Help with some thoughts...

[ModestKittee]

Merry Christmas everyone. With the Lord on my mind this morning more so than ever, I've found myself questioning my path for the last 15 years of my life.

I had tried posting this very post on another Christian forum but they banned my account without even given me a response. I'm hoping that I'm not turned away here so coldly.


I was baptized back in 1991 and said the acceptance prayer back during that time with the pastor of the church I was attending (Baptist.) My father was also a Baptist preacher way back before I was even born.

I have to say that I have some fundamental problems with the "Born again" philosophy. Please bear with me while I explain.


The way it was explained to me in my church back in the 1990's, (I haven't attended a Baptist church since 1997ish.) was that once you accept Jesus in your heart you are forgiven for everything you've ever done or ever will do. This is a tough pill for me to swallow because I see mass murderers, child rapists, truly evil people "get religion" and suddenly assume everything is on the level with God. Now I'm not saying that God isn't all forgiving, but surely this cannot be all one has to do to be forgiven.

I believe that you must also "do" good works and be generally "good" to be blessed by God. Not that you can "buy" your way into heaven with these good works either, but you can't just say "I accept Jesus" and then suddenly everything is OK. I think you have to put action behind your words. Too many times in the church did I see the ugly "double faced" nature of many of it's congregate. Folks would be one way on Sunday and Weds nights but the other 5 days of the week they were "worldly" and someone else.


Another issue I have is with the overwhelming majority of hate that comes from Baptist churches. (Sorry I keep mentioning Baptist because that is really all I know.) Too many sermons were about how babies in Africa were doomed to hell fire just because they didn't know Jesus Christ. How Buddhists and Jews, Islamic and Pagans, were all doomed to hell no matter how "good" their moral character and behaviors were.

I like to take Jesus for his word and his message alone. I don't understand how so much hate can be preached with Jesus Christs message was about love.

It is my belief that as so long as you believe in God, or a higher power, that you moral character and actions are "good" that you are already on the path to being saved. I do not believe God cares what name you call upon him by as so long as you call his name.


That is why my heart is conflicted. I've felt this way for 15 years now and I'm just not sure how to sort this out.


Can anyone help me? I really want to get out in my community and get to know like minded others to worship and celebrate with. I just don't know WHERE I belong.

Thank you in advance.

 

[drich0150]

This is a tough pill for me to swallow because I see mass murderers, child rapists, truly evil people "get religion" and suddenly assume everything is on the level with God. Now I'm not saying that God isn't all forgiving, but surely this cannot be all one has to do to be forgiven.

Let hope that "forgiveness" is so available to all of us, because we are told that in order for us to be "righteous" in God's eyes, we have to obey the Law right down to our motives and thoughts. (Not only don't commit Adultery, but not even look at another lustfully, because to God these actions are the same.) Once we even break the smallest portion of the Law we are told we are guilty of breaking all of it. Which would put us in the same category as the murders and child molesters, deserving of the same punishment.

We are the one's who put severity of evil on sin, often times, but not all of the time, with our own measure of self righteousness. Meaning because we look at ourselves and say: I am a good person and I could never commit such acts. Because of this all others are Unworthy of what I aspire to. This sin of "self righteousness" is a sin God considers greater than most of the ones we do. What we aspire to, and what God's standards of truly evil sin maybe, are not always the same thing.

I believe that you must also "do" good works and be generally "good" to be blessed by God. Not that you can "buy" your way into heaven with these good works either, but you can't just say "I accept Jesus" and then suddenly everything is OK. I think you have to put action behind your words. Too many times in the church did I see the ugly "double faced" nature of many of it's congregate. Folks would be one way on Sunday and Weds nights but the other 5 days of the week they were "worldly" and someone else.

