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Pope: Saving world from homosexuality like saving rainforests
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Garyzenuf
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Its what you're using to judge others, and it will be how you are judged, no matter where you get your laws from bsd13.
P.S.- I'm an atheist, I don't think you will be judged at all, just makes you come off as a bit hypocritical(sp?).
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bsd13
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Its what you're using to judge others, and it will be how you are judged, no matter where you get your laws from bsd13.
P.S.- I'm an atheist, I don't think you will be judged at all, just makes you come off as a bit hypocritical(sp?).
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No, I would be judged for being silent on the matter. Not for pointing people to what the Word of God says. It is up to you what is done with it after I point it out. Their blood is on their own heads so to speak.
People seem to misconstrue pointing out what the Bible says as judging them. It's not. Their own conscience is what judges them in this life. It happens to me all the time. I read a passage in the Bible and am my conscience judges me of wrong doing and I am convicted. It's not just for homosexuals (or any other group of people)
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bsd13
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You've read the whole thing? From beginning to end? Forgive me for being skeptical but I hear that a lot and then after further discussion usually find out that "I've read it" means I've read enough quotes to form an opinion.
Anyhow, let me guess I'll give you some stuff from the old testament and you'll retort with something along the lines of "Oh I thought the old testament was null and void because Jesus came?"
And then I'll give you some new testament scriptures and you'll say something like "Wait, Jesus never specifically said anything against homosexuality. These scriptures are all from other people, not direct quotes from Christ."
If that's the case let me know so we can skip the quoting of the scriptures and move to the next part of the challenge.
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I used to be a fairly strong Christian. I can't claim that I have memorized the entire thing, but I have read it. I wanted to see what you knew, and seeing that you presented that previous scenario, you must.
No, my real question is this:
Why should a secular nation not grant these rights, even if it goes against a specific religion's tenets? The New Testament was written for Christians, for you to follow. Why do you wish for that to be imposed on a nation that doesn't recognize any religion as being correct and has a basis in providing religious and personal freedom to citizen?
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bsd13
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But I don't believe that God is an abstract notion, or thought. I believe He is very much a living, walking, talking, being. Who "just happens" to be God.
I personally could not care much less what the pope has to say about anything. Despite what Catholics would have many believe the Pope is not the mediator between God and man. Jesus Christ alone fills that role.
As for shellfish, God declared all food "clean" and Christ preached it is not what enters a man's stomach that makes him unclean, but what comes out of his mouth. In other words a man is clean or unclean based on his heart not what he eats.
You are absolutely right about setting aside a time for God. Most Christians do it every day. Me personally I try to spend 2 hours a day with God alone. 1 hour reading the Bible, and 1 hour praying. That's time dedicated to God. I also "pray continually" but that time isn't exclusive to God. The principle of the sabbath day is to reflect upon the goodness of God, spend time with family, etc.
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bsd13
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Yes, in fact I'd go so far as to say that the ENTIRE Bible is written by God for His followers. But that doesn't mean that the very same laws in it don't apply to all people. It says He will judge His creation. It doesn't say He will judge the believers and no one else. Anyone can read the Bible, but His children have a greater insight into it. Don't know how it works, but it does.
His judgment is based on His laws (which are cataloged for us in the Bible) not on our modern sense of morality. When I say that there are moral absolutes that's what I mean. There is a final say in morality. I believe that to be God. You may disagree with me, but that doesn't make me wrong.
Whether the US recognizes God's laws in this modern era or not doesn't make them more or less valid. In other words they don't change with the times. As the Bible says God is the same for all eternity (sic) and His Word is settled forever in heaven. Meaning that He hasn't changed His standards of morality.
He hasn't said that lying is now suddenly ok, but He's changed how He deals with it. Same with any other sin, including homosexuality.
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heres a good question;
if you had to either choose to save the rainforrest, or save people from teh gays, which would you choose?
Rainforest for me.
if you had to either choose to save the rainforrest, or save people from teh gays, which would you choose?
Rainforest for me.
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I said the New Testament is written for Christians, because if I said the entire Bible I know some Jewish people that would take exception to, in a way, suggesting the Old Testament isn't theirs.
My point is you can't legislate morality as a secular nation. Even in the Bible there's only been one established theocracy created by God, and that's Israel. The fact that the US doesn't recognize one religion as being correct does mean we can't make laws based on one religion. We are supposed to provide freedom to people.
I'd also point out to you that lying is not against the law unless under oath. Having a different God is not against the law, nor having idols. You don't try to create laws that would outlaw these things.
Why do you stand so firm on THIS, and not the others? I have never received an answer to this question and, honestly, I'm not sure I ever will.
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TheBear
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By "living", do you mean god is an organism made up of organic materials? Is god carbon-based? Does god have physical dimensions? If so, what are they?
By "walking", do you mean that god needs to travel from place to place? What is god's average stride? How long does it take god to walk from Los Angeles to New York?
By "talking", do you mean god physically has lungs, a mouth, a tongue, teeth and vocal cords? Can god talk in deep space where there is no air?
I ask these questions for you to ask yourself this - Are you sure your god isn't just an abstract notion?
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TheBear
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Great! Then you'll have no problem answering my detailed questions.
Here they are again -
By "living", do you mean god is an organism made up of organic materials? Is god carbon-based? Does god have physical dimensions? If so, what are they?
By "walking", do you mean that god needs to travel from place to place? What is god's average stride? How long does it take god to walk from Los Angeles to New York?
By "talking", do you mean god physically has lungs, a mouth, a tongue, teeth and vocal cords? Can god talk in deep space where there is no air?
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uberd00b
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Ah wonderful, good job Mr. Pope.
Another high profile figure demonstrating just how irrelevant ancient doctrine is to the modern world, and the damage that adherence to dogma can do to your sense of morality and honesty.
Cases like this serve as a great warning against dogma, in my opinion. It certainly does warn us against those who would claim to speak for god, but cannot even make sense on an issue as simple as homosexuality. Onwards to irrelevancy Christians!
Another high profile figure demonstrating just how irrelevant ancient doctrine is to the modern world, and the damage that adherence to dogma can do to your sense of morality and honesty.
Cases like this serve as a great warning against dogma, in my opinion. It certainly does warn us against those who would claim to speak for god, but cannot even make sense on an issue as simple as homosexuality. Onwards to irrelevancy Christians!
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