, specifically trumpets 5/6), bowls = Seal #7

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The church is caught up after the 2000 year tribulation and before the sun/moon darken which is followed by the trumpets and bowls (7th seal) when the beast reigns.

Why 2000yrs?

Revelation 22:10 And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this, that the Time NIGH/egguV <1451> is"

Luke 21:31 "Thus also ye whenever ye may be seeing these becoming, ye are knowing that NIGH/egguV <1451> is the Kingdom of the God."

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Why 2000yrs?

Revelation 22:10 And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this, that the Time NIGH/egguV <1451> is"

Luke 21:31 "Thus also ye whenever ye may be seeing these becoming, ye are knowing that NIGH/egguV <1451> is the Kingdom of the God."

Because Jesus reigns on the 7th Day from the Fall of mankind. It is God's plan.

The times of the gentiles are from the desolation of Jerusalem/Israel until the sun/moon darken. It is the tribulation. The devil reigns during the wrath, not the tribulation/times of the gentiles.

Israel was abandoned to allow the church to come in.

 

[Hockey_Fan]

So the next thing to happen is the sun and moon darken? Like an eclipse? Or something else?

And when that happens, a war in Israel starts and the anti-Christ comes to power?