This statement is true to a degree. We are told a faith without works is dead. But at the same time the adherence to the law or works as a measure of worthiness or righteousness is legalism.. It's not what you do that's important. It's why you do it, and that whatever your doing matches your ability, and your current level of faith and love that is most important to God.
We are in a relationship with God. Kinda like a marriage. Doing things for your spouse, like all of the mechanical aspects of typical womanly role in a marriage can be accomplished by a person who as little or no love for her husband. Or these same exact things can be done by someone who absolutely loves her husband.. Which of the two examples do you thing means more? Why?
The same is true for God. Marriage is an institution that mirrors in allot of ways the relationship or the process of a relationship that we are to have with God.

Will be back to address the rest.

 

[ModestKittee]

Thank you Drich, I will be checking back on this thread with great interest.

 

[chosenpath]

I believe that you must also "do" good works and be generally "good" to be blessed by God. Not that you can "buy" your way into heaven with these good works either, but you can't just say "I accept Jesus" and then suddenly everything is OK. I think you have to put action behind your words. Too many times in the church did I see the ugly "double faced" nature of many of it's congregate. Folks would be one way on Sunday and Weds nights but the other 5 days of the week they were "worldly" and someone else.

You are absolutely correct. First, just accepting Jesus Christ as your savior doesn't make everything OK. Remeber we still have to live in this world. Jesus said himself it would become more difficult John 15:20 and used the illustration in Mark 4:14 -23. You see for a time the weeds will grow along with the wheat Matthew 13:26-30. This reminds me when Abraham prayed to God about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 18:20-33. That is why Jesus said we should forgive others Matthew 6:14 and leave the wrath to him Romans 12:19. Does this mean that we should not preach the Gospel accurately. Teaching the word accurately is good works.


Another issue I have is with the overwhelming majority of hate that comes from Baptist churches. (Sorry I keep mentioning Baptist because that is really all I know.) Too many sermons were about how babies in Africa were doomed to hell fire just because they didn't know Jesus Christ. How Buddhists and Jews, Islamic and Pagans, were all doomed to hell no matter how "good" their moral character and behaviors were.

Read Matthew 24:14-51, Revelation 14:6, and Revelation 18:4.

The Buddhists, Jews, Islamic, Pagans and others will have the opportunity to make that choice before the end comes.


I like to take Jesus for his word and his message alone. I don't understand how so much hate can be preached with Jesus Christs message was about love.

Too many times Jesus Christs message of love is lost. Did Jesus come and say one word, "your sins are forgiven" and die on a cross. No he made sure those he preached to understood the implications. Luke 11:28-32. The Apostles carried on the message that was taught to them by Jesus Hebrews 10:26.

It is my belief that as so long as you believe in God, or a higher power, that you moral character and actions are "good" that you are already on the path to being saved. I do not believe God cares what name you call upon him by as so long as you call his name.
Please read these scriptures

Exodus 20:3-6

Psalm 83:18

John 6:44-45

John 14:26

Acts 18:26

 

[ModestKittee]

Thank you Chosen.

In reference to God and his name- the last part you quoted me on and asked me to read some passages, what about this?

"In revealing his mysterious name, YHWH ("I AM HE WHO IS", "I AM WHO AM" or "I AM WHAT I AM"), God says who he is and by what name he is to be called. This divine name is mysterious just as God is mystery. It is at once a name revealed and something like the refusal of a name, and hence it better expresses God as what he is - infinitely above everything that we can understand or say: he is the "hidden God", his name is ineffable, and he is the God who makes himself close to men."
Source

Wasn't God trying to say at that time that his name is irrelevant?

 

[chosenpath]

No actually YHWH wasn't because when Moses brought the Israelites out of Eygpt they had already been subjected to other gods so YHWH gave a name to be distinguish above all other gods. If you notice Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob didn't have the threat of influence by other gods so God Almighty was all they knew.
Exodus 6:2-3
And God spoke to Moses and said to him: "I [am] the LORD.
I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but [by] My name LORD I was not known to them.

 

[ModestKittee]

I think I understand and yet I don't. I think I need Christianity for dummies edition. LOL

 

[drich0150]

Too many sermons were about how babies in Africa were doomed to hell fire just because they didn't know Jesus Christ.

