Howdy!
Apollos said - There is no stipulation or requirement within the NEW covenant for Christians to observe any sabbath of any type.
RND said - Agreed!
Then we are having this discussion because you do not know which covenant you want to follow. Specifically, you want to include part of the Old covenant, ei. the sabbath, with following the New covenant.
First Apollos, try quoting my entire reply, that would be very helpful and extremely insightful. I said, "Agreed! No more going to the brazen alter with an animals to pray over, to kill, to drain the blood, wash the internal organs in the laver, take the blood and place it on the horns of the golden alter, etc., etc."
The "new" covenant has no requirement "
to observe any sabbath of any type." This is so true. There is a explicit requirement to observe Go'd seventh-day Sabbath however. Do you see the point that was being made when I said, "Agreed?"
Second, do you understand that we are no longer required to confirm the the covenant with God by "going to the brazen alter with an animals to pray over, to kill, to drain the blood, wash the internal organs in the laver, take the blood and place it on the horns of the golden alter, etc., etc."
The "rules" of life are now entered into the heart of everyone.
Apollos said - One covenant (the old) was given at Sinai to the physical nation of Israel.(Deut 5:2-5).
RND said again - And what constituted "Israel?"
In this context Israel would be a physical descendent of any of the 12 tribes from the sons of Jacob who had been circumcised (if male).
This is the second time you have alluded to What constitutes Israel?
Tell me what you mean and cut out all the word play. More below on this
Well, it's simple and honestly there isn't really any "one play" going on here. It's just basic understanding that is so often overlooked it is surprising. Israel then, just as Israel is now, was not only made up of the "physical" descendants of Abraham but the "spiritual" descendants as well.
No one, outside of those that had taken in the Passover lamb, were allowed into the sanctuary and allowed to partake in the ceremonial rituals of atonement. Same holds true today. No one is allowed into the "Heavenly Sanctuary" until they take in the Passover lamb.
Apollos said - The other covenant (the new) is given/offered to the entire world.
RND said - So was the "old."
LOL ! I guess you think the whole world was at Sinai when Moses came down??
Don't LOL too soon until you understand all the facts.
The "old Covenant" was offered to the Children of Israel, the mixed multitude that came out of Egypt with them, and it was available and open to any sojourner or stranger that wanted to be apart of that covenant.
How will you prove the supposed obligation?
The Bible helps.
Apollos said - I have no more obligation to follow the requirements of an OLD covenant today than I have to pay money on the mortgage for the last house I lived in.
RND replied - Really? Does that mean you can engage in homosexuality with other men and not have it called by it's proper name....sin?
This is a misapplied argument. First you need to decide which covenant to keep then you can determine from that covenant what is proper to do and not do.
Misapplied? Have you ever considered the "rules" of the "New" Covenant are harder to uphold than the rules of the "old." See Matthew 5, 6 and 7.
I have NEVER had obligation to the OLD covenant made with the nation of Israel, which included the 10-C, however positive it may be viewed by you or anyone.
Agreed. However, how then do you enter into the "Heavenly Sanctuary" now?
I have every obligation to the NEW covenant ratified by the blood of Jesus Christ and based upon faith in Jesus Christ. This NEW covenant has the efficacy to save all men everywhere today the Old did not!
If I were you I'd read the "faith" Hall of Fame in Hebrews 11 and tell me if there is anyone that has been saved by keeping the old covenant. the law has never saved anyone and the law doesn't save anyone now. Righteousness has always been by faith. That doesn't change the law. It doesn't the way faith is viewed.
The NEW covenant condemns homosexuality (as well as heterosexuality outside of marriage) as well as a number of other sins see 1 Corinthians 6:9ff and Galatians 5:19ff .
The "new" covenant doen't say that I can't marry my sister or my dog like the "old" did. Does that mean I'm free to marry my sister or my dog?
The NEW covenant also has a number of precepts and commands for Christians today not found in the OLD covenant made with Israel.
Really? Name them.
It sounds as if you are trying to "have you cake and eat it to" theology. Throw out the stuff I don't like and accept the things I do.
All of this matter is as simple as knowing which covenant to follow. 2 Cor 3:6.
Paul made this same argument. Gal. 1:6, Col. 2:13-14.
Why put yourself under a yoke of bondage? Galatians 5:1-4
If you follow one point, you must follow ALL points. James 2:10, Gal. 5:3.
The 4th commandment is a part of the OLD covenant, not the NEW!
- - - - - - - - - -[/quote]
Do you understand the difference between what "law" was being spoken of? Look, the 10 Commandments is a mirror that points out sin. It tells us the nature and character of God. It was kept "inside" the Ark. The "law," the Mosaic, ceremonial law, was a way to point the sinner to the salvation offered by God through grace - righteousness by faith and it was kept on the "outside" of the Ark.
Do the distinction of inside/outside mean anything at all to you?
Apollos said [Your] response did not answer my question did it? >>>Why would Christians be required to keep a day of rest that was given to Israel?
RND said - Because "Christians" are actual adopted members of the tribe of Israel headed by a King of King and Lord or Lord's named Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Christ is also the head of the church Eph. 1:22, Col. 1:18. But there is not one passage to support your idea that Christians are adopted into the physical tribe of Israel and required to follow the parts and pieces of the Old covenant that you want them to follow today.
Be serious.
Jhn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
The entire Bible is a metaphor for how those that join themselves to the nation of Israel and it's King (Jesus) are redeemed. Salvation is never offered to anyone except the nation of Israel. There are just too many verses and cites to name here but suffice to say this. The promised "seed" that was to come through Abraham is Jesus. All that accept that simply promise become "adopted" sons of Abraham. See Romans 4, Ephesians 2 and Galatians 3.
