Sinners Prayer?

[archierieus]

Personally I like verses like this from 1 John..

13 These things I have written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

I have found the prayer of salvation to be a useful tool in reaching souls for Jesus. It is not some idle exercise or ritual. I have been blessed with the incomparable opportunity to use it in leading souls to make a decision for Jesus. This happens frequently, almost on a weekly basis, both from the podium and one to one. Permit me to illustrate how it has worked in my experience. Here is a representative presentation and conversation using the prayer of salvation. The words are mine, and the response is in parentheses:

1. We say, I am a sinner, I cant do it alone, I need a Savior. Amen? (Person nods head.)

2. And as we think of our sins, of our past, we find ourselves crying to God, O God, I hate those things I have done. I don't want to live that way anymore. I don't want the sins I have committed. I want to go a better way. But Lord, it is so hard! In my heart, I want to go a better way, but I need help. Help me, Lord, to turn from sin! In my heart, O Lord, I choose to turn from it, I renounce it, and I want to go towards heaven! Is that your desire, by God's grace? (Nods head, says, 'Amen!)

3. And Lord, I thank you. I thank you because Jesus died on the cross to pay the price for my sins. Thank-you, Lord, that Jesus died in my place. Thank-you, Lord, that Jesus has set me free from bondage to sin. O Lord, I claim Jesus' death on the cross to pay the price for MY sins. And Lord, I ask for Jesus' perfect life to stand in place of my sinful life, in place of my failures, and I thank you, God, that Jesus DOES stand in my place, thank-you, Lord, that I am complete in Christ, thank-you, Lord, that Jesus is my Substitute, and because of Your grace, Lord, right now I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior, and I ask Jesus to take charge of my life! My brother, is that your prayer, is that your desire, right now? (Yes, it is.)

Praise God! There is rejoicing in heaven! The lost has been found, the prodigal has come home, and Jesus wraps His loving arms around you right now, covering you with His pure white robe, welcoming you as a dearly loved son. You are complete in Him, and now you can rejoice in the hope of the glory of God!

[At this point we pray together, I give the rejoicing soul a hug, and rejoice with him or her.]

The soul who makes that kind of decision has AT THAT MOMENT passed from death into life, and has the peace that passes all understanding. Now, he or she prepares for water baptism, as a testimony to the world that s/he has died to the old life, and that a new life has begun. It is now the sacred responsibility of the gospel worker to nurture this new spiritual life, to stay close, to guide, strengthen, to teach from the Word, to help the spiritual baby to stand and walk on his own and to lead others also to Jesus.

Dave

 

[darkshadow]

Lets get this out now. There are things you are to do to be saved that are scriptural.
You must:

1. Believe - "He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household." - Acts 16:30-31

2. Repent - "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out,..." - Acts 3:19

3. Confess - "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." - Romans 10:9

4. Baptized - Acts 2:38 and "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ," - 1 Peter 3:21

5. Teach (by the way you live) - "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you..." Matthew 28:19a-20

The question is, why do so many say all you need is the "Sinners Prayer" to be saved? Where did the concept come from?

 

[Rick Otto]

The question is, why do so many say all you need is the "Sinners Prayer" to be saved? Where did the concept come from?

I think that Arminian Charles Finney was involved, but there was a percusor tradition involving a bench.
Mostly Neutral & sketchy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinners_prayer

Critical but very historicaly informative;
http://www.bible.ca/g-sinners-prayer.htm

 

[lionroar0]

Yes, baptism is part of salvation.

However, modern times have led to strange theological theories about grace.

The fact is... people are so scared of God that they need something to assure that they are 'saved'. So perverse doctrines have been formulated that rely on things like the sinners prayer that assure salvation.

In one phrase. Instant gratification.

Peace

 

[Tonks]

Critical but very historicaly informative;
http://www.bible.ca/g-sinners-prayer.htm

I guess it *is* a new thing...funny I never would have guessed.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Is the "Sinners Prayer" scriptural for salvation? There are no examples of anyone saying it in the Bible.I know we are to repent and confess, but do you have to say the "prayer" to be saved or can you confess another way?

Absoultely Scriptural . You said it yourself - "no examples" . And , the Scriptures state that where there is no law , there is no transgression .

There are many "sinner's prayers" . They are only a guideline ( I don't subscribe to them ) . They can only be a help for someone seeking salvation . WIthout faith , it is worthless .

