Trickle down theory, did it work?

[TheNewWorldMan]

This is one of the most idiotic things I've ever read.

Next time I go to a restaurant, I'll tell the waiter I'm sending his tip to Bill Gates, George Soros, and T. Boone Pickens.

That should make the neocons happy.

 

[FTPolice]

Listen, if that hobo can't use his capital to manipulate global markets ,labor policy and governments around the globe than he deserves to starve for being lazy, stupid or both.

 

[tulc]

Well, there's always Obama's alternative of "share the wealth". One guy tried it and it didn't work too well......

In a local restaurant my server had on a "Obama 08" tie, again I laughed as he had given away his political preference--just imagine the coincidence.

When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight.

I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside as I've decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.

At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient deserved money more.

I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.

http://robertbluey.com/blog/2008/10/25/redistribution-of-wealth-experiment-3/

...or he could say "I'm going to take a page from the McCain tax plan and give the manager of this restaurant the tip and I'm sure he'll be so grateful that the next time you get sick he'll pay your doctor bills."
tulc(because management always has the workers welfare as their top priority)

 

[variant]

Trickle down economics did exactly what it was supposed to do.

Amass wealth in the hands of a small percentage of already wealthy individuals.

Well, at least until the banking system collapsed.

So, it did do exactly what it was supposed to do before predictably collapsing the system like every other time it's been tried.

 

[variant]

...or he could say "I'm going to take a page from the McCain tax plan and give the manager of this restaurant the tip and I'm sure he'll be so grateful that the next time you get sick he'll pay your doctor bills."
tulc(because management always has the workers welfare as their top priority)

If you want the McCain tax plan, you have to give it to the chain owner.

 

[tulc]

If you want the McCain tax plan, you have to give it to the chain owner.

Ahh! Good point!
tulc(never could get the hang of trickle down economics)

 

[bexcellent]

I've seen couple arguments in this forum regards to the trickle down theory.
They claim that with the tax deductions for the rich, the economy will see prosperity and the government will ultimately benefit. They have raised a good point here and provided evidence which suggests that with the tax deduction, the government had seen boost to their tax revenue.

But was it all "awesome" as fiscal conservative would claim? Here are my argument against trickle down theory.

1. Though the nation raised its GDP to a formidable degree, the average income for Americans stayed the same or even less ($1000/yr average). All the while, the rich increased their wealth by triple or double digit.
(No excuse for Canada as well. Its pathetic)

2. Declining manufacturing sector (automobiles etc) went unnoticed.

3. Average individuals credit debt spiked (and the housing credit l.o.l)

Trickle down is a misnomer.

Too many people in this country think they are owed something. It has been a plague in this country for a long time now that college graduates think they are owed something and think they should start at the top. Too many expect a desk and a cushy job where they warm a chair, surf the internet and get a sizable paycheck. I remember people complaining about import cars when American were crap and didn't even fit together properly. Our forefathers didn't come here looking for a handout.

Listen to Sarah Palin. She is right on the money. If we take away the incentive to produce in this country, we're dead in the water, and if Obama gets his way, that's exactly the situation that will worsen more than it already is.

 

[KarateCowboy]

I've seen couple arguments in this forum regards to the trickle down theory.
They claim that with the tax deductions for the rich, the economy will see prosperity and the government will ultimately benefit. They have raised a good point here and provided evidence which suggests that with the tax deduction, the government had seen boost to their tax revenue.

But was it all "awesome" as fiscal conservative would claim? Here are my argument against trickle down theory.

1. Though the nation raised its GDP to a formidable degree, the average income for Americans stayed the same or even less ($1000/yr average). All the while, the rich increased their wealth by triple or double digit.
(No excuse for Canada as well. Its pathetic)

2. Declining manufacturing sector (automobiles etc) went unnoticed.

3. Average individuals credit debt spiked (and the housing credit l.o.l)

While trickle-down economics does work to a degree, it is nowhere near as tenacious as trickle up poverty, which the socialist Democrats want to institute. At the end of the day, the only fair is laissez-faire

 

[illudium_phosdex]

Trickle down is a misnomer.

Too many people in this country think they are owed something. It has been a plague in this country for a long time now that college graduates think they are owed something and think they should start at the top. Too many expect a desk and a cushy job where they warm a chair, surf the internet and get a sizable paycheck. I remember people complaining about import cars when American were crap and didn't even fit together properly. Our forefathers didn't come here looking for a handout.

Listen to Sarah Palin. She is right on the money. If we take away the incentive to produce in this country, we're dead in the water, and if Obama gets his way, that's exactly the situation that will worsen more than it already is.

Finally a voice of reason in this thread!

The rest of you think Obama is the answer. In some ways, I almost wish he would get elected so that the right people will get blamed this time.

 

[Maren]

Trickle down is a misnomer.

Too many people in this country think they are owed something. It has been a plague in this country for a long time now that college graduates think they are owed something and think they should start at the top. Too many expect a desk and a cushy job where they warm a chair, surf the internet and get a sizable paycheck. I remember people complaining about import cars when American were crap and didn't even fit together properly. Our forefathers didn't come here looking for a handout.

Listen to Sarah Palin. She is right on the money. If we take away the incentive to produce in this country, we're dead in the water, and if Obama gets his way, that's exactly the situation that will worsen more than it already is.

Okay, so let's say you are making $249,000/year in your job. Now, your boss comes to you and tells you that if you work an extra hour a day that you could make $299,000/year. Are you seriously claiming that you would not work the extra hour per day because Obama is going to tax $49,000 of the extra you'd make by an additional 3%? That you'd give up an additional $50,000 dollars because you'd have to pay an extra $1,500 dollars in taxes?

