Who really cares what the ECF's had to say?

[LittleLambofJesus]

We respect the simple peasant girl who risked her reputation to bear the Life of the World in her womb, and whom the Spirit called 'blessed'; we respect the mother who stood by obedient to the will of God even as her son died upon the Cross and who uttered no reproach. We respect her, we call her 'blessed'; which of these things causes you a problem?

Peace,

Anglian

Doesn't cause a problem for me, I just do not focus on her or the pope for that matter, so does that cause a problem for you and the Catholics.

 

[Anglian]

Doesn't cause a problem for me, I just do not focus on her, so does that cause a problem for you and the Catholics.

Dear LLOJ,

Not in the slightest. It is poor Beamishboy who seems to have problems with calling her 'blessed'; although, to judge by the number of things he mentions which are relevant only in discussion with Roman Catholics, my diagnosis would be it is part of his Roman fever; those low lying Pontine marshes, I daresay (though I thought they had been drained).

We follow the 'plain word of Scripture, Ma'am' and call her 'blessed'. What do you do?

Peace,

Anglian

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We follow the 'plain word of Scripture, Ma'am' and call her 'blessed'. What do you do?

Peace,

Anglian

Greetings. I do not focus on her. My focus is on the Great Consummation in Revelation.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7164949&page=2
DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City

Matt 24:30 "Then shall be appearing the sign of the Son of the Man in heaven, and then shall be wailing/koyontai <2875> (5695), all the Tribes of the land and they will shall be seeing the Son of the Man coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and glory, much. [Revelation 1:7]

Reve 18:9 and shall be lamenting and shall be wailing/koyontai <2875> (5695) over Her the kings of the land, the ones with her fornicating and indulging, whenever they may be observing the smoke of the fireing/purwsei <4451> of Her

 

[bbbbbbb]

BeamishBoy -

Just want you to know that BBBBBBB here is actually Beamish to the seventh power, but not a boy. HeHe.

I am pleased to read your happy (blessed) postings and wish you continued happiness (blessings).

I also found the Howdy greeting a bit jolting, but upon reflection like it better than the German translation, "Heil Mariam!" as in "Heil Hitler." I wonder what would have happened in Germany in the 1930's if folks went around greeting each other with, "Howdy, Hitler."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

BeamishBoy -

Just want you to know that BBBBBBB here is actually Beamish to the seventh power, but not a boy. HeHe.

I am pleased to read your happy (blessed) postings and wish you continued happiness (blessings).

I also found the Howdy greeting a bit jolting, but upon reflection like it better than the German translation, "Heil Mariam!" as in "Heil Hitler." I wonder what would have happened in Germany in the 1930's if folks went around greeting each other with, "Howdy, Hitler."

Where did the German word for "sieg" come from for the "sieg heil"?

Matthew 27:29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail/caire <5463> (5720), King of the Jews!

German Elber) Matthew 27:29 Und sie flochten eine Krone aus Dornen und setzten sie auf sein Haupt, und gaben ihm ein Rohr in seine Rechte; und sie fielen vor ihm auf die Knie und verspotteten ihn und sagten: Sei gegrüßt, König der Juden!

German Luther 1912) Matthew 27:29 und flochten eine Dornenkrone und setzten sie auf sein Haupt und ein Rohr in seine rechte Hand und beugten die Kniee vor ihm und verspotteten ihn und sprachen: Gegrüßet seist du, der Juden König!

 

[Thekla]

Hi Thekla. Did you get a chance to look over this thread I put up on the TAW board concerning that greek word used for "clement"?

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7265052&page=4
The Greek word for Clement in Phil 4:3

Phili 4:3 Yea I am asking also thee together-yoke! genuine! be thou helping them who-any in the Well-Message together-complete to-me with also/and clement/klhmentoV <2815> and of the rests together-workers of me of whom the names in scroll of life.

hi, LLoJ --

I did, thanks; I think its just a name. For example, we have a son named Athanasios. It literally means not-death, translated to English immortal. But we don't consider our child immortal (actually he is named for St. Athanasios and its a name that occurs in my family). Also common Greek names: Makarios (as in blessed, discussed here), Irini (peace) etc. The meanings of English names are not so apparent to us, as we don't think of them as other than names, like I don't think of "immortal" in connection with my son (though I