Pope: Saving world from homosexuality like saving rainforests

[bsd13]

mtDNA is traced back tens of thousands of years. Eve/creationism is 6,000 yrs old, no?

Depends on what model of either you want to look at.

Nobody in this thread has advocated church sanctioned marriage for homosexuals. The argument is about state sanctioned marriage.

The topic is about what the pope said regarding marriage of gays. I'm against gay marriage. Furthermore, as I've said I'm against the government being involved in marriage at all. It is a sacred institute between one man, one woman, and the one true God. Government has no place in it.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

If that's your belief, so be it. It's not my concern. You've done nothing to convince me of anything you've said relating to creation, or more importantly that someone who makes the choice to be gay should be allowed to claim marriage from the church.

But yet science proves that creation cold not have possible happened, I guess that means you are anti science.

And again marriage is not a religious institution it is a secular one.

But we have also shown that being gay is not a choice you are the one who chooses to wear blinders when presented with the evidence.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Depends on what model of either you want to look at.

There is only one model that of science, there is no science or any evidence whatsoever of creationism. Creationism is not even a theory and will never be anything more than a Hypothesis.

The topic is about what the pope said regarding marriage of gays. I'm against gay marriage. Furthermore, as I've said I'm against the government being involved in marriage at all. It is a sacred institute between one man, one woman, and the one true God. Government has no place in it.

Marriage has existed before Christianity you do not have a monopoly on it just as when I get married to another atheist there is most certainly no god involved.

 

[bsd13]

But yet science proves that creation cold not have possible happened, I guess that means you are anti science.

Science "proves" creation could not have happened?! Proves? Nonsense. It has proven nothing of the sort. It's proven a lot of things, but it hasn't proven creation impossible. If it had done that every church in the world would have been shut down and we'd all be atheists.

As a scientists, you know there's no need to make a foolish remark like that. You know perfectly well it hasn't proven anything of the sort.

And again marriage is not a religious institution it is a secular one.

Without God in it then it certainly is.

But we have also shown that being gay is not a choice you are the one who chooses to wear blinders when presented with the evidence.

What "evidence" have "we" been shown that being gay isn't a choice? Is it not a choice to act out your desires? I don't doubt an attraction, but the choice to deny your flesh or not is always yours.

 

[Braunwyn]

Depends on what model of either you want to look at.

What are you talking about?

The topic is about what the pope said regarding marriage of gays. I'm against gay marriage. Furthermore, as I've said I'm against the government being involved in marriage at all. It is a sacred institute between one man, one woman, and the one true God. Government has no place in it.

If the pope wants to advocate that gays cannot marry in the catholic church, I certainly don't care. I care about religious doctrine polluting secular law and civil rights. Second, if you don't want to support state sanctioned marriage, that's your business. But, your opinion has no bearing on my godless state-sanctioned marriage nor should it.

 

[MaxP]

But yet science proves that creation cold not have possible happened, I guess that means you are anti science.

Interesting statement considering it hasn't.

 

[bsd13]

There is only one model that of science, there is no science or any evidence whatsoever of creationism. Creationism is not even a theory and will never be anything more than a Hypothesis.

If you say so...

http://www.creationism.org/
http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/bios/
http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers
http://www.icr.org/Evidence/

Seems not all scientists agree with you

Marriage has existed before Christianity you do not have a monopoly on it just as when I get married to another atheist there is most certainly no god involved.

Like I said before it certainly has. God instituted marriage with Adam and Eve and they far, far, far predate Christianity. As to God being involved or not with a marriage between atheists; he brings the rains to both the saint and the sinner

 

[Braunwyn]

Science "proves" creation could not have happened?! Proves? Nonsense. It has proven nothing of the sort. It's proven a lot of things, but it hasn't proven creation impossible. If it had done that every church in the world would have been shut down and we'd all be atheists.

There is no argument for a 6,000 year old planet. Eve being made from Adam's rib? C'mon.

 

[MaxP]

There is no argument for a 6,000 year old planet.

I used to think the same thing, but the argument for a planet billions of years old isn't exactly airtight.

 

[bsd13]

There is no argument for a 6,000 year old planet. Eve being made from Adam's rib? C'mon.

1) Not all creationist believe in a literal 24 hour six day creation period.

2) The word was "side" not rib. And it meant God took material from man to make woman. Genetic material for instance.

 

[Braunwyn]

I used to think the same thing, but the argument for a planet billions of years old isn't exactly airtight.

I'm not arguing an exact age but 6,000 years? c'mon.

This is from a scientist who is also a christian.

http://www.indiana.edu/~ensiweb/evid.anc.earth.pdf

 

[Braunwyn]

1) Not all creationist believe in a literal 24 hour six day creation period.

2) The word was "side" not rib. And it meant God took material from man to make woman. Genetic material for instance.

Woman was not made from man. That is patently ridiculous and obviously wrought in patriarchal crap. Only an individual that is grossly uneducated is capable of being spoon fed such garbage. Again, it makes no difference to me if you are that person providing you don't demand that I have to dumb myself down to your level.

