Pope, King of the world?

[Standing Up]

Just pointing out what i found in the NIV for a word search...

No doubt.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Just pointing out what i found in the NIV for a word search...

Here ya go. This ISA interlinear uses the same greek text the NIV uses. I like it!

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Luke 21:28 Beginning yet to-be-becoming/ginesqai <1096> (5738) these-things, up-bend! and lift up! the heads of ye, thru-that is nearing the redemption of ye [Daniel 12/Reve 16/21]

Reve 16:17 and the seventh messenger pours out the bowl of him into the air and came out Voice great from the sanctuary of-the heaven from the throne saying "it has become"/gegonen <1096> (5754). [Reve 21:6]

Reve 21:6 And He said to me: "it-has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754). [Reve 16:17]

 

[Caedmon]

ACCCKKKK! Not another Pope thread! Perhaps we need a board just on the Pope as there is for Mary and call it "Popeology".

Not to be confused with the study of Trouble, with the "pop-o-matic bubble."

 

[Caedmon]

I think He-Man is really Adam, Prince of Eternia, too, by the way.

 

[&Abel]

I prayed to god last night that if I had been hasty for my "attacks" on the catholic church to reveal that to me and to humble me...that I would rather accept being wrong then to wrongly attack a well established christian base

I also prayed that god would reveal this information to me(whatever it was)

so I woke up today and started doing some research and quickly stumbled upon this:

http://www.reformation.org/hitler_pope.html

"One evening several years ago when I was having dinner with a group of students, the topic of the papacy was broached, and the discussion quickly boiled over. A young woman asserted that Eugenio Pacelli, Pope Pius XII, the Pope during World War II, had brought lasting shame on thc Catholic Church by failing to denounce the Final Solution. A young man, a practicing Catholic, insisted that the case had never been proved.

Raised as a Catholic during the papacy of Pius Xll - his picture gazed down from the wall of every classroom during my childhood - I was only too familiar with the allegation. It started in 1963 with a play by a young German author named Rolf Hochhuth, Der Stellvertreter (Thc Deputy) which was staged on Broadway in 1964.

It depicted Pacelli as a ruthless cynic, interested more in the Vatican's stockholdings than in the fate of the Jews. Most Catholics dismissed Hochhuth's thesis as implausible, but the play sparked a controversy which has raged to this day.

Disturbed by the anger brought out in that dinner altercation, and convinced, as I had always been, of Pius XII's innocence, I decided to write a new defense of his reputation for a younger generation. I believed that Pacelli's evident holiness was proof of his good faith. How could such a saintly pope have betrayed the Jews? But was it possible to find a new and conclusive approach to the issue? The arguments had so far focused mainly on his wartime conduct; however, Pacelli's Vatican career had started 40 years earlier. It seemed to me that a proper investigation into Pacelli's record would require a more extensive chronicle than any attempted in the past. So I applied for access to archival material in the Vatican, reassuring those who had charge of crucial documents that I was on the side of my subject. Six years earlier, in a book entitled A Thief in the Night, I had defended the Vatican against charges that Pope John Paul I had been murdered by his own aides.

Two key officials granted me access to secret material: depositions under oath gathered 30 years ago to support the process for Pacelli's canonization, and the archive of the Vatican Secretariat of State, the foreign office of the Holy See. I also drew on German sources relating to Pacelli's activities in Germany during the 1920s and 1930s, including his dealings with AdoIf Hitler in 1933. For months on end I ransacked Pacelli's files, which dated back to 1912, in a windowless dungeon beneath the Borgia Tower in Vatican City. Later I sat for several weeks in a dusty office in the Jesuit headquarters, close to St. Peter's Square in Rome, mulling over a thousand pages of transcribed testimony given under oath by those who had known Pacelli well during his lifetime, including his critics.

