Is Everybody going to heaven?

[icedtea]

This is no UR forum, is it? The truth is here. You are in the right place if you desire the truth.

The truth is in the bible, and it says hell is forever.

 

[Tavita]

The truth is in the bible, and it says hell is forever.

It says hell is age-during (an age has a beginning and end). Jesus said it Himself... in Matt:25v46. He said it was age-during 'chastisement'.

 

[DeborahsSong]

Our point is that if you took a poll around 100 AD literal hell would get few, if any votes. That's because the church still communicated in Greek, the language of the New Testament and people knew that the text has no reference to eternal punishment or torment. Those words were ushered in after the Augustinian error. See my prior posts on Dr. Hanson's research.

 

[Tavita]

Our point is that if you took a poll around 100 AD literal hell would get few, if any votes. That's because the church still communicated in Greek, the language of the New Testament and people knew that the text has no reference to eternal punishment or torment. Those words were ushered in after the Augustinian error. See my prior posts on Dr. Hanson's research.

Yes, and from what I've learned, Augustine didn't know Greek.

 

[icedtea]

What exactly is the translation of the verse Those who take the mark will be tormented day and night forever?
Just curious.
We can read the bible as truth, or twist verses to make it seem otherwise.

 

[Tavita]

What exactly is the translation of the verse Those who take the mark will be tormented day and night forever?
Just curious.
We can read the bible as truth, or twist verses to make it seem otherwise.

From Young's Literal:

Rev 14:11 and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.

Weymouth NT:

(WNT) And the smoke of their torment goes up until the Ages of the Ages; and the worshipers of the Wild Beast and his statue have no rest day or night, nor has any one who receives the mark of his name.

Ages of ages does not mean endless.. or eternity.

There will come a point that there will be no more night and day.

 

[icedtea]

So its the same meaning as when Jesus said he is god and savior etc forever. its only for a time of ages.

 

[Rajni]

Yeah, it's more like this:

Actually, that’s very good imagery!

Here’s more scripture to go with it:

1 Peter 5:6: Therefore, humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, so that at the proper time he may exalt you.

Ecclesiastes 2:24: There is nothing better for a man than to eat and drink and tell himself that his labor is good. This also I have seen that it is from the hand of God.

Job 5:17: Truly, that man is happy who has training from the hand of God: so do not let your heart be shut to the teaching of the Ruler of all.

Ecclesiastes 9:1: For I have taken all this to my heart and explain it that righteous men, wise men, and their deeds are in the hand of God. Man does not know whether it will be love or hatred; anything awaits him.


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[Tavita]

So its the same meaning as when Jesus said he is god and savior etc forever. its only for a time of ages.

When did Jesus say He is God and Savior forever?.. that's beside the point I know...

It's difficult to give a lesson in what the words eternal, eternity and forever, or forever and ever mean in the Greek.

Let's just say that when the word aion is used, it usually means an age, with God it means His quality of Life. So, if you have eternal life.. you have His quality of life which is eternal, because He is not bound by the Ages. When aion is applied to other things it means age-during, an age or time limit.. eg:

The Aaronic Priesthood was described as eternal or perpetual.. but it has finished.
Jonah described being in the whale as 'forever' but he was there only three days (it would seem like forever to him!)
Sodom and Gomorrah were to burn 'forever' but they don't burn now.

I think other's can describe it better than me...

 

[Rajni]

The truth is in the bible, and it says hell is forever.

The word "hell" was not in the original texts. Translators (who are not divinely inspired, btw) do say that "hell" is "forever", yes. But this was not what God had written down originally.

If you are truly interested in learning more about this and haven't gotten too locked into a certain way of seeing things, a great article on this subject is Jesus' Teaching on Hell.





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[Rajni]

So its the same meaning as when Jesus said he is god and savior etc forever. its only for a time of ages.

God is God of the ages, yes. He is also outside of time, so He is infinite.

The duration of aionios (the Greek word which the English words "eternal", "everlasting" and "forever" replace) is determined by the subject to which it refers.

For instance, when aionios ("forever") is in reference to how long Jonah was in the belly of the fish, it meant 3 days.

For slaves, aionios pertained to the duration of their mortal life span.

For Solomon's temple, aionios referred to 400 years.

As it pertains to God, it encompasses and transcends time altogether. He is the God of all the ages as well as any individual one.

The term is relative, the duration of which depends upon that with which it is associated.

For a modern example, when one refers to a "long" hot dog, no one would immediately think of a hot dog as lengthy as a "long" limo. A "large" spider would never be taken to mean a spider the same size as a "large" house. A "long" business meeting does not equal a "long" winter in duration. Both are referred to as "long", yes, but what determines the duration is not the adjective "long", but rather the noun to which the adjective is referring.



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[DeborahsSong]

Icedtea, yes it would be helpful to give us the text you are referring to, so we can check it out in an interlinear for the actual Greek word. I did find in 2 Peter 1:11 a reference to the "everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" KJV. In this particular verse, aionion, is used to modify kingdom, so Young would translate it "age during". Actually, the kingdom of Christ does have an end, according to 1 Cor 15:25-28. He must reign till all enemies are subdued and Christ hands over everything to the Father.

There are Greek words that really do convey the sense of eternity, such as aidios or adialeipton.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Could you show me where in Scripture you see it saying "most will die in unbelief and miss their salvation"? Thanks in advance!
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Only the most well-known Bible verse in the world:

John 3:16
For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

Amplified:
For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.

 

[enoch son]

Ah, so everything I've done is Gods will. Thats shocking.
Even the bad things. Didn't know God made me do them.

You need to restudy the kingdom of darkness and the kingdom of light. You will find that the one setting on the throne is jesus and not oneself.

 

[enoch son]

Know the Word. Know Jesus. Only by knowing Jesus can you know the Word of God correctly.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth.

I don't see tested by trail anywhere in that ver. . You kept adding what is not there.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Yes, we're all quite aware of how you feel about those who don't agree with you, FA. As always, thanks for sharing.
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This has nothing to do with agreeing with me...it is God that is distorted by UR. It is His Word that is disbelieved and rewritten and downright falsified.

This is more than sharing--this is insisting that truth be told.

 

[enoch son]

The bible says Today is the day of salvation. Also many verses (may try and get a bible with concordance at thelibrary) which state at times it is too late.
People who take the mark will never get saved.

Chapter and ver. please?

 

[Floatingaxe]

It says hell is age-during (an age has a beginning and end). Jesus said it Himself... in Matt:25v46. He said it was age-during 'chastisement'.

Twisting scripture to suit one's own ideas is worthy of the wrath of God. Hopefully, He will bring correction before it's too late.

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them. In this way, they will bring sudden destruction on themselves.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Our point is that if you took a poll around 100 AD literal hell would get few, if any votes. That's because the church still communicated in Greek, the language of the New Testament and people knew that the text has no reference to eternal punishment or torment. Those words were ushered in after the Augustinian error. See my prior posts on Dr. Hanson's research.

False. Dr, Hanson is a Johnny-come-lately and full of you-know-what, spiritually speaking!

 

[enoch son]

I don't. Universalists tip toe through the Word of God, ripping out the daisies and trampling on the roses.

I'm not a "universalist" the words not in the book. I preach reconciliation
2 Cor. 5;17-20 I know that the word God uses and it might be over you head but it's what Paul preached.