Pope, King of the world?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Np.........

 

[simonthezealot]

I think Moses or Abraham are pretty good examples. Neither man was empecible. Moses actually disobeyed God with the rod and bringing forth water. Both men had original sin and other sins. They were sinful and yet they were the Authority with others subject to their decisions. This is but two men from scripture that show it is scriptural and so not blasphemous.

Jack here is a real question from one friend to another you can answer it here or in a PM, I am curious with things like unam sanctam how are you able to deny your conscience to promote a system like this?

 

[HisWordisTruth7]

When someone promotes Peter like this I think of this verse:

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Jack here is a real question from one friend to another you can answer it here or in a PM, I am curious with things like unam sanctam how are you able to deny your conscience to promote a system like this?

With Unam Sanctum I understand the theology and terminology in it as well as the context of the times it was written in.

I see a great design in the Catholic Church with God at it's pinnacle.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

When someone promotes Peter like this I think of this verse:

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

When I see posts where people do not understand the Petrine doctrines I think of this verse:

We see now through a glass in a dark manner

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Np.............

 

[HisWordisTruth7]

When I see posts where people do not understand the Petrine doctrines I think of this verse:

That's because only one group believes in Petrine doctrines....Did you even read and get the jist of what was said ?

 

[simonthezealot]

With Unam Sanctum I understand the theology and terminology in it as well as the context of the times it was written in.

I see a great design in the Catholic Church with God at it's pinnacle.

Still wondering if you can show any existence of any scriptural basis for subjection to a man being an absolute for salvation?

Surely you know this (Unam) is an infallible statement and you know that along with Unam...Boniface along with a handful of other popes have placed themselves so lofty... Are you familiar at all with Edgars variations on the papacy?

 

[namericanboy]

Bro. Jack I think if you just read the scriptures without Rome's lense you would see in the whole council of God The Holy Spirit working in all the apostles and not one calling the shots...Those verses just givien tell of who the foundation of the church rests on and those (plural) building on it..The idea of just one apostle getting special keys is preposterous...nab

 

[JacktheCatholic]

That's because only one group believes in Petrine doctrines....Did you even read and get the jist of what was said ?

Of course and that is why I posted about seeing darkly now to you.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Still wondering if you can show any existence of any scriptural basis for subjection to a man being an absolute for salvation?

Surely you know this (Unam) is an infallible statement and you know that along with Unam...Boniface along with a handful of other popes have placed themselves so lofty... Are you familiar at all with Edgars variations on the papacy?

It is not the subjection to the Pope that is important but rather the subjection to the body of Christ or Christ himself through the church which is his body and with the Pope who is His Steward. That is the part of the theology that you keep losing sight of, like not seeing the forest for all the trees.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Bro. Jack I think if you just read the scriptures without Rome's lense you would see in the whole council of God The Holy Spirit working in all the apostles and not one calling the shots...Those verses just givien tell of who the foundation of the church rests on and those (plural) building on it..The idea of just one apostle getting special keys is preposterous...nab

Preposterous? So YOU say.

But do not judge me so quickly as to think I was raised Catholic or have always thought of the Catholic Church to be as the Catholic Church says. To know me would be to know of a man in conflict with auhtority most of his life and you would also know a man who did not have knowledge of God until later in his manhood. No... I see clearly now like the blinders were removed.

But I appreciate your words because I know they are meant in a brotherly love way.

God bless you brother,

Jack

 

[simonthezealot]

It is not the subjection to the Pope that is important but rather the subjection to the body of Christ or Christ himself through the church which is his body and with the Pope who is His Steward. That is the part of the theology that you keep losing sight of, like not seeing the forest for all the trees.

There is NO theology in a doctrine that states this...They don't mince words Jack...And if you've studied this pope you'll see he meant this exactly the way it reads.

Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff

 

[Trento]

There is NO theology in a doctrine that states this...They don't mince words Jack...And if you've studied this pope you'll see he meant this exactly the way it reads.

Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff

At the end of 1301, Boniface commanded the French bishops to attend a council to be held November 1302 in Rome to consider the badly needed reform of the French Church. Philip forbade them to attend and in April 1302 organized an assembly of his own in Paris, of nobles, burgesses, and clergy to denounce the Pope and accuse him, based on a crude forgery of AF titled Deum Time (which means "Fear God"), of being "feudal overlord" of France. The French clergy, while addressing Boniface as Pope, protested against Boniface's "unheard of assertions." The Pope denied he ever claimed to be feudal overlord of France but was prepared to depose Philip if necessary, as he reminded them previous popes had done to three French kings.
Philip still refused to permit his bishops to attend the Pope's council in Rome. When the council did finally meet in November 1302, fewer than half of the French bishops attended and no measures for reform were agreed upon. Immediately after this abortive council, Pope Boniface VIII issued the famous Bull Unam Sanctam (Nov 18, 1302).
In light of the above history, we can see the dispute between Boniface and Philip had nothing to do with "Protestants" (they did not exist), it had nothing to do with pagans or any non-Catholic as such.
A non-Catholic CANNOT submit or be subject to the Pope, even if the person sincerely desired to obey the Pope in everything and believe all his teachings. Only CATHOLICS can submit to the Pope since one CANNOT submit to the Pope without being a member of the visible One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church founded by Christ of whom the Pope is the visible head. And that is precisely the point Pope Boniface VIII is making.

 

[namericanboy]

But I appreciate your words because I know they are meant in a brotherly love way.

God bless you brother,

Jack

Thank you for not taking it the wrong way and taking offense..To be honest, I have been reading/studint the scriptures for over 35 years and never saw the church being run with just one in charge but always conciliar...May the Lord Bless You always...nab

 

[Hentenza]

It is not the subjection to the Pope that is important but rather the subjection to the body of Christ or Christ himself through the church which is his body and with the Pope who is His Steward. That is the part of the theology that you keep losing sight of, like not seeing the forest for all the trees.

The forest is a collection of trees where not one tree is the forest.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Thank you for not taking it the wrong way and taking offense..To be honest, I have been reading/studint the scriptures for over 35 years and never saw the church being run with just one in charge but always conciliar...May the Lord Bless You always...nab

The Catholic Church has the Pope but also the Magisterium and in all things the Magisterium works in accord with the Pope so that in actuallity it is not like one man is running the church.

And you are welcome. I like it when we are civil to one another and can see Jesus in another even though we oppose each other at times in theological understandings.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

The forest is a collection of trees where not one tree is the forest.

You got me... when I was a kid it would be a "burn". LOL

 

[JacktheCatholic]

There is NO theology in a doctrine that states this...They don't mince words Jack...And if you've studied this pope you'll see he meant this exactly the way it reads.

Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff

I am aware fo this statement and with my understanding of Catholic theology it is simply reaffirming that the Pope is the Steward of this kingdom and should be followed as though it were Jesus giving direction. AGAIN, it derives from the understanding of Steward to a King and the that the Steward has the authority of the King while the King is away. And I should add that scripture states Jesus will not return until Judgment Day.

I truly appreciate the charity I am getting from you and others. I feel blessed.



God Bless you Simon.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff

Q: How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop?
A: THREE.

Q: How many times will one single sentence written by one pope centuries ago be quoted at CF?
A: THE WORLD MAY NEVER KNOW