 

[Tonks]

Absoultely Scriptural

Well, let's see it.

 

[Celticflower]

The question is, why do so many say all you need is the "Sinners Prayer" to be saved? Where did the concept come from?

Probably the same place that sees baptism as the end rather than the beginning of a jouney. So many people seem to think that once they are baptized there ticket on the Heaven bound train has been punched and there is nothing that is gonna make them do anything different than they did before.

I was taught the concept of "I am saved, I am being saved, I will be saved" - an ongoing process of growth in faith and grace leading to eternal salvation.

A book I recently read said that if a person were to tell John Wesley that they were saved on such and such a date, he would first rejoice with them over the fact, then ask "Are you still saved today?"

So, are you?

 

[PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter]

Lets get this out now. There are things you are to do to be saved that are scriptural.
You must:

1. Believe - "He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household." - Acts 16:30-31

2. Repent - "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out,..." - Acts 3:19

3. Confess - "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." - Romans 10:9

4. Baptized - Acts 2:38 and "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ," - 1 Peter 3:21

5. Teach (by the way you live) - "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you..." Matthew 28:19a-20

The question is, why do so many say all you need is the "Sinners Prayer" to be saved? Where did the concept come from?

I would agree with the first three, but not the last two. Baptism does nothing to save you, ask the thief. And number five makes salvation works based, not by grace.

Go Cards!

 

[squint]

I would agree with the first three, but not the last two. Baptism does nothing to save you, ask the thief. And number five makes salvation works based, not by grace.

Go Cards!

Ah, formulamatic incantations. Ya gotta love 'em!

Many years ago in the 'charismatic movement' I witnessed many a believer being admonished after making the 4 step or 5 step or whatever step confession that the 'leader' would lead them into afterwards make a warning to them that Satan would attempt to deny the reality of the event and for the believer not to believe that it was not a real event.

Having grown up in a world of sales pitches I was always rather suspicious of such 'leadings' being 'pitched' from the altars. So many of those 'pitches' are taken directly out of the worldly sales playbooks, except those in the world are FAR better at the methodologies.

The fact will remain to me that the thief was already in place the instant the Words of God came to the person and THAT truth is seldom stated prior to the CLOSE of the deal fwiw.

I NEVER saw any of these 'pitches/altar calls' transpire in the ALC Lutheran churches that I grew up in nor did I see them transpire in the RCC or in many (mild form) denoms such as the Methodists etc.

Southern Baptists put a real serious 'close' on their pew sitters. So do nearly all forms of pentacostal/charismatics.

In the world of 'sales speak' I've learned these various 'closes' as 'assumptive closes' as in the Lutherans/RCC/Methodist churches and the 'hard close' in the others referenced above.

In general it is ALL rote manipulation of the 'masses' to further the business interests of the particular sects. Harsh as that may sound, I hope I can speak freely of what I see as a fact.

enjoy!

squint

 

[Rick Otto]

I hope so, too.

 

[PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter]

Ah, formulamatic incantations. Ya gotta love 'em!

Many years ago in the 'charismatic movement' I witnessed many a believer being admonished after making the 4 step or 5 step or whatever step confession that the 'leader' would lead them into afterwards make a warning to them that Satan would attempt to deny the reality of the event and for the believer not to believe that it was not a real event.

Having grown up in a world of sales pitches I was always rather suspicious of such 'leadings' being 'pitched' from the altars. So many of those 'pitches' are taken directly out of the worldly sales playbooks, except those in the world are FAR better at the methodologies.

The fact will remain to me that the thief was already in place the instant the Words of God came to the person and THAT truth is seldom stated prior to the CLOSE of the deal fwiw.

I NEVER saw any of these 'pitches/altar calls' transpire in the ALC Lutheran churches that I grew up in nor did I see them transpire in the RCC or in many (mild form) denoms such as the Methodists etc.

Southern Baptists put a real serious 'close' on their pew sitters. So do nearly all forms of pentacostal/charismatics.

In the world of 'sales speak' I've learned these various 'closes' as 'assumptive closes' as in the Lutherans/RCC/Methodist churches and the 'hard close' in the others referenced above.

In general it is ALL rote manipulation of the 'masses' to further the business interests of the particular sects. Harsh as that may sound, I hope I can speak freely of what I see as a fact.

enjoy!

squint

That is sooooooo true. Great post.

