• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Pope, King of the world?

Status
Not open for further replies.

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,549
28,532
75
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,330.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Bibically it has to do with MEN OF GOD and saints.
I always enjoy this story of the Man of God in 1 King :wave:

[Rotherham]1 King 13:21 and he cried out unto the man of God who had come in out of Judah, saying, Thus, saith Yahweh,--Forasmuch as thou hast rebelled against the bidding of Yahweh, and hast not kept the commandment which Yahweh thy God commanded thee; 22 but hast returned, and eaten bread and drunk water, in the place of which he said unto thee, Thou mayest neither eat bread nor drink water: thy dead body shall not enter the burying-place of thy fathers. 23 And it came to pass, after he had eaten bread, and after he had drunk, that he saddled for him the ass, for the prophet whom he had brought back. 24 And, when he had gone, there met him a lion by the way, and slew him,--and his dead body was cast out in the way, and, the ass, was standing near it, and, the lion, was standing near the dead body.
 
Upvote 0

JacktheCatholic

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.
Mar 9, 2007
24,545
2,797
58
Michigan, USA
Visit site
✟59,388.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Jackthecatholic:As I stated earlier I was looking for proof that any Pope ever claimed to be King of the earth and heaven and hell. Or that the Pope claimed to be God


Here you go guys...From the coronation of Leo xiii these words were said while placing the crown on his head...Don't say well he never said it!!!
Fact is because he accepts the Tiara ie. the crowning/coronation and in doing so he accepts all that comes with it...So here ya go!!!

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text...ameset;seq=286
From there...
Accipe thiaram tribus coronis ornatam, et scias te esse Patrem Principum et Regum, Rectorem Orbis, in terra Vicarium Salvatoris Nostri Jesu Christi, cui est honor et gloria in sacula saculorum
TRANSLATED>>>
(Receive the tiara adorned with three crowns and know that thou art father of princes and kings, ruler of the World, vicar on earth of Our Savior Jesus Christ, to whom is honor and glory forever and ever.)

ALSO:

From April of 1930 TIME magazine...
[URL="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...id=chix-sphere"]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...id=chix-sphere[/URL]


Soooo? :)

[QUOTE]"Receive the Tiara adorned with three crowns, and know that thou art Father of princes and kings, Ruler of the World, Vicar of our Savior Jesus Christ!" [/QUOTE]

Sounds like the person that is the Steward of God's kingdom. I see nothing wrong with that.
 
Upvote 0

simonthezealot

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?
Apr 17, 2006
16,461
1,919
Minnesota
✟35,153.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Soooo? :)

Sounds like the person that is the Steward of God's kingdom. I see nothing wrong with that.
Yet when coupled with the notion that the Church's power of the keys claims to allow him to decide how the merits of Christ and the saints are to be applied to the debt of temporal punishment such as in the doctrine of indulgences....You NOW have a crown wearing king of kings and ruler of the world whom controls the merits earned by Christ and the saints, whom in order for salvation all human creatures must be subject to...

EEEEGGGAAAADDDSSS! Get out of there, for real!
 
Upvote 0

spiritman

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2008
1,393
155
✟26,991.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Soooo? :)

[QUOTE]"Receive the Tiara adorned with three crowns, and know that thou art Father of princes and kings, Ruler of the World, Vicar of our Savior Jesus Christ!"

Sounds like the person that is the Steward of God's kingdom. I see nothing wrong with that.[/quote]

"Father of kings and ruler of the world" is not the same as saying "steward". And there is no scriptural evidence that God appointed any one man to be "the steward" of the whole world.

Your efforts to save face and not conceding to the evidence is obvious.
 
Upvote 0

Trento

Senior Veteran
Apr 12, 2002
4,387
575
AZ. Between the Holy Cross river and the Saint Rit
Visit site
✟30,034.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
We are to follow them as they follow Christ. To follow them and not to worship them, carry them around in a high chair, kiss their feet, etc.

.


Catechism of the Catholic Church signed off by the Pope

2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon." Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast" refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.


2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."




2096 Adoration is the first act of the virtue of religion. To adore God is to acknowledge him as God, as the Creator and Savior, the Lord and Master of everything that exists, as infinite and merciful Love. "You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve,"

Catholics agree completely with Acts 10:25-26, when rightly understood. No mere human being is to receive latria; not the pope, not the saints in heaven, . Our supreme worship belongs to the Blessed Trinity alone!

With that in mind let us now turn our attention to a disciple of the Apostle John, St. Ignatius of Antioch. St. Ignatius was in prison, on the road to martyrdom, when he wrote letters to seven different churches (98-118 AD). The importance of his writings cannot be overestimated, as he was a disciple of an Apostle as well as being around during the Church’s formative years appointed as the second bishop of Antioch around 69 AD.
It is interesting to note the teachings of St. Ignatius regarding the episcopate. He writes "all of you are to follow the bishop as Jesus Christ follows the Father, and the presbytery as the apostles. Respect the deacons as the command of God. Apart from the bishop no one is to do anything pertaining to the church. A valid Eucharist is to be defined as one celebrated by the bishop or by a representative of his... He who honors the bishop has been honored by God; he who does anything without the bishop’s knowledge worships the devil." (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 8,9 as quoted in The Apostolic Fathers edited by Jack N. Sparks pg. 112-113)

St. Paul gives much the same teaching in 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13 when he writes "We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you, and to show esteem for them with special love on account of their work. Be at peace among yourselves."

