Physical Healing in the Atonement (PHIA)

[JimfromOhio]

Still dodeging the question?

Let Jim take care of himself. He's a big boy.

Get serious and answer the question.

Getting defensive?

What is the most balanced biblical statement regarding healing?

I believe that God can sovereignly choose to heal whomever and whenever according to His will:
1. The gospel is good news about our sin problem, not our sicknesses (Rom. 3:23; 6:23).
2. Christ’s atonement focuses primarily upon our sins (iniquities), not our sicknesses (Lev. 16:1-34; Is. 53:5-6, 11-12; 1 Pet. 2:24).
3. Christ died for our sins, not our sicknesses (1 Cor. 15:3).
4. Christ was made sin, not sickness (2 Cor. 5:21).
5. Christ forgave our sins, not our sicknesses (1 John 2:12).
6. Christ gave Himself for our sins, not our sickness (Gal. 1:4).
7. Our bodies are corruptible and thus subject to sickness (1 Cor. 15:42-44).
8. We will all die physically (Heb. 9:27).


Healing does happen and at the same time and, if you have not received what has been promised (i.e. healing) before you die. God has planned something BETTER for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect (Heb 11:39-40). There are some faith teachers (mostly on TV) often state that Jesus also died to deliver us from our diseases. Most Christians (who don't follow TV preachers) do not believe that concept.

Any conclusion that physical healing is secured through Christ's death must be derived from other passages. But all other passages regarding Christ's death have to do with deliverance from sin and reconciliation with God. The main thing to understand and remember is that Jesus is OUR SHEPHERD that He will supply all OUR needs (Phil. 4:19) and that He knows everything about OUR LIVES (Ps. 139:3), cares about US (1 Pet. 5:7), has the power for every difficulty (Ps. 62:11), is perfecting US to be like Christ (Phil. 1:6), and that nothing escapes Him (Ps. 147:5), that will lead US to be stable, not anxious living in His GRACE.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Sunlover, I'll try to answer your question..

I dont see what suffering has over being healed.
Why would someone "let themselves" suffer if they
have a choice?

Again why die if God will deliver you from your enemies hands??
David often cried out to God to deliver him from the hand of his enemy.
I dont see what the value is, if you're dead, you're not able to feed
the poor, heal the sick, comfort those who are hurt etc.
Please help me to understand what you mean. (If you choose)

Maybe this article would help

http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/why_catholics_love_suffering.htm

and this:
http://www.fisheaters.com/offeringitup.html

the Catholic Church teaches that the best way to sanctification is by the Cross, we are to rejoice in our sufferings and offer them to the Father in union with Christ's sacrifice, for the good of the Church. We can help people either through feeding the poor, comforting the hurt, etc, or through prayer...and when we offer our suffering to God it's like a prayer for souls too.
That being said, we believe that God heals people too, if it's His will. But if you look at the lives of the Saints, they were not afraid of suffering.

(btw, "redemptive suffering" doesn't mean that it redeems the way Christ's suffering does; we don't believe in earning forgiveness through suffering. This is not for the forgiveness of sins)

hope that helps..

 

[ARBITER01]

Jim and Pinetree, just so you guys know, mister spiritman will not address your questions or change his outlook one bit scripturally. He will do trollish posts that repeat scripture or personal statements, without regard to truth, over and over.

You guys have seen his behavior before out of other folks on here, I felt it was good just to post a reminder.

 

[spiritman]

Here's another that is evidence of God's will to heal. He sent His disciples to do as He did. They were to preach and heal not just preach.

Mr 10:97 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

 

[spiritman]

Jim and Pinetree, just so you guys know, mister spiritman will not address your questions or change his outlook one bit scripturally. He will do trollish posts that repeat scripture or personal statements, without regard to truth, over and over.

You guys have seen his behavior before out of other folks on here, I felt it was good just to post a reminder.

Pr 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

 

[simonthezealot]

Yes, there's healing and wholeness in the atonement, but only as it comes to us in the fullness of salvation, when our bodies are glorified in His eternal Kingdom. Someday He will take away all our sicknesses away, but the healing that took place during His earthly ministry was only a foretaste of that which was spoken by the prophet Isaiah.

 

[Merlin]

Thats a good point,if we are going to stand on the scriptures,then we have to be able to walk on water too..

Also,here is a scripture that never gets quoted in it's fullness,to say the least..

Thats right out of the word of God..

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.

This is a good point to be further investigated.
Why is this not regularly seen?

 

[ARBITER01]

This is a good point to be further investigated.
Why is this not regularly seen?

Because people are in word only and not in power. They talk a good talk, even quote scripture beyond belief, but that does not get anything done if Jesus is not there in power through that person.

His example is ours. His walk was one of obedience, and so is ours.

