Pope, King of the world?

[&Abel]

I've posted recently about unity within the church but how can we achieve that unity when part of the church is completely brainwashed with false doctrine?

 

[&Abel]

The Fourth Lateran Council (1215) suppressed some abuses connected with indulgences, spelling out, for example, that only a one-year indulgence would be granted for the consecration of churches and no more than a 40-days indulgence for other occasions. But very soon these limits were widely exceeded. In fact, false documents were circulated with indulgences surpassing all bounds: indulgences of hundreds or even thousands of years.[29] In 1392, more than a century before Martin Luther published the 95 Theses, Pope Boniface IX wrote to the Bishop of Ferrara condemning the practice of certain members of religious orders who falsely claimed that they were authorized by the pope to forgive all sorts of sins, and exacted money from the simple-minded among the faithful by promising them perpetual happiness in this world and eternal glory in the next.[31]

 

[&Abel]

The false doctrine and scandalous conduct of the "pardoners" were an immediate occasion of the Protestant Reformation.[3] In 1517, Pope Leo X offered indulgences for those who gave alms to rebuild St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. The aggressive marketing practices of Johann Tetzel in promoting this cause provoked Martin Luther to write his Ninety-Five Theses, protesting against what he saw as the purchase and sale of salvation. In Thesis 28 Luther objected to a saying attributed to Tetzel: "As soon as a coin in the coffer rings, a soul from purgatory springs".[33] The Ninety-Five Theses not only denounced such transactions as worldly but denied the Pope's right to grant pardons on God's behalf in the first place: the only thing indulgences guaranteed, Luther said, was an increase in profit and greed, because the pardon of the Church was in God's power alone.[34]

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=WarriorAngel; I did - I found it.
Are you telling me that i have it wrong because you disagree with the Church?

That is close to slander considering the detail he has gone into in substantiating his assertions. You do this man a great injustice & the rest of us a great disservice by asking such a question.

DO you think i didnt study the early Church in order to be certain it is the same?

Apparently not.

I have - and painstakingly so.

I beg to differ.

What you could do - if you choose - would be to read the ecf writings from the perspective of the Church and not someone seeking to find some way of discrediting her.

We get that plenty. You need to practice what you preach & study it from a Protestant perspective.

It will make more sense reading it from the perspective of the Church.

It never did for me.

You know i can and will find umpteen hundred or so quotes and writings of the ecf's to back me up.

You've tried that before & failed miserably, except in you & your Church's opinion.

Just waiting for your agreement.

Be realistic.

 

[&Abel]

Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem Dositheos Notaras (1641-1707) wrote: "It is an established custom and ancient tradition, known to all, that the Most Holy Patriarchs give the absolution certificate (συγχωροχάρτιον - synchorochartion) to the faithful people … they have granted them from the beginning and still do."[40]
A Russian Orthodox source says that these certificates were in use among Greek Orthodox until the middle of the twentieth century, and were "certificates which absolved from sins, which anyone could obtain, often for a specified sum of money. The absolution granted by these papers, according to Christos Yannaras, had no connection with any participation of the faithful in the Mystery of Penance, nor in the Mystery of the Eucharist". The same source interprets the Western indulgence also as absolution from sin, not as remission of temporal punishment.

 

[simonthezealot]

That depends on the context. What's his name displays all the symptoms.
Why did the angel tell John not to bow before him?
God says not to use the images. Best not to ask any of us why you have them & expect to like the answer.

Peter didn't allow cornelius to do it in Acts either, funny he was according to rome the 1st pope and for him it was unnacceptable...HMMM change in Rome? NOT possible...But wait scripture says this about ole pope peter
25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

 

[Rick Otto]

Yeah.
Kissin' his ring is either a whole different ballgame or just another inning.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

your display pic alone is proof of your idolatry of a man

Really? I thought my poster of the Beatles in my rec room was proof of my idolatry of a man

Do you want to kiss Ringo's ring?

 

[Brennin]

What you could do - if you choose - would be to read the ecf writings from the perspective of the Church and not someone seeking to find some way of discrediting her.
It will make more sense reading it from the perspective of the Church.

If only you would read the ecfs like my church tells you to read them, then you'd see things my way!

Please. Your church distorts the ecfs like no other.

You know i can and will find umpteen hundred or so quotes and writings of the ecf's to back me up.
Right? You know i can...

Anyone can cut-and-paste RC quotemines. Not everyone can actually read the ecfs in their proper context, though.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Anyone can cut-and-paste RC quotemines. Not everyone can actually read the ecfs in their proper context, though.

I bought some of them from Penguin Classics

 

[Standing Up]

-snip-

Matthew 16:19 was spoken by our Lord to St. Peter alone, and is the primary foundation for the concept of the papacy (along with the preceding verse). -snip-


Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
-snip-

Mt. 16:19 is future tense.

Revelation still shows Christ Jesus with the keys.

Some foundation for the concept of the papacy.

 

[Brennin]

..and then around the time of Luther Bibles were transplanted from Christ's Church into the hands of raving Sola Scriptura lunatics.

Yeah, it's too bad your church doesn't control access to Scripture anymore. It makes it much more difficult to pass off false doctrines as truth.

 

[Brennin]

I bought some of them from Penguin Classics

Good for you. Now you'll be able to see that the papacy is built on a foundation of sand.

 

[Standing Up]

-snip-



DO you think i didnt study the early Church in order to be certain it is the same?

I have - and painstakingly so.

And so i can say without an inkling of doubt - that the Church is who she has always been and that is the Church to whom Jesus established the keys upon Peter.

No other church has that.

None.

What you could do - if you choose - would be to read the ecf writings from the perspective of the Church and not someone seeking to find some way of discrediting her.
It will make more sense reading it from the perspective of the Church.

-snip-

What did you find regarding the quartodeciman controversy?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Mt. 16:19 is future tense.

Revelation still shows Christ Jesus with the keys.

Some foundation for the concept of the papacy.

That form of the word is also used in each of the 7 Assemblies of Revelation concerning what the Saints receive is they have been "good"....

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Matthew 16:19 "I shall be giving/dwsw <1325> (5692) to thee the Keys of the kingdom of the heavens. And which if-ever thou should be binding upon the land, shall be having been bound in the heavens, and which if-ever thou should be loosing upon the land, shall be having been loosed in the heavens.​

dwsw <1325> (5692) Used 23 times including 10 times in Revelation​

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Good for you. Now you'll be able to see that the papacy is built on a foundation of sand.

Err, I'm thinkin'.. uh... NO

Besides, I have the best signature in the forum. Wouldnt want to give that up.

 

[Rick Otto]

High on supremacist superlatives

 

[Brennin]

Err, I'm thinkin'.. uh... NO

Besides, I have the best signature in the forum. Wouldnt want to give that up.

LOL. Touche.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

The Pope, King of the world?

The answer is NO.

There has never been an official teaching of the Catholic Church that the Pope has ever been the "King of the World".

 

[JacktheCatholic]

High on supremacist superlatives

I like your siganture...

In SE Michigan they did a data gathering from 2005 to 2007 and we have over a 21% unemployment rate. LOL