As to the western practice, ring kissing might look strange today but it grew out of ancient custom, you used to have to kiss the bishop’s foot! That used to be the way you showed respect to superior officers like emperors or kings, and, back in the fourth or fifth century the emperors themselves kissed the Pope’s foot as a sign of deference to spiritual authority. The church having out lived these cultures changed this practice about the year 1600, as it no longer had a parallel in civil ceremony. The ring came into the ceremony because it’s the symbol of an unchangeable state of life. That is why Roman citizens had the right to wear one, and why you’re supposed to wear one after you get married. Since at least the year 610, when Boniface IV made it definite, the ring has been the primary symbol of the bishop‘s office. Kissing the ring is a way of showing deference to the office, rather than to the man.
It is because of the great love the church has for her Lord that she respects and honors His ambassadors on earth (2 Cor 5:20, Eph 6:20). We honor them because they represent Christ in both the figurative and literal sense. Figuratively they represent him in their capacity of teachers and shepherds. Literally they represent Him when they offer the sacrifice of the Mass (or Liturgy) in the person of Christ, en persona Christi.
 
Upvote 0

simonthezealot

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?
Apr 17, 2006
16,461
1,919
Minnesota
✟35,153.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
ah. Signed off on by the Pope.

It MUST be true then. (sic)
Hilarious!
also have you ever seen their attempt at redefining divine law? by placing in the pope signed catechism a verson of the 10 commandments which ignores the scripture quoted?
 
Upvote 0

JacktheCatholic

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.
Mar 9, 2007
24,545
2,797
58
Michigan, USA
Visit site
✟59,388.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Sounds like the person that is the Steward of God's kingdom. I see nothing wrong with that.

"Father of kings and ruler of the world" is not the same as saying "steward". And there is no scriptural evidence that God appointed any one man to be "the steward" of the whole world.

Your efforts to save face and not conceding to the evidence is obvious. [/quote]


Only in your interpretation of scripture do you not find proof. As Chrisitans from the first chruch we ahve much proof in scripture.
 
Upvote 0

spiritman

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2008
1,393
155
✟26,991.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Catechism of the Catholic Church signed off by the Pope

2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon." Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast" refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.

Do as they say and not as they do?

Ac 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
26 But Peter took him up, saying,
Stand up; I myself also am a man.

I suppose Peter the "head of the church", didn't know the man bowing to him was just venerating.




 
Upvote 0

spiritman

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2008
1,393
155
✟26,991.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
"Father of kings and ruler of the world" is not the same as saying "steward". And there is no scriptural evidence that God appointed any one man to be "the steward" of the whole world.

Your efforts to save face and not conceding to the evidence is obvious.


Only in your interpretation of scripture do you not find proof. As Chrisitans from the first chruch we ahve much proof in scripture.[/quote]

Why are you afraid to use the same words your leaders use? They were not afraid to use them.
 
Upvote 0

Rdr Iakovos

Well-Known Member
Nov 4, 2004
5,081
691
63
Funkytown
✟8,010.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Republican
nah. I already have plenty of people in my life who tell me what to do, and think they have the right to do it, even when they don't.

no need for more.
LOL
Oppositional Defiant Disorder?
 
Upvote 0

Uphill Battle

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2005
18,279
1,221
48
✟23,416.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
LOL
Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

possibly. I AM by nature a defiant individual. Obedience and submission do not come easy to me.

However, obedience for the SAKE of obedience is also wrong. It must first be determined if the force engendered SHOULD be obeyed. There are many on the forums who sneer at those who do not submit... I would say that submission for submissions sake is wrongheaded and dangerous.

He that rebels against reason is a real rebel, but he that in defence of reason rebels against tyranny has a better title to “Defender of the Faith,” than George the Third. - Thomas Paine
 
Upvote 0

Tu Es Petrus

Well-Known Member
Dec 10, 2008
2,410
311
✟4,037.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
possibly. I AM by nature a defiant individual. Obedience and submission do not come easy to me.....

And that is why the average westerner cannot come to grips with the true nature of the Church, the idea that authority comes from the top down rather than from the people up.
 
Upvote 0

Trento

Senior Veteran
Apr 12, 2002
4,387
575
AZ. Between the Holy Cross river and the Saint Rit
Visit site
✟30,034.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Do as they say and not as they do?

Ac 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

I suppose Peter the "head of the church", didn't know the man bowing to him was just venerating.

In fact, it was even acceptable to venerate religious objects by bowing towards them:
Leviticus 19:30 You shall venerate my sanctuary: I am the LORD.
Psalm 138:2 I bow down toward thy holy temple...​
It was also acceptable to make self-expression with religious objects, such as the Jordan altar (Joshua 22:9-34), or a procession:
2Samuel 6:
11 And the ark of the LORD remained in the house of Obededom the Gittite three months; and the LORD blessed Obededom and all his household.
12 And it was told King David, "The LORD has blessed the household of Obededom and all that belongs to him, because of the ark of God." So David went and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obededom to the city of David with rejoicing;
13 and when those who bore the ark of the LORD had gone six paces, he sacrificed an ox and a fatling.
14 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod [religious garb].
15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the horn.​
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.