I have heard similar sermons in this regard as well, and the preacher wasn't a baptist. I believe this talking point started out as a plea to help support mission work, and has evolved into a self righteous fuel to help push popular christianity. The fact is that there is a kernel of truth in this message, but the same scriptures also tell us that God has mercy on whom he chooses to have mercy. We are ultimately Judged on our level of exposure, and our ability to process what we heard in relation to our own efforts.
There isn't a set standard for all of us, or so say Jesus through his teachings in the parables about the talents. There also isn't a provision that obligates God into behaving a certain way or that condemns all who Don't know him as we do. Meaning in a western style church, and what we know as "worship."

That said, there is a common thread that we all need to share and that is to have the teaching of Jesus at our core belief system. People of a non Christ centered faiths are still in sin, and unforgiving sin will exclude you from salvation.

This isn't a matter of good and bad. This is a matter of sin and righteousness.
Don't confuse sin with evil.
Sin is anything outside of the will of God.. Anything.
Evil in a malicious intent to commit sin.
Righteousness is to be in the will of God.

So in order to inherit salvation we must be in the will of God. Or righteous before God. All those not in the will of God will not inherit salvation.. And again Good deeds have nothing to do with it. Just like an unloving wife could do all the things a loving wife could do for her husband, but all of her actions not have anything to do with Love. If all the husband wants is to be loved by his wife, then all of her efforts are meaningless. even if her actions could be seen by others as good works.

Love in your relationship with God, like in your marriage, is the binding agent that make all of the "works" you do meaningful. The works performed by an unloving person in any relationship only support or fuel one's personal brand of righteousness.. and like the wife who does all of the deeds a loving wife would, but without the love, Her works only credit her commitment to her Job. If loving God was a Job instead of a relationship, then works or good deeds alone would be enough.

That's why acknowledgment of God is not enough. It maybe considered a start, but acknowledgment is not Love.

Can anyone help me? I really want to get out in my community and get to know like minded others to worship and celebrate with. I just don't know WHERE I belong.

If you can't currently find a home of a fellowship of believers locally, then start here. There are many who feel as you do and are looking for like minded people to spend time with.. Also seek out people in your existing church, I would say there are many who are dissatisfied with the way God's many churches are being run... Start out simply by inviting some like minded brothers or sisters out for coffee and go from there.

 

[heymikey80]

Merry Christmas everyone. With the Lord on my mind this morning more so than ever, I've found myself questioning my path for the last 15 years of my life.

I had tried posting this very post on another Christian forum but they banned my account without even given me a response. I'm hoping that I'm not turned away here so coldly.

No, you won't.

I was baptized back in 1991 and said the acceptance prayer back during that time with the pastor of the church I was attending (Baptist.) My father was also a Baptist preacher way back before I was even born.

I have to say that I have some fundamental problems with the "Born again" philosophy. Please bear with me while I explain.

The way it was explained to me in my church back in the 1990's, (I haven't attended a Baptist church since 1997ish.) was that once you accept Jesus in your heart you are forgiven for everything you've ever done or ever will do. This is a tough pill for me to swallow because I see mass murderers, child rapists, truly evil people "get religion" and suddenly assume everything is on the level with God. Now I'm not saying that God isn't all forgiving, but surely this cannot be all one has to do to be forgiven.

I'm going to split the differences at this point. Rather than agree with either, can I agree with both? It sounds like a cop-out, I know. But my theological study doesn't let any group "out" of this conundrum. I don't have all the answers either. But maybe it'll help.

I was baptized a Baptist, too. In my experience Baptists often talked about really "out-there" eventualities, and didn't talk enough about "normal" situations. Baptists in church often talk as if everything's about how you're saved. Is it this way with your church? If it is, they're saying no sin will destroy God's forgiveness of sin. God will save those who actually rely in Him. Not those who "get religion" or "say a prayer" or "contact a church".

Some Baptists don't quite go far enough. Essentially Scripture says to rely in Christ Jesus people must undergo a heart transplant.