Go Cards!

 

[JayJay77]

from squint:
In general it is ALL rote manipulation of the 'masses' to further the business interests of the particular sects. Harsh as that may sound, I hope I can speak freely of what I see as a fact.

But wasn't the "sinner's prayer" more or less "invented" during a time where a large portion of the population was illiterate? Why is that important? Becuase they not only didn't read God's Word, but were also unfamiliar with God's ways and any type of prayer to Him.

This said, why not teach them to pray by leading them in a conversation with God that is scripturally sound? Why not teach them during their first encounter with God that it's O.K. to cry out to God, and ask forgiveness?

Thus the birth of the "sinner's prayer."

Can you imagine how many people have been led to God by someone else "helping" them?

 

[archierieus]

I just happened to read some of the recent posts on this thread. I am surprised. Don't know what to say. I cannot speak to the issue of the various churches where observations were made. But I can speak from personal experience. When I stand up to preach, so many times I recognize the presence and guidance of the Spirit of God. A presentation is made, a study is carried forward, and as that is being done, I recognize, so often, the guiding of God's Spirit to call people to a decision. In fact, I believe that in every sermon, the listeners should be brought to the foot of the cross, and called to a decision to give their lives to Jesus, or to faithfully follow Jesus. There may be people in the audience listening, to whom God is THIS DAY appealing to. The appeal goes out to make a decision for Jesus. There are those who are in the valley of decision. Eternity hangs in the balance. These souls need to be reached out to, led step by step to Jesus, to affirm their decision to follow Jesus, and not turn away to the world. Marketing? It is the Spirit of God Who indicts those heartfelt appeals, which are made to the heart. And it is thrilling to see people respond, to stand, to come forward, whatever form it takes. Those present know that God has been in this place, this day. It is a testimony to the power of the Holy Spirit. 'Marketing'? Perhaps, for the kingdom of God.

Dave

 

[PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter]

Hey archi.

Don't think all appeals are bad. It's just that they have been so commercialized and even in your own words, people judge whether or not God has been in the place depending on what happens at the end. Poor Jeremiah preached all those years and never saw one convert. Never led one sinner in any prayer of repentance. Yet he was obedient to God's call. As a preacher myself, I think we put way to much emphasis on the end of the service. We're either elated or deflated depending on how we feel the crowd responds. They can be a good thing and God can certainly use them, but I do feel that there's a lot of manipulation involved.

Go Cards!

 

[New_Wineskin]

Well, let's see it.

It was after that sentence . I suppose you don't see this sentence , either .

 

[squint]

But wasn't the "sinner's prayer" more or less "invented" during a time where a large portion of the population was illiterate?

Not at all. The 'sinners prayer' in the form of the 4 stepper or whatever stepper is a very recent (sales) invention (historically speaking.) It certainly didn't exist in the RCC or even early protestantism if we wanted to use them as an older orthodox examples. I'd say most of those programmed confessions started coming on with the rise of pentacostalism sects...maybe even early baptists, and then 'dumbed down' to the 4 stepper or whatever stepper for expedient radio and television use.

Why is that important? Becuase they not only didn't read God's Word, but were also unfamiliar with God's ways and any type of prayer to Him.

If you really wanted to examine the roots of the 4 or I'll just rephrase to whatever stepper program it was coupled with the early fire and brimstone crowd ala J. Edwards who would scare his crowds to death and then altar call them in with the close. A very tidy little business arrangement imo done in the 'name of God.'

This said, why not teach them to pray by leading them in a conversation with God that is scripturally sound? Why not teach them during their first encounter with God that it's O.K. to cry out to God, and ask forgiveness?

Conversion methodology obviously varies tremendously from sect to sect. Today it covers such a wide spectrum it's nearly impossible to get a handle on the entirety of the matters without diving headlong into the various forms of segmentism.

I could say that was not the goal of the early church, but it WAS the inevitable conclusion that God Himself fully intended and will continue to intend.

Thus the birth of the "sinner's prayer."

Early creeds when formatted into mass incantations could be considered some form of early step programmed salvation (osas or iffy.) The "effectiveness" of such methodology, even if I do believe what those creeds represent (I do entirely adhere to almost all orthodox understandings,) does not mean or equate to an actual change of heart in the individual and in fact could be considered a direct violation of Jesus' Own warnings in these types of matters:

Matthew 6
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Can you imagine how many people have been led to God by someone else "helping" them?

