Orthodox understanding of the Eucharist..

[MoNiCa4316]

I've been thinking about Christ being truly present in the Eucharist.. and I'm wondering, according to Orthodox understanding, could it be said that when you're before the Eucharist, it's like you're standing before the Lord physically present, like 2000 years ago? Only of course He is glorified and risen and it's not quite the same. But..do you believe that even though God is omnipresent and always close to us spiritually, that we're in fact closer to Him in the Eucharist...because at other times, His Body is ONLY in Heaven, but in this case His Body is in Heaven but also right there in front of you as well. It's like His Body is on earth again.

Or is this asking the wrong question?

(this was very hard for me to describe soo sorry if my post makes no sense..)

I guess my fundamental question is.. is there a distinction between being with the Lord spiritually (like we always are), and being physically near to Him present in the Eucharist.. or, is there no distinction between His Spirit and His Body, and it's one and the same?

I just remembered, one of my friends from university doesn't believe in the Eucharist because she says whenever the Holy Spirit is present, Christ is physically there as well, like His Body=His Spirit. I'm sort of confused.. (she's Protestant)

thanks
God bless

 

[Rowan]

I just remembered, one of my friends from university doesn't believe in the Eucharist because she says whenever the Holy Spirit is present, Christ is physically there as well, like His Body=His Spirit. I'm sort of confused.. (she's Protestant)

I think your friend is in some kind of logic error, possibly false dichotomy. So, because Christ is ever-present (that He is), that the Eucharist being the Body and Blood of Christ doesn't make any difference?

This seems absurd (w/o the negative connotation, just "absurd"): following it's logical conclusion, does that mean those of us who believe that the Eucharist is the Body and Bloody of Christ do not believe that He is present always, even until the end of the age?

Why the either/or instead of the both/and? Why such a minimalist understanding?

This is why I can't really answer your question, because it seems reductionist.

 

[Reader Antonius]

Are you referring to a notion of perichoresis?

...Or is it like the opposite in the sense that where Christ is, there is the Holy Spirit?

The Eucharist, substantially, is the Lord Jesus Christ totally and utterly. Thus the ousios of the Eucharist is God, but the Person is Christ, not the Holy Spirit.

That's how it was passed on to me anyway.

I mean, I guess you could say that the Eucharist is the Holy Spirit since the Holy Spirit is God, but we must not forget that the Holy Spirit, while God, is not Christ and vice-versa.

Honestly I am kind of lost as to what you are getting at here........

 

[MoNiCa4316]

lol sorry it's kind of hard to describe I guess
what I meant is..could it be said that Christ is present in the Eucharist in a different way than anywhere else in the world. Because although He is always with us, His Body and Blood - only present in the Eucharist, and in Heaven, nowhere else. So when you're before the Lord in the Eucharist, is it like you're near Him physically not just spiritually, as if 2000 years ago? Because I recently learned that Christians believe all kinds of different things about this. Some say yes, some say no, some - like my friend - say that Christ is everywhere equally in the same way; and there's no distinction between the Son and the Holy Spirit 'Persons' of the Trinity.

What would be the Orthodox answer?

 

[ProScribe]

What would be the Orthodox answer?

The Holy Spirit transforms the gifts. It remains 'mystery' that is not defined in scholastic terms.

 

[Barky]

So when you're before the Lord in the Eucharist, is it like you're near Him physically not just spiritually, as if 2000 years ago?

Remember that Christ was taken body and soul into heaven. He is not dead, He is risen, and is the same today as He has been since before time.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

The Holy Spirit transforms the gifts. It remains 'mystery' that is not defined in scholastic terms.

but do you all believe that it's physically Christ's Body? (not materially of course) or do you not think in these terms at all..

 

[ProScribe]

[edit]

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Remember that Christ was taken body and soul into heaven. He is not dead, He is risen, and is the same today as He has been since before time.

not disagreeing with this at all..

 

[MoNiCa4316]

hmm I'm still kind of lost.
I guess if you could answer this question for me it would really help:
do you believe that Christ is present in the Eucharist:
-physically and spiritually
-spiritually only
-neither / wrong terminology.

 

[Reader Antonius]

Remember that Christ was taken body and soul into heaven. He is not dead, He is risen, and is the same today as He has been since before time.

How can that be? Before time Christ did not have a human nature.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

How can that be? Before time Christ did not have a human nature.

I think maybe what he means is that Heaven is outside of time

 

[ProScribe]

hmm I'm still kind of lost.
I guess if you could answer this question for me it would really help:
do you believe that Christ is present in the Eucharist:
-physically and spiritually
-spiritually only
-neither / wrong terminology.

-< 'I don't know' >-

 

[Reader Antonius]

I think maybe what he means is that Heaven is outside of time

Ahhhh.....gotcha.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

lol it's oki maybe my question is too complex

 

[seashale76]

lol it's oki maybe my question is too complex

You could always find a way to ask the priest at your parents' parish. You were meaning to speak to him eventually about your desire to convert to Catholicism anyway, weren't you?

 

[MoNiCa4316]

You could always find a way to ask the priest at your parents' parish. You were meaning to speak to him eventually about your desire to convert to Catholicism anyway, weren't you?

yes, but my family hasn't gone to church since like Sept... I can't go there alone cause I can't drive lol, and there aren't any buses in my area. Well I'm trusting God that it will all work out eventually.

 

[Bessie]

My understanding is that yes, Christ is physically present in the Eucharist. When I became Orthodox, one of the many things I had to confess at my Chrismation was:

"I believe and confess that: in the Divine Liturgy, under the mystical offering of bread and wine, the faithful partake of the true Body and Blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins and eternal life."
Also, at Liturgy we say:
"I believe O Lord, and I confess, that this is truly thine own immaculate body,and that this is truly my most precious blood..."
That seems fairly clear to my little pea brain. No idea, if it's more nuanced than that...


Bessie

 

[Bessie]

Oh also,I wanted to add that at the Presanctified Liturgy everyone prostrates themselves (knees to the ground, head on the ground) when the presantified gifts are brought in, and we are told "The King of Glory enters." I think the Orthodox have a pretty strong understanding of the physical presence of Christ in the Eucharist, even though they don't define it as tightly as the Roman Catholics.

Bessie

 

[Reader Antonius]

I think the Orthodox have a pretty strong understanding of the physical presence of Christ in the Eucharist, even though they don't define it as tightly as the Roman Catholics.

Bessie

Agreed. It probably stems from the apophatic method more than anything else.

But I don't think anyone can deny that the Orthodox Churches believe firmly that the bread and the wine become truly the Body and Blood of Christ on a substantial level.

LOL, I have seen Lutherans try to defend consubstantiation by saying "well the Orthodox believe it!"

I think Orthodox hierarchs and theologians like Patriarch Gennadios II of Constantinople, Gabriel Serverus, and the Orthodox Confession of 1640 in Russia show these things quite clearly.

There are also numerous synods that proclaim the firm belief of Eastern Orthodoxy in the substantial Real Presence in the Eucharist like the Constantinopolitan Councils of 1642 and 1727 and the Council at Jerusalem 1672 which condemned Kyrillos Loukaris of Constantinople and the Protestant heresies that had crept into the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

In short, I don't think Orthodox believe on the Eucharist is hard to discern....but that's just me.