But I expect your opinion comes from thinking about all the consequences of sin and evil. In that sense you're right. People who commit sins are responsible for the consequences of those sins. Those who have heart-changes are adamant about fixing that sin as much as possible. Reconciling. Paying the debt. Taking the consequences. Undergoing the punishment. "if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor." Gal 2:17-18

I believe that you must also "do" good works and be generally "good" to be blessed by God. Not that you can "buy" your way into heaven with these good works either, but you can't just say "I accept Jesus" and then suddenly everything is OK. I think you have to put action behind your words. Too many times in the church did I see the ugly "double faced" nature of many of it's congregate. Folks would be one way on Sunday and Weds nights but the other 5 days of the week they were "worldly" and someone else.

I would agree with you in that good works result from the heart change.

Saying, "You have to" isn't exactly the way I'd put it. To me it's simply, If you've undergone this change of heart, you want to and shall do good works, given your heart, the Spirit, insight into what's to be done, and opportunity/time for growth.

Another issue I have is with the overwhelming majority of hate that comes from Baptist churches. (Sorry I keep mentioning Baptist because that is really all I know.) Too many sermons were about how babies in Africa were doomed to hell fire just because they didn't know Jesus Christ. How Buddhists and Jews, Islamic and Pagans, were all doomed to hell no matter how "good" their moral character and behaviors were.

On this, a qualified acceptance. Being a Calvinist I'm among people who entrust babies to a merciful God's mercy. We don't know, because Scripture doesn't tell. But we think we see in Scripture at least when babies die, the assumption is that they're with God.

As for conventional human morality, I'd probably disagree with you. To me God doesn't grade on a curve. No one gets a "pass" when it comes to moral character. Everyone is in sin. This path leads invariably to death -- but relying in God does not lead to death. So: still a path.

I like to take Jesus for his word and his message alone. I don't understand how so much hate can be preached with Jesus Christs message was about love.

It's really both. Jesus' message to the religious people of His day is condemning. It should be a lesson for the religious people of our day, yes.

The condemnation is there, in Mt 5-7, 25 it's quite clear, as in other places. But it seems to me it's an unexpected judgment of people who thought they were all right.

It is my belief that as so long as you believe in God, or a higher power, that you moral character and actions are "good" that you are already on the path to being saved. I do not believe God cares what name you call upon him by as so long as you call his name.

I don't think so. I do think there are ways for God to save people who don't know about Jesus. I think God was doing this for a millenium before Christ. But I don't think God evaluates moral character as a standard. Romans 3:9-28 essentially demands a different criterion for saving people. Not morality, that way leads only to death. But reliance -- "faith".

That is why my heart is conflicted. I've felt this way for 15 years now and I'm just not sure how to sort this out.


Can anyone help me? I really want to get out in my community and get to know like minded others to worship and celebrate with. I just don't know WHERE I belong.

Thank you in advance.

Your final statement about your belief that God evaluates and "passes" human moral actions, that's a view I've only found among practitioners of unity and unitarianism. You'll find people who agree with you. You won't find people who agree with Christianity there.

Can I urge you to try out an episcopal or a more moderate Presbyterian denomination before you can the essence of Christianity, here? Often aberrations of Christianity lead you to taking an "about face" on Christianity, when in reality the truth is a different kind of reform. These slightly different denominations can sometimes help you resolve on the real issues in Christianity. And that'll help ground you better in the problems in your home denomination.

It's done that for me, and frankly I've found a new home denomination in the EPC. I hope it'll do that for you.

 

[ModestKittee]

Thank you Mikey. Very thoughtful and informative post.

I am quite conflicted...let me explain.

I am so conservative. I believe women should be women and I believe that I should wear my hair long and wear skirts and dresses. Not that I always do but I try as much as I can. I love my husband and I want to have a family with him. He isn't very religious and I think he's some what afraid that I might become a bit of a "zealot."

I've always felt close to God and I just want to find a community where I can continue on my journey of getting to know Him better.

I never really considered Baptists to be "extremists" or "out-there" because that was all I knew but I think your right. They are pretty "outspoken" about their particular beliefs.

I really wish there wasn't so much infighting in Christianity. Seems like everyone has their own belief set and everyone else is "wrong."