By the middle of 1997, 1 was in a state of moral shock. The material I had gathered amounted not to an exoneration but to an indictment more scandalous than Hochhuth's. The evidence was explosive. It showed for the first time that PaceIli was patently, and by the proof of his own words, anti-Jewish. It revealed that he had helped Hitler to power and at the same time undermined potential Catholic resistance in Germany. It showed that he had implicitly denied and trivialized the Holocaust, despite having reliable knowledge of its true extent. And, worse, that he was a hypocrite, for after the war he had retrospectively taken undue credit for speaking out boldly against the Nazi persecution of the Jews."

if there is any untruth in this I suggest you speak up now...because unless I can find information that refutes this I will continue to repeat it until it becomes common knowledge

this is absolutely disgusting and I think its possible history is about to repeat itself

Pope Pacelli = 660
Adolf Hitler = 660
Osama bin laden = 660

not that thats a guarantee of anything but still interesting(and I believe it was a sign to me to go ahead with this posting this)

just to be clear I'm not against catholics...I know there are many genuine catholic christians here who I love(orthodox as well) but the truth is the truth and I plan to get as close to it as I can

 

[&Abel]

I found this in the Epistle of Inatius to the Ephesians:

"Do not err, my brethren. Those that corrupt families shall not inherit the kingdom of God. And if those that corrupt mere human families are condemned to death, how much more shall those suffer everlasting punishment who endeavour to corrupt the Church of Christ, for which the Lord Jesus, the only-begotten Son of God, endured the cross, and submitted to death! Whosoever, "being waxen fat," and "become gross," sets at nought His doctrine, shall go into hell. In like manner, every one that has received from God the power of distinguishing, and yet follows an unskilful shepherd, and receives a false opinion for the truth, shall be punished. "What communion hath light with darkness? or Christ with Belial? Or what portion hath he that believeth with an infidel? or the temple of God with idols?" And in like manner say I, what communion hath truth with falsehood? or righteousness with unrighteousness? or true doctrine with that which is false?"

now this Epistle does talk of being subject to bishops and I would imagine for the most part this is a good idea(provided they are humble and speak the truth)

but this Epistle also makes it clear that you are to judge for yourselves(if capable) whether someone is trustworthy or not and if you follow false doctrine without questioning it you will be held accountable

why don't we all work together to get to the absolute truth on everything?...ignore the faith icons and just be honest with ourselves?

I seriously invite anyone who can refute what I posted concerning Pope Pacelli to do so because I want the truth on the matter

because if its true its some pretty substantial evidence of corruption and dictatorship at the highest level of the catholic church

"For this end did the Lord suffer the ointment to be poured upon His head, that His Church might breathe forth immortality. For saith [the Scripture], "Thy name is as ointment poured forth; therefore have the virgins loved Thee; they have drawn Thee; at the odour of Thine ointments we will run after Thee." Let no one be anointed with the bad odour of the doctrine of [the prince of] this world; let not the holy Church of God be led captive by his subtlety, as was the first woman. Why do we not, as gifted with reason, act wisely? When we had received from Christ, and had grafted in us the faculty of judging concerning God, why do we fall headlong into ignorance? and why, through a careless neglect of acknowledging the gift which we have received, do we foolishly perish?"

 

[spiritman]

Originally Posted by JacktheCatholic

Answer me this: "how did the Judains priests understand the 'Chair of Moses'?"
​

Did they kneel before him and kiss his feet and ring? Did they also carry him around in a high chair?

The Israelites knew that worshiping anything other than God was forbidden so they wouldn't do it to any man or object. That was something only the ungodly did. Now keep in mind that the ungodly were very religious. But they didn't worship the only true God.

Moses had authority and he would have rebuked sharply anyone who tried to worship him or bow to him. Moses also feared God and had a very close relationship with Him.

Did you know that the scriptures clearly state that we are not to bow down to men or images of any kind?

Le 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Ac 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
Ac 10:26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

Peter wouldn't allow any man to bow to him or kneel before him. And yet your Pope not only allows it he requires it. What a contrast! And you say the Pope is a successor of Peter. If he was a successor of Peter he would at least do what Peter did. Peter did what Jesus and the scriptures taught. Why is the Pope not following Peter, Jesus, or the scriptures? I would not follow someone who blatantly disobeys the Word of God and exalts himself above all others.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I found this in the Epistle of Inatius to the Ephesians:

"Do not err, my brethren. Those that corrupt families shall not inherit the kingdom of God. And if those that corrupt mere human families are condemned to death, how much more shall those suffer everlasting punishment who endeavour to corrupt the Church of Christ, for which the Lord Jesus, the only-begotten Son of God, endured the cross, and submitted to death! Whosoever, "being waxen fat," and "become gross," sets at nought His doctrine, shall go into hell. In like manner, every one that has received from God the power of distinguishing, and yet follows an unskilful shepherd, and receives a false opinion for the truth, shall be punished. "What communion hath light with darkness? or Christ with Belial? Or what portion hath he that believeth with an infidel? or the temple of God with idols?" And in like manner say I, what communion hath truth with falsehood? or righteousness with unrighteousness? or true doctrine with that which is false?"