 

[bsd13]

What are you talking about?

There's no real agreement on the age of the earth. There's not even an agreement concerning the methods used to measure it.

If the pope wants to advocate that gays cannot marry in the catholic church, I certainly don't care. I care about religious doctrine polluting secular law and civil rights. Second, if you don't want to support state sanctioned marriage, that's your business. But, your opinion has no bearing on my godless state-sanctioned marriage nor should it.

Then why do so many want to mandate that churches have to perform marriages? I don't expect a non-Christian to act like a Christian but I do expect them not to insist that churches do something contrary to their faith. That is to marry homosexuals.

 

[bsd13]

Woman was not made from man. That is patently ridiculous and obviously wrought in patriarchal crap. Only an individual that is grossly uneducated is capable of being spoon fed such garbage. Again, it makes no difference to me if you are that person providing you don't demand that I have to dumb myself down to your level.

Are you certain woman was not made from man? Can you, with full authority and knowledge of EXACTLY what happened make that statement? You were there when it happened? When a woman first came into existence you know what occurred?

I'll remind you that you said "Woman was not made from man." Did nothing to qualify the statement just threw it out there as factual. So then since woman was not made from man I'll ask you again how did woman come to be, exactly. I eagerly await your firsthand account.

 

[Aianna]

There's no real agreement on the age of the earth.
Then why do so many want to mandate that churches have to perform marriages? I don't expect a non-Christian to act like a Christian but I do expect them not to insist that churches do something contrary to their faith. That is to marry homosexuals.

The vast majority of gay marriage proponents are not arguing about what churches recognize at all. There may very well be some who do argue that, but the vast majority are arguing for legal (government) recognition of the marriages.

 

[Braunwyn]

There's no real agreement on the age of the earth. There's not even an agreement concerning the methods used to measure it.

The exact age of the earth is unknown. There is no doubt that the earth is much older than 6-10,000 years. And there are several methods used that are accepted and considered reliable within the scientific community. <<< take note of that word.

Then why do so many want to mandate that churches have to perform marriages? I don't expect a non-Christian to act like a Christian but I do expect them not to insist that churches do something contrary to their faith. That is to marry homosexuals.

So many? Show me these many. I will argue right along side you if anyone demands a church to marry people it does not want to marry. That is not the issue. That was not the issue for the uproar over prop 8. Sure, there many be a loony fringe that would argue for it but they will never be supported by a majority. If you review EM you will see 99.9999% of members that advocate same-sex marriage do so for civil rights, not for enforcement of a church.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

If you say so...

http://www.creationism.org/
http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/bios/
http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers
http://www.icr.org/Evidence/

Seems not all scientists agree with you

You obviously have no idea what the difference is between a theory and a hypothesis, since they are not accepted by peer reviewed journals and there is no evidence that supports creationism it will never be a theory, therefore it is not valid and cannot be taught as science.

Like I said before it certainly has. God instituted marriage with Adam and Eve and they far, far, far predate Christianity. As to God being involved or not with a marriage between atheists; he brings the rains to both the saint and the sinner

You god means less than nothing to me or my GF. And since there is not one iota of evidence that Adam and Eve ever existed that is pure conjecture.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Don't know how he thinks it should be dealt with, but here's my thought.

"Gays" (to include all those who practice "alternative" sexuality) and their advocates stop trying to claim the institute of marriage. It is sacred and not theirs to participate in. Let them have their civil unions, but have the respect to recognize that marriage is an institute of God. If you don't believe in God respect that there are those of us who do.

We all deal with immoral things. I guarantee if you have kids and one of them lies to you you will deal with it.

MAJOR disconnect.

Jesus Christ called my partner and me into faithful relationship 24 years ago, and it is blessed by him, and precious in his sight.

All your belly-aching won't ever change the truth of that.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

There's no real agreement on the age of the earth. There's not even an agreement concerning the methods used to measure it.

There may not be an exact agreement but we know it is at least a few billion years old.

Then why do so many want to mandate that churches have to perform marriages? I don't expect a non-Christian to act like a Christian but I do expect them not to insist that churches do something contrary to their faith. That is to marry homosexuals.

Not one singel person is advocating for churches to perform wedding what they do want is a wedding at all.

 

[bsd13]

The exact age of the earth is unknown. There is no doubt that the earth is much older than 6-10,000 years. And there are several methods used that are accepted and considered reliable within the scientific community. <<< take note of that word.

And what about the scientists who disagree with the scientific "community"? Are they not scientists?

So many? Show me these many. I will argue right along side you if anyone demands a church to marry people it does not want to marry. That is not the issue. That was not the issue for the uproar over prop 8. Sure, there many be a loony fringe that would argue for it but they will never be supported by a majority. If you review EM you will see 99.9999% of members that advocate same-sex marriage do so for civil rights, not for enforcement of a church.

I have no idea what EM is.