Perhaps most and perhaps in dramatically different formats unto equally as dramatic SEPARATIONS as the final open and obvious end results.

I wouldn't consider myself much of a servant were I only 'helping' make doctrinal converts using systematic formulas. We should remain free to speak truth to one another and even to other people not of the faith.

But what IS the 'faith?' There is a sect on nearly every corner and expanding daily.

Truthful speaking is very nearly not possible today. Division IS what Jesus sought, and that IS part of Gods Desire. We witness this fact daily here in dialogs and the fact of Jesus' openly stated desire IS today a present reality.

Luke 12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division

And division we have BECAUSE of Jesus. I thank Him for this fact and this I also seek to follow. The early Apostles and proclaimers KNEW both their calling and their enemies far better than we. Rather than to create doctrinal converts, THIS was their goal, and their call:

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God

Division makes much sense when seen in His Light.

enjoy!

squint

 

[darkshadow]

I would agree with the first three, but not the last two. Baptism does nothing to save you, ask the thief. And number five makes salvation works based, not by grace.

Go Cards!

Yes Go Cards!

Your use of the thief on the cross does not work. Baptism is the sybolism of Christ's death, and resurrection, you can not have a symbol of something before it has happened.

 

[darkshadow]

I did not include the "Sinner's Prayer" in the, as been called, "salvation steps". They are not steps at all but commands.

 

[Photini]

I have found the prayer of salvation to be a useful tool in reaching souls for Jesus. It is not some idle exercise or ritual. I have been blessed with the incomparable opportunity to use it in leading souls to make a decision for Jesus. This happens frequently, almost on a weekly basis, both from the podium and one to one. Permit me to illustrate how it has worked in my experience. Here is a representative presentation and conversation using the prayer of salvation. The words are mine, and the response is in parentheses:

1. We say, I am a sinner, I cant do it alone, I need a Savior. Amen? (Person nods head.)

2. And as we think of our sins, of our past, we find ourselves crying to God, O God, I hate those things I have done. I don't want to live that way anymore. I don't want the sins I have committed. I want to go a better way. But Lord, it is so hard! In my heart, I want to go a better way, but I need help. Help me, Lord, to turn from sin! In my heart, O Lord, I choose to turn from it, I renounce it, and I want to go towards heaven! Is that your desire, by God's grace? (Nods head, says, 'Amen!)

3. And Lord, I thank you. I thank you because Jesus died on the cross to pay the price for my sins. Thank-you, Lord, that Jesus died in my place. Thank-you, Lord, that Jesus has set me free from bondage to sin. O Lord, I claim Jesus' death on the cross to pay the price for MY sins. And Lord, I ask for Jesus' perfect life to stand in place of my sinful life, in place of my failures, and I thank you, God, that Jesus DOES stand in my place, thank-you, Lord, that I am complete in Christ, thank-you, Lord, that Jesus is my Substitute, and because of Your grace, Lord, right now I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior, and I ask Jesus to take charge of my life! My brother, is that your prayer, is that your desire, right now? (Yes, it is.)

Praise God! There is rejoicing in heaven! The lost has been found, the prodigal has come home, and Jesus wraps His loving arms around you right now, covering you with His pure white robe, welcoming you as a dearly loved son. You are complete in Him, and now you can rejoice in the hope of the glory of God!

[At this point we pray together, I give the rejoicing soul a hug, and rejoice with him or her.]

The soul who makes that kind of decision has AT THAT MOMENT passed from death into life, and has the peace that passes all understanding. Now, he or she prepares for water baptism, as a testimony to the world that s/he has died to the old life, and that a new life has begun. It is now the sacred responsibility of the gospel worker to nurture this new spiritual life, to stay close, to guide, strengthen, to teach from the Word, to help the spiritual baby to stand and walk on his own and to lead others also to Jesus.

Dave

Dave,

This quite reminds me of how catechumens are received into the EO Church. Prayers are read over the person, driving the devil out, and then the person is asked three times in a row if they renounce Satan, then told to spit on him. After that, they are asked three times if they join Christ and then told to bow and worship Him. It's very powerful. After that, they prepare for baptism...which can follow immediately (usually for children), or after a time of learning the Faith (usually for adults).

You can read the service here: Order Before Holy Baptism