And boy, how they were punished back in the early centuries of Roman Catholicism!!!!

 

[BrightCandle]

The devil and Pontius did not bow to Jesus either but that does not mean Jesus is not King. Now does it?

Just as the Pope is the Prime Minister of Jesus' kingdom and whether people recognize this or not it no more changes it as fact as Jesus being King is fact.

And yes many Protestants for reasons of hatred or ignorance or whatever have created new theologies that try to say the RCC is the "Beast" or is "Lawless". But these are man made and have never been taught with seriousness or credibility until the Protestant Reformation. So why would I even consider one of these man made theologies that fail when compared to Christianity and all it's great history.

No, the Catholic Church has it's roots all the way back to Apostolic times and can show that ALL of it's teachings are rooted to Jesus and the Apsotles. So I have no need of these man made religions and traditions that have become different plants from the same mother, The Protestant Reformation.

The Devil and Pontius Pilate did not have a Christian character, so why would any of them bow to Jesus? The Pope trumps himself up with pomp and display that dazzle the senses, what Jesus called "outward show". Think about it, Pagan Rome did the same thing when the Caesar would appear before the people, it is very similar to what the Pope does in St. Peter's square.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Devil and Pontius Pilate did not have a Christian character, so why would any of them bow to Jesus? The Pope trumps himself up with pomp and display that dazzle the senses, what Jesus called "outward show". Think about it, Pagan did the same thing when the Caesar would appear before the people, it is very similar to what the Pope does in St. Peter's square.

Matthew 6:2 When-ever then thou mayest be doing alms, no thou should be Trumpeting/salpishV <4537> (5661) before of thee, even-as the hypocrites are doing in the synagogues and in the streets so that they may be being glorified by the men.
Amen I am saying to ye, they are collecting the wages of them.

Reve 14:11 And the Smoke of the Tormenting of them into Ages of Ages is ascending. And not they are having rest of Day and of Night

 

[BrightCandle]

That is why Jesus Christ the King of Heaven left us a Church so that we would be able to have the pillar and foundation of His Truth. The Catholic Church is The Church that has it's roots in Apostolic times and no other church can claim this so that is why I am glad to profess my membership in the Catholic Church.
The Catholic Church is where ever Jesus Christ is.

There were primitive first century churches throughout North Africa, the Middle East and southern Europe, that had their origins traced back to the Apostles, and yet were not governed by Rome. Rome ended up being the most dominant because it adopted the use of force and secular power to suppress all those who differed or would not join her. In other words, it not like all of the Christians of the ancient times gladly called themselves Roman Christians.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

There were primitive first century churches throughout North Africa, the Middle East and southern Europe, that had their origins traced back to the Apostles, and yet were not governed by Rome. Rome ended up being the most dominant because it adopted the use of force and secular power to suppress all those who differed or would not join her. In other words, it not like all of the Christians of the ancient times gladly called themselves Roman Christians.

The Romans weren't too pleased when they found out "saul/paul" was a Roman

[RNKJV] Acts 22:25 And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said unto the centurion that stood by, Is it lawful for you to scourge a man that is a Roman, and uncondemned?
26 When the centurion heard that, he went and told the chief captain, saying, Take heed what thou doest: for this man is a Roman.
27 Then the chief captain came, and said unto him, Tell me, art thou a Roman? He said, Yea.
29 Then straightway they departed from him which should have examined him: and the chief captain also was afraid, after he knew that he was a Roman, and because he had bound him.
Acts 23:27 This man was taken of the Jews, and should have been killed of them: then came I with an army, and rescued him, having understood that he was a Roman.