I haven't considered episcopal or a Presbyterian church, though perhaps I should I think there is one near by.

Thanks again for your post. Merry Christmas.

 

[[serious]]

Ok, my view on this:
1. I fully accept that I don't know the details of the afterlife.
2. I do know that historically the view of the afterlife has changed substantially in the history of the judeo-christian religions.
3. I have trouble meshing any sort of meaningful justice concept with infinite suffering.
4. There are a variety of approaches to the matter withing the history of the religion that do not include infinite suffering.
5. I thus choose to view it as one of those historical concepts.

Now, outlining a couple of views:
1. No afterlife/post death awareness. This appears to be the oldest jewish belief of death. "The dead do not praise Yahweh, nor do any that go down into silence." "so man lies down and rises not again till the heavens are no more he will not awake, or be aroused out of his sleep."
2. Heaven, but no hell. I'm not sure the time period where this was the norm of belief, but for a while it was assumed that only the good would be raised from the dead. the evil would simply be consumed in fire and be no more. The good would receive eternal life, but not necessarily equal reward. (there are bible verses to support equality in heaven and differing levels of reward)
3. Purgatory. A fairly recent comer to the afterlife views. The idea is that sins were paid for by varying amounts of time suffering followed by admittance into heaven. There also exists a universalist version of this which places all people in such a place to pay their debt regardless of faith and then allows entrance to heaven for all.

Judging from the OP, I get the feeling a purgatory type model might be appealing to you. It provides justice for actions on earth without necessarily allowing a well timed confession/conversion to bypass any accountability.

I would find a version of the afterlife you can work with and rest assured that it won't be on the final. Lets face it, if we have to get every detail right, we're pretty much ALL out of luck.

 

[SinclairJ]

God is obviously moving in your heart. I felt much the same way you do about the infighting that there appears to be within the church. Therefore I purposely sought out a non-denominational bible teaching church. I also attend a house church near my home when I can, but you should definitely try all kinds of Christian churches and pray to have God show you where HE wants yous to be.

I believe you are correct in saying there is so much more than taking people down "Romans Road" and then they are in!!! That is a great starting point, but there is much work to be done. As Christians we need to understand what repentance is. I don't believe anyone has been truly saved unless they have turned from the life they once lived. No one can continue in sin and expect good results. But of course we do live in the land of arrogant and prideful people where we expects A+ results for D work. Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23 that there will be many who He turns away from claiming that He never knew them. There are studies that say as many as 90% of the people who come to the altar to accept Christ (and come to church every Sunday) have never truly been born again. They don't understand that God hates sin and have never turned from those sins that bind them.

One final remark.... be careful about choosing a buffet style God. I know many people who want to pick and choose what they want to believe (just the good parts) and not worry about "all that other stuff". This is idolatry at it highest level. Just because a statue has not yet been erected does not mean it's not idolatry.

Praise God that you are seeking Him. It is good that you question the things you have been taught. The single greatest thing you can do is stay grounded in the word of God. Test everything against His word.

 

[heron]

When God created the world, He did not create Jew and Greek, Hindi, Muslim, American, Transylvanian. He created Human, and declared that it was good.

We humans broke ourselves down into loyalties, and declared ourselves part of groups. Adam didn't know what an Israelite was, and Moses didn't know what a Christian was. David is often mentioned in discussions on Messianic prophecy, but he had little knowledge of what God had planned.

When humans multiplied and spread across the earth, wreaking havoc and imposing injustices on each other, God offered a set of Laws which would stabilize and protect. If everyone respected these laws (even if all weren't followed), then everyone could operate from the same premise of fairness. They would hold each other accountable.

People fail, people sin, but some apologize and make things right. As a person grows old, they look back on the compiled mistakes and thoughtlessness with regret, and the guilt can weigh heavily. They might see a hundred, a million injuries they caused to other people, and want to make it right. God helps us make it right.