Using this logic, why does anybody earn more than $10,000/year when they'll have to pay taxes if they earn more than that?

 

[bexcellent]

Trickle down economics did exactly what it was supposed to do.

Amass wealth in the hands of a small percentage of already wealthy individuals.

Well, at least until the banking system collapsed.

So, it did do exactly what it was supposed to do before predictably collapsing the system like every other time it's been tried.

Look around. It's axiomatic in business that 10-20 percent of the people do 80 percent of the work. Sure seems like there's a lot more than 20 percent of the people in this country that are living pretty decent lives. I thought people in this country wanted to become wealthy; what are we going to do--take that freedom away, too? It's already nuts what people who want to start a business have to go through with taxes, fees, risk, red tape and almost crippling regulations.

 

[variant]

Look around. It's axiomatic in business that 10-20 percent of the people do 80 percent of the work. Sure seems like there's a lot more than 20 percent of the people in this country that are living pretty decent lives. I thought people in this country wanted to become wealthy; what are we going to do--take that freedom away, too? It's already nuts what people who want to start a business have to go through with taxes, fees, risk, red tape and almost crippling regulations.

I've never noticed any such trend. Pulling numbers out of your ... (well I'll leave the rest unsaid).

What should I look at? I am the lowest paid salaried worker at my company and I do much more than my share of the work. Frankly I’m holding my companies quality control department together with duct tape (since I’m given little to no budget to work with).

No my company isn’t struggling, they are just cheap, the owner profits wildly and I’ve never even seen the man at our cooperation of 400 people.

I suppose he needs a new tax cut to squirrel away while he continues to make bad decisions that cost our company money.

 

[tulc]

Finally a voice of reason in this thread!

I thought most people in this thread sounded pretty reasonable, even the ones I don't agree with.

The rest of you think Obama is the answer.

uhmm I think he has some answers. Don't you think who ever you're voting for has some answers?

In some ways, I almost wish he would get elected so that the right people will get blamed this time.

...or get the credit if they are right?
tulc(thinks that seems reasonable)

 

[bexcellent]

I've never noticed any such trend. Pulling numbers out of your ... (well I'll leave the rest unsaid).

What should I look at? I am the lowest paid salaried worker at my company and I do much more than my share of the work. Frankly I’m holding my companies quality control department together with duct tape (since I’m given little to no budget to work with).

No my company isn’t struggling, they are just cheap, the owner profits wildly and I’ve never even seen the man at our cooperation of 400 people.

I suppose he needs a new tax cut to squirrel away while he continues to make bad decisions that cost our company money.

There:

http://management.about.com/cs/generalmanagement/a/Pareto081202.htm

Pull that out of your...

Nobody's holding a gun to your head and making you stay with that company. Maybe you should make a smarter choice.

 

[FTPolice]

There:

http://management.about.com/cs/generalmanagement/a/Pareto081202.htm

Pull that out of your...

Nobody's holding a gun to your head and making you stay with that company. Maybe you should make a smarter choice.

That's quite unscientific and anyway, it was used to highlight income inequality and has nothing to do with production, read it again. So yea, it's pulled out of your butt.

And make smarter choices? Come on, dude. Maybe that's the best paying job in the area, maybe he can't afford to move, maybe he's tied to that job because of insurance, etc.

A free market requires people to be able to have truly free choice. Even friedman wrote about this.

If you're basically extorted by circumstance to hold a crappy job, you aren't really making a choice. Gun to your head or no.

 

[bexcellent]

That's quite unscientific and anyway, it was used to highlight income inequality and has nothing to do with production, read it again. So yea, it's pulled out of your butt.

And make smarter choices? Come on, dude. Maybe that's the best paying job in the area, maybe he can't afford to move, maybe he's tied to that job because of insurance, etc.

A free market requires people to be able to have truly free choice. Even friedman wrote about this.

If you're basically extorted by circumstance to hold a crappy job, you aren't really making a choice. Gun to your head or no.

Don't try to spin this. The terms income inequality are not used in the entire article and only a couple of times was the concept of wealth addressed.

This is sick that we have become such weaklings in this country that so many are surrendering to circumstances, and are looking for government to have to lift them up at the expense of others because they are so weak minded.

What have we become in this country, a bunch of amoebas?

 

[YoungJoonKim]

Don't try to spin this. The terms income inequality are not used in the entire article and only a couple of times was the concept of wealth addressed.

This is sick that we have become such weaklings in this country that so many are surrendering to circumstances, and are looking for government to have to lift them up at the expense of others because they are so weak minded.

What have we become in this country, a bunch of amoebas?

say that to people of depression era before FDR.
yeah...people are people still.

 

[joebudda]

All of these "code words" for attempting to control the market I find amusing, and ignorant.

When you try to control the market you end up causing more problems then you started with. Because the market can't be controlled.

We need to let go of this silly immature fantasy that we can use force to control the market. The market is nothing more then human interaction. And you can't use force to control human interaction without retaliation.

It is the immoral among us who desire to use force to control others for their own gain.

 

[bexcellent]

say that to people of depression era before FDR.
yeah...people are people still.

His programs were a joke that people still understand to this day.

My high school gymnasium was built by those wonderful programs and had to have a steel framework constructed around it to hold it up because the workmanship was so shoddy.

See how many of those who lived through that like my parents who are supporting Obama.

 

[bexcellent]

All of these "code words" for attempting to control the market I find amusing, and ignorant.

When you try to control the market you end up causing more problems then you started with. Because the market can't be controlled.

We need to let go of this silly immature fantasy that we can use force to control the market. The market is nothing more then human interaction. And you can't use force to control human interaction without retaliation.

It is the immoral among us who desire to use force to control others for their own gain.

You are talking to the liberals I suppose?