 

[Trento]

I prayed to god last night that if I had been hasty for my "attacks" on the catholic church to reveal that to me and to humble me...that I would rather accept being wrong then to wrongly attack a well established christian base

I also prayed that god would reveal this information to me(whatever it was)

so I woke up today and started doing some research and quickly stumbled upon this:

http://www.reformation.org/hitler_pope.html

"One evening several years ago when I was having dinner with a group of students, the topic of the papacy was broached, and the discussion quickly boiled over. A young woman asserted that Eugenio Pacelli, Pope Pius XII, the Pope during World War II, had brought lasting shame on thc Catholic Church by failing to denounce the Final Solution. A young man, a practicing Catholic, insisted that the case had never been proved.

Raised as a Catholic during the papacy of Pius Xll - his picture gazed down from the wall of every classroom during my childhood - I was only too familiar with the allegation. It started in 1963 with a play by a young German author named Rolf Hochhuth, Der Stellvertreter (Thc Deputy) which was staged on Broadway in 1964.

It depicted Pacelli as a ruthless cynic, interested more in the Vatican's stockholdings than in the fate of the Jews. Most Catholics dismissed Hochhuth's thesis as implausible, but the play sparked a controversy which has raged to this day.

Disturbed by the anger brought out in that dinner altercation, and convinced, as I had always been, of Pius XII's innocence, I decided to write a new defense of his reputation for a younger generation. I believed that Pacelli's evident holiness was proof of his good faith. How could such a saintly pope have betrayed the Jews? But was it possible to find a new and conclusive approach to the issue? The arguments had so far focused mainly on his wartime conduct; however, Pacelli's Vatican career had started 40 years earlier. It seemed to me that a proper investigation into Pacelli's record would require a more extensive chronicle than any attempted in the past. So I applied for access to archival material in the Vatican, reassuring those who had charge of crucial documents that I was on the side of my subject. Six years earlier, in a book entitled A Thief in the Night, I had defended the Vatican against charges that Pope John Paul I had been murdered by his own aides.

Two key officials granted me access to secret material: depositions under oath gathered 30 years ago to support the process for Pacelli's canonization, and the archive of the Vatican Secretariat of State, the foreign office of the Holy See. I also drew on German sources relating to Pacelli's activities in Germany during the 1920s and 1930s, including his dealings with AdoIf Hitler in 1933. For months on end I ransacked Pacelli's files, which dated back to 1912, in a windowless dungeon beneath the Borgia Tower in Vatican City. Later I sat for several weeks in a dusty office in the Jesuit headquarters, close to St. Peter's Square in Rome, mulling over a thousand pages of transcribed testimony given under oath by those who had known Pacelli well during his lifetime, including his critics.

By the middle of 1997, 1 was in a state of moral shock. The material I had gathered amounted not to an exoneration but to an indictment more scandalous than Hochhuth's. The evidence was explosive. It showed for the first time that PaceIli was patently, and by the proof of his own words, anti-Jewish. It revealed that he had helped Hitler to power and at the same time undermined potential Catholic resistance in Germany. It showed that he had implicitly denied and trivialized the Holocaust, despite having reliable knowledge of its true extent. And, worse, that he was a hypocrite, for after the war he had retrospectively taken undue credit for speaking out boldly against the Nazi persecution of the Jews."

if there is any untruth in this I suggest you speak up now...because unless I can find information that refutes this I will continue to repeat it until it becomes common knowledge

this is absolutely disgusting and I think its possible history is about to repeat itself

Pope Pacelli = 660
Adolf Hitler = 660
Osama bin laden = 660

not that thats a guarantee of anything but still interesting(and I believe it was a sign to me to go ahead with this posting this)

just to be clear I'm not against catholics...I know there are many genuine catholic christians here who I love(orthodox as well) but the truth is the truth and I plan to get as close to it as I can

Whats disgusting is that you don't make a thorough investagation of the subjuct but instead you listening to Anti Catholic propaganda. Read the Rabbi's letter And the New York Times article.

Catholic League: For Religious and Civil Rights


A Righteous Gentile

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Whats disgusting is that you don't make a thorough investagation of the subjuct but instead you listening to Anti Catholic propaganda. Read the Rabbi's letter And the New York Times article.

