Who really cares what the ECF's had to say?

[simonthezealot]

The ECFs said what was 'right' based on what was always taught.

Then why the back and forth on images for example?

 

[Anglian]

Dear Beamishboy,

Before Montalban points it out, I'd better mention that since the 1932 Statute of Westminster, Australia has not been a colony, but a self-governing Dominion, which, since 1948, has been connected with the UK only via the Commonwealth and the Crown.

Australian citizens no longer accept British peerages, but would, I am sure, be as courteous to a British peer as they are to all visitors to their beautiful country; they are not, however, hot on deference.

Peace,

Anglian

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Anglian Again, we see the wisdom of the Church in insisting on resting on more than one pillar.

We are yet still "babes" in JESUS.

Matt 21:16 And say to Him "thou are hearing what these are saying"? The yet Jesus is saying to them "yea, not-ever did ye read that 'out of mouths of babes and of sucklings/qhlazontwn <2337> (5723) thou according-equip praise'" [Psalm 8:2]

Psalm 8:2 From mouths of unweaned-ones and being sucklings thou founded strength on account of ones being foes of thee to cause to cease of one being enemy and avenging.

Matt 24:19 "Woe yet to those in belly having and to those suckling/qhlazousaiV <2337> (5723) in those the days! 20 "Be ye praying yet that no may be becoming the flight of ye of winter neither a Sabbath.

 

[Anglian]

Then why the back and forth on images for example?

Dear Simon,

because Holy Tradition does not dictate infallible conclusions, but follows the line of discussions between Christians. It is worth noting that the rise of the Iconoclast controversy comes with the rise of Islam; the Muslims, like most puritans, got very hot under the collar about the worship of images - as they saw it. St. John Damascene's argument that veneration was not worship, might be a familiar one from other contexts, as might his argument that in venerating an icon, he was venerating the Incarnate Word. Since God had been Incarnate in the form of a man, it was permissible to make such images.

So, yes, of course, there were lots of fierce arguments, but the Church decided, through one of its Councils, that the iconodules had the right of it - based upon a reading of Holy Tradition which was accepted as more authoritative than the other view.

As we keep telling you, the Orthodoxy aren't hot on infallibility - it is why we have no equivalent to the Pope of a Magisterium.

peace,

Anglian

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

As we keep telling you, the Orthodoxy aren't hot on infallibility - it is why we have no equivalent to the Pope of a Magisterium.

peace,

Anglian

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6831283&page=56
How different would Christianity be without the Pope

 

[simonthezealot]

Did any of the ECFs mention the writings of Josephus?

,

Martyr as well...
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.viii.xxxii.html

 

[beamishboy]

Dear Beamishboy,

Before Montalban points it out, I'd better mention that since the 1932 Statute of Westminster, Australia has not been a colony, but a self-governing Dominion, which, since 1948, has been connected with the UK only via the Commonwealth and the Crown.

Australian citizens no longer accept British peerages, but would, I am sure, be as courteous to a British peer as they are to all visitors to their beautiful country; they are not, however, hot on deference.

Peace,

Anglian

A self-governing Dominion whose Head is still our Queen? I heard they sing God Save The Queen too! And it's only recently that they voted to have their own national anthem - something like that. If they sing our anthem, they probably sing the words "Long to reign over us" too. Hehehe.

How can Aussies stomach all that? They don't do that in India (a former colony) or in many other former colonies. I thought I read that the Aussie Parliament needs the Queen (or her rep) to open it or something like that. If Britain decides to be nasty, they'll have no Parliament. That's something I can't understand but I've lots of things to learn still.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6831283&page=56
How different would Christianity be without the Pope

What the heck LOL....

OP has requested that the thread be closed.

 

[Anglian]

A self-governing Dominion whose Head is still our Queen? I heard they sing God Save The Queen too! And it's only recently that they voted to have their own national anthem - something like that. If they sing our anthem, they probably sing the words "Long to reign over us" too. Hehehe.

How can Aussies stomach all that? They don't do that in India (a former colony) or in many other former colonies. I thought I read that the Aussie Parliament needs the Queen (or her rep) to open it or something like that. If Britain decides to be nasty, they'll have no Parliament. That's something I can't understand but I've lots of things to learn still.

Dear Beamishboy,

Many Australians stomach this situation with extreme difficulty, and in a referendum a few years ago, only narrowly voted to keep the Queen as their head of state. The new Rudd government may well bring this question forward again, and the result may well be an ending of this anomalous situation.

The decision of the UK to enter the European Union and to effectively turn its back on those Dominions which had supported it loyally during two world wars, created a lot of ill feeling in those Dominions, so if we lose their loyalty, it is our own foolish fault.

Peace,

Anglian

 

[Rick Otto]

Hold on Simon runs down the block to Ottos house to get him and have him translate this into laymens terms....

Tradition changes but the mind of Christ & scripture don't.
Doing the math on one hand I can see something doesn't add up.

 

[Anglian]

Tradition changes but the mind of Christ & scripture don't.
Doing the math on one hand I can see something doesn't add up.

Ah, the Western love of math!