Forgiveness and salvation have always been in God's hands. People like to perform all the correct formulas and answer all the right test questions, so they maintain control over their destinies. But God never allowed us to be in control of our eternal justice. By decision, we can accept His forgiveness and absolution, His cleansing and offer to make us righteous. But it is only a decision, and we still face Him humbly for our futures.

Abraham's faith counted toward him as righteousness. Romans 4:9

12 A father of circumcision to those not of circumcision only, but also to those walking in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham during uncircumcision.

13 For the promise was not through Law to Abraham, or to his seed, for him to be the heir of the world, but through a righteousness of faith.

14 For if those of Law are heirs, faith has been made of no effect, and the promise has been annulled.

15 For the Law works out wrath; for where no law is, neither is

16 On account of this, transgression. it is of faith, that it be according to grace, for the promise to be certain to all the seed, not to that of the Law only, but also to that of the faith of Abraham, who is father of us all,

17 according as it has been written, "I have appointed you a father of many nations;" before God, whom he believed, the One making the dead live, and calling the things that are not as if they were. Gen. 17:5

18 He against hope believed in hope, for him to become a father of many nations, according to what has been said, "So shall your seed be." Gen. 15:5


Abraham was not a circumsized Jew. He just listed to God and trusted. Noah was not a circumsized Jew, but followed the leadings that God gave him to save civilization. Moses was a Jew, who did not grow up with the teachings of Judaism, but he still heard from God.

Paul/Saul was a law-abiding Jew, but not a Christian when God jostled and started him on the journey to preach the salvation plan to nations, and mentor churches. Paul acted on what he was given, and God blessed it.

Throughout the history of Judaism and Christianity, there have always been openings for outsiders of faith. And not just openings, but prominence. But God retains the right to discern what is in a person's heart.

 

[ModestKittee]

Heron, thank you for the beautiful post. You said what I feel in my heart with much more eloquence than I could ever master.

Thank you.

 

[heymikey80]

I am so conservative. I believe women should be women and I believe that I should wear my hair long and wear skirts and dresses. Not that I always do but I try as much as I can. I love my husband and I want to have a family with him. He isn't very religious and I think he's some what afraid that I might become a bit of a "zealot."

I appreciate that there are different roles we're called to. Your husband's evaluation could be reasonable. And you're his wife. He wants the best for you. And the best might not be more of the same, but less, actually.

I tend to encourage my wife as more of a tomboy. She also appreciates some role differences, but some pervasive dress and exertion limits on her sex, it doesn't seem right to her or me.

And some things are more important than others. Some things are not as morally offensive as others. My home church's youth pastor called it majoring on the minors: the morality of "Don't swear, drink, smoke or chew // or go out with those who do." We're often neglecting much deeper moral issues when we obsess on appearances. I think Jesus said some things about that as well.

But I'm unwilling to depart the basics, that I feel a kinship with Baptists on. The idea of the path to salvation occurring not by moral action of evil people but by relying on the One Who is moral, that is very important to me.

In terms of "not very religious", there are different gauges for that. It's hard to tell from here. Is he not a believer in your view? But I've seen so many different gradations, it's tough to say from here.

I've always felt close to God and I just want to find a community where I can continue on my journey of getting to know Him better.

I think that's really important. It may be though that understanding some of your husband's concerns are that path -- and also the path to better communion with him and with God.

God isn't sloppy, though. And some of us guys are just sloppy about our relationship with Him. Often we need our wives to not be so sloppy.

I never really considered Baptists to be "extremists" or "out-there" because that was all I knew but I think your right. They are pretty "outspoken" about their particular beliefs.

Heh, we're everywhere! Really, it's good to talk about what you can relate, support, and appreciate. As long as it doesn't interfere with the Gospel.

I really wish there wasn't so much infighting in Christianity. Seems like everyone has their own belief set and everyone else is "wrong."

I'd have to say -- the nice thing about a Presbyterian church is when Presbyterians haven't missed their First Point -- that "everybody's wrong".

It's easy for people who have found a place of acceptance in a church to think we're right, or "better". It's such a common condition, I've no doubt any church you find will have some people with this feeling about themselves. I pray you find a group that's much more honest with their own wrongs.