I myself am not anti-RC, I just disagree with a lot of their doctrines/dogmas just as I disagree with other denominations and some of their doctrine/dogmas and just as I disagree with the Jews and Muslims on their interpretations of the Bible [that doesn't mean I am anti-semetic]. Doesn't mean I hate them [as was brought up by another poster about me in another thread]. Why not discuss that on this thread..........

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7001922&page=20
Why are Protestants so Anti-Catholic? (2)

 

[Trento]

I myself am not anti-RC, I just disagree with a lot of their doctrines/dogmas just as I disagree with other denominations and some of their doctrine/dogmas and just as I disagree with the Jews and Muslims on their interpretations of the Bible [that doesn't mean I am anti-semetic]. Doesn't mean I hate them [as was brought up by another poster about me in another thread]. Why not discuss that on this thread..........

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7001922&page=20
Why are Protestants so Anti-Catholic? (2)

Take a look.


Creeds

 

[WarriorAngel]

Looking at the entire passage of Rev 3 - if that is about Christ - then it makes no sense.

Revelation 3:7-13
7 And to the angel of the church of Philadelphia, write: These things saith the Holy One and the true one, he that hath the key of David; he that openeth, and no man shutteth; shutteth, and no man openeth: 8 I know thy works. Behold, I have given before thee a door opened, which no man can shut: because thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9 Behold, I will bring of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie. Behold, I will make them to come and adore before thy feet. And they shall know that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of the temptation, which shall come upon the whole world to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12 He that shall overcome, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; and he shall go out no more; and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, [Church] which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and my new name. 13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.

Reading the red parts - this cannot be Jesus.
For Jesus didn't have little strength...and the Father didn't speak nor say 'Behold I come quickly..'

For the Person to say these things - it makes no sense Christ refers to Himself as the first and third person.

NOR can Jesus deny Himself - read Timothy.

2 Timothy 2
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us.
13 If we believe not, he continueth faithful, he can not deny himself.

For this to be Jesus speaking about Himself is just wrong.

How could Jesus deny Himself - His name...
But Revelation says 'You have not denied My name."

Its not Jesus...or Jesus has a split personality.

PLUS why would Jesus say He will be tried on earth....???

This is in reference to the key He handed to Peter - the Pope of His New Jerusalem aka the Church.

and THE TRIAL ON THE EARTH IS THE FUTURE TENSE...TO WHICH JESUS WILL NOT BE A PART OF....for He will be the one allowing the trial.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Looking at the entire passage of Rev 3 - if that is about Christ - then it makes no sense
Revelation 3:7-13
7 And to the angel of the church of Philadelphia write: These things saith the Holy One and the true one, he that hath the key of David; he that openeth, and no man shutteth; shutteth, and no man openeth:

Do you know that is taken from Psalm 22:22?

Reve 3:7 And to the Messenger of the in filadelfeia Outcalled write! now this is saying the Holy the True the One-having the Key of-the David, the one opening and no-one shall be locking and locking and no-one is opening.

Textus Rec.) Revelation 3:7 kai tw aggelw thV en filadelfeia ekklhsiaV grayon tade legei o agioV o alhqinoV o ecwn thn kleida tou dauid o anoigwn kai oudeiV kleiei kai kleiei kai oudeiV anoigei

Isaiah 22:22 And I give key of house of David on shoulder-blade of him and he opens and no one is locking and he locks and is no one opening.

http://christianforums.com/t7151096-7-churches-in-revelation-study.html
7-churches-in-revelation-study

 

[_visionary_]

The idea of Pope has never appealed to me. To my mind he's no different from any other man, with the exception of a lofty title.

 

[Rick Otto]

Whats disgusting is that you don't make a thorough investagation of the subjuct but instead you listening to Anti Catholic propaganda.

What's disgusting is playing the Anti-Catholic card every time any criticism is voiced and never, ever voicing any legitimate criticism except among other conspirators.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The idea of Pope has never appealed to me. To my mind he's no different from any other man, with the exception of a lofty title.

EHHH? And this coming from a RC no less!!!