God is not to be fully apprehended by our minds, and as the Church encounters fresh understandings of the Godhead (for example, explaining the Trinity as we do in the Creed) it discusses them, and if they are accepted over time, it incorporates them into its teachings.

What else would you expect when you have an Infallible and Ineffable Creator and a fallible and feeble creature?

Peace,

Anglian

 

[Thekla]

I might also add -per the icon issue - that the LXX reads idolon not eikon.

I understand that there are questions as to whether the LXX s considered as "inspired",but per the discussion here, it should be noted that the LXX just translates Hebraic concepts into Greek. The translation, I have read, is plainly literal. In this sense, and to those communities who accepted the LXX from proximal Jewish communities, it is not just any image, but those used as idols - any other gods worshipped in the place of the one true God. As the worship of these gods typically involved idols, the prohibition is in place, but did not apply to the Temple decorations.

At least some Jewish communities understood the prohibition in this manner - as the findings at Deuro Euroa (???) attest - the Synagogue with OT scenes on it walls.

 

[Thekla]

double

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I might also add -per the icon issue - that the LXX reads idolon not eikon.

I understand that there are questions as to whether the LXX s considered as "inspired",but per the discussion here, it should be noted that the LXX just translates Hebraic concepts into Greek. The translation, I have read, is plainly literal. In this sense, and to those communities who accepted the LXX from proximal Jewish communities, it is not just any image, but those used as idols - any other gods worshipped in the place of the one true God. As the worship of these gods typically involved idols, the prohibition is in place, but did not apply to the Temple decorations.

At least some Jewish communities understood the prohibition in this manner - as the findings at Deuro Euroa (???) attest - the Synagogue with OT scenes on it walls.

Unfortunatley, the Orthodox Jews do not read the book of Revelation

Luke 21:5 And certain saying about the Temple that to stones goodly and devoted things it hath been adorned/ke-kosmhtai <2885>, He said, 6 "These which ye are beholding-- there shall be coming days in which not shall be being left stone upon stone which not shall be being accoding-loosed",

Reve 21:2 And the City, the holy, Jerusalem, New, I perceived descending out of the heaven from the God, having been made ready as bride having been adorned/worlded/ke-kosmhmenhn <2885> (5772) to the man of her.

 

[beamishboy]

Dear Beamishboy,

Many Australians stomach this situation with extreme difficulty, and in a referendum a few years ago, only narrowly voted to keep the Queen as their head of state. The new Rudd government may well bring this question forward again, and the result may well be an ending of this anomalous situation.

The decision of the UK to enter the European Union and to effectively turn its back on those Dominions which had supported it loyally during two world wars, created a lot of ill feeling in those Dominions, so if we lose their loyalty, it is our own foolish fault.

Peace,

Anglian

So Montalban was wrong and I'm right. Hehe.

 

[beamishboy]

Nope you attempt to charge me with cherry picking because you're reading the full context with a presupposition to disagree with me.

Your lack of respect has came in a number of manners the one obvious one was the post that questioned MY faith.

BTW as soon as you asked ME not to shorten your name I obliged. Sorry if I offended.

As to me not responding to any posts of yours or me taking a week...Take a look through this thread Montalban you have 200+ posts I am sure I have missed a number of questions...

Make NO mistake about it when you're painting a picture of me as one who is afraid to respond to questions tough or not is to deny my history here at CF, ask any number of the people I deal most with that have diametrically opposite views; MrPolo, Jackthecatholic, Joab, Lionroar, kristos, ask any of them. I do NOT dodge!

Hi Simon,

Don't worry about him. Montalban is in the habit of saying people have ignored his questions. Ask him to repeat his questions and I assure you, he probably won't bother. He did that many times to this your novice. And I was at my wit's end as to what questions he asked.

Everyone knows you've debated with the most fearsome gladiators and won. I've read your and saved your formal debates. Montalban? You probably have him for breakfast, with space to spare for more. Hehe.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi Simon,

Don't worry about him. Montalban is in the habit of saying people have ignored his questions. Ask him to repeat his questions and I assure you, he probably won't bother. He did that many times to this your novice. And I was at my wit's end as to what questions he asked.

Everyone knows you've debated with the most fearsome gladiators and won. I've read your and saved your formal debates. Montalban? You probably have him for breakfast, with space to spare for more. Hehe.

 

[Philothei]

Since this thread is an "all topic" thread including the Queen


I heard that she is the head of the Church? is that right?
.....Is Elizabeth I an ECM, an early Christian Mother?This is to those of the Brittish descent...
Hey LLOJ I miss your troll avatar.....!!!!! Bring him back....

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Since this thread is an "all topic" thread including the Queen


I heard that she is the head of the Church? is that right?
.....Is Elizabeth I an ECM, an early Christian Mother?This is to those of the Brittish descent...

Revelation 18:7 As much as glorifies herself, and indulges be giving to her tormenting and mourning that in her heart she is saying 'I am sitting a Queen and Widow not I am and mourning not I shall be seeing'.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hey LLOJ I miss your troll avatar.....!!!!! Bring him back....

Are you implying I am a "troll"