I haven't considered episcopal or a Presbyterian church, though perhaps I should I think there is one near by.

Just a thought. Not every church has "got it" regarding God's grace. I've only noticed the ratio is higher in these churches.

 

[ModestKittee]

Mike- Thank you again for another thoughtful post. I enjoy reading the reply here I really do.

 

[ModestKittee]

So I'm studying quite a bit this last week...

What are your opinions on Islam?

 

[visionary]

Ok, my view on this:
1. I fully accept that I don't know the details of the afterlife.
2. I do know that historically the view of the afterlife has changed substantially in the history of the judeo-christian religions.
3. I have trouble meshing any sort of meaningful justice concept with infinite suffering.
4. There are a variety of approaches to the matter withing the history of the religion that do not include infinite suffering.
5. I thus choose to view it as one of those historical concepts.

Now, outlining a couple of views:
1. No afterlife/post death awareness. This appears to be the oldest jewish belief of death. "The dead do not praise Yahweh, nor do any that go down into silence." "so man lies down and rises not again till the heavens are no more he will not awake, or be aroused out of his sleep."
2. Heaven, but no hell. I'm not sure the time period where this was the norm of belief, but for a while it was assumed that only the good would be raised from the dead. the evil would simply be consumed in fire and be no more. The good would receive eternal life, but not necessarily equal reward. (there are bible verses to support equality in heaven and differing levels of reward)
3. Purgatory. A fairly recent comer to the afterlife views. The idea is that sins were paid for by varying amounts of time suffering followed by admittance into heaven. There also exists a universalist version of this which places all people in such a place to pay their debt regardless of faith and then allows entrance to heaven for all.

Judging from the OP, I get the feeling a purgatory type model might be appealing to you. It provides justice for actions on earth without necessarily allowing a well timed confession/conversion to bypass any accountability.

I would find a version of the afterlife you can work with and rest assured that it won't be on the final. Lets face it, if we have to get every detail right, we're pretty much ALL out of luck.

Don't forget to include this verse....

Malachi 4:3
And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Now addressing OP. Truly, the heart felt answers to satisfy your soul come from the Lord. When I was in your place seeking, I got a concordance, the bible and a vow with God that I would not stop searching til I found Him. I wanted the Rev 3:20 meeting. I put my finger on that promise and set my mind to searching the scriptures on all meetings with God. I wanted to know what others experienced, what did they see, what did they feel, what did they hear, and what should I expect in God's Presence. I needed to know what preparations needed to be made in my heart to meet God. It took six months of study with only the concordance, a scribbler, and the Bible with lots of prayer for guidance to get me to the place where the Lord consented to meet with me. It was the fulfillment of the "peace that passes all understanding, ' sup with me", 'wisdom and understanding' and "full of grace".... saw Him in "His clearness" "Holy and Awesome" Presence. You can too.

I believe that before you can find satisfaction with other groups of believers, you must satisfy your own heart and its relationship with God.

 

[gennaoanothen]

Merry Christmas everyone.
I was baptized back in 1991 and said the acceptance prayer back during that time with the pastor of the church I was attending (Baptist.) My father was also a Baptist preacher way back before I was even born.

I have to say that I have some fundamental problems with the "Born again" philosophy. Please bear with me while I explain.

Merry Christmas to you also.

Philosophy is of the mind, and I would agree many people do have a head knowledge, or may recite a prayer from there head, but there Spirit (heart) can be far from God.
God is Spirit and we must worship Him in spirit and truth. Being a Baptist I am sure you are familuar with Romans 10:9-10

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

A person that is Born Again has a heart (spirit) faith, and all good works will be "fruit", a fruit because of there heart felt love for Jesus Christ our Lord, and fruit will be there 7 days a week, because they truly believe.

and yes a Christian can fail, but the Lord will bring them back to Him.

 

[GoodNewsJim]

think he's some what afraid that I might become a bit of a "zealot."

Nothing wrong with becoming a zealot as long as your zeal is in helping others. The greatest commandment is to love God and one another as yourself.