 

[Merlin]

Because people are in word only and not in power. They talk a good talk, even quote scripture beyond belief, but that does not get anything done if Jesus is not there in power through that person.

So then, are you one who walks on water and raises the dead?
or are you one who "Because people are in word only and not in power. They talk a good talk, even quote scripture beyond belief, but that does not get anything done if Jesus is not there in power through that person."

 

[sunlover1]

Because people are in word only and not in power. They talk a good talk, even quote scripture beyond belief, but that does not get anything done if Jesus is not there in power through that person.

His example is ours. His walk was one of obedience, and so is ours.

Exactly.
People want to 'do' what the disciples could do, but don't want to
have to live the life they had to live.
Does God love and care for us even if we're weak and carnal,
the kids that run to Him only when we have a need?
Sure, but if you live for God, walking in the Spirit, then when
you walk into a problem, that situation should change because
of your presence (God IN you).
When you walk into a room, the spiritual atmosphere should
change... Love, hope, joy etc just entered and strife, jealousy,
gossip, unbelief etc should be uncomfortable.

What do you make of the passage that says you shall tread
on scorpions and serpents and over all of the power of the
enemy? (I think I said that correctly)

sunlover

 

[pinetree]

Jim and Pinetree, just so you guys know, mister spiritman will not address your questions or change his outlook one bit scripturally. He will do trollish posts that repeat scripture or personal statements, without regard to truth, over and over.

You guys have seen his behavior before out of other folks on here, I felt it was good just to post a reminder.

yup..oh well....

to bad,we could have had an interesting chat...

 

[ARBITER01]

So then, are you one who walks on water and raises the dead?
or are you one who "Because people are in word only and not in power. They talk a good talk, even quote scripture beyond belief, but that does not get anything done if Jesus is not there in power through that person."

I can do nothing, nor do I do anything.

But GOD has had me walk on water before, just for a moment. HE hasn't used my prayers to raise the dead yet, but we shall see.

Do you doubt that GOD can do this through one of HIS?

 

[ARBITER01]

yup..oh well....

to bad,we could have had an interesting chat...

Yea, it is trollish type posting from him. It is not debate where truth can flourish, just badgering with scripture that isn't even rightly divided by him.

 

[Seeking Him]

there were many Saints who suffered a lot during their lives, because they accepted suffering as a cross they carried for Christ..

That's so true. Remember what Paul said. We are troubled on every side, persecuted but not forsaken, cast down but not destroyed. We carry the death of Jesus in our bodies, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. It seems a mystery to me, but our sufferings bring out God's life in us! That gives meaning to our suffering, and encouragement. It's an honor to carry the death of Jesus within us, and one day we will be raised with Him.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

That's so true. Remember what Paul said. We are troubled on every side, persecuted but not forsaken, cast down but not destroyed. We carry the death of Jesus in our bodies, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. It seems a mystery to me, but our sufferings bring out God's life in us! That gives meaning to our suffering, and encouragement. It's an honor to carry the death of Jesus within us, and one day we will be raised with Him.

AMEN

 

[Merlin]

Do you doubt that GOD can do this through one of HIS?

no, but it's not common to see.

 

[Seeking Him]

God can be glorified either way.

Here is a quote from Fr. Groeschel’s book “Arise From Darkness” :
“My Redeemer, your Redeemer, has a right to be called that because He suffered with us as well as for us. God could have saved us in some simpler, less terrible way, but He wanted us to know how much He loved us when we are in pain and suffering. Our Creator who is also our Redeemer, will bring joy out of sorrow, hope out of despair, love out of hate, life out of death, eternity out of time. This is our hope. It alone makes sense.

May the Lord Jesus Christ, the poor carpenter of Nazareth, preacher of the roads, the man condemned to death and deprived of earthly things, be our example. May we have a true security based on acceptance of His divine will. May we have eyes to see beyond this world and hearts to cherish that which does not pass away, but which lasts forever.”

 

[spiritman]

Is divine healing an important doctrine that leads people to false hope or understanding God's will whether they are healed or not?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Clarify or rephrase please.


Ps 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.

 

[spiritman]

Yea, it is trollish type posting from him. It is not debate where truth can flourish, just badgering with scripture that isn't even rightly divided by him.

At it again! Can't find anything productive to do except gossip? Should you be talking about me to others in this manner? I haven't seen anyone else do anything like this before.

It seems you have been following me from thread to thread and talking about me.

Have you been assigned to be my little persecutor?

Lu 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

 

[pinetree]

At it again! Can't find anything productive to do except gossip? Should you be talking about me to others in this manner? I haven't seen anyone else do anything like this before.

It seems you have been following me from thread to thread and talking about me.

Have you been assigned to be my little persecutor?

Lu 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

I'm your huckleberry...

you seemed to have avoided my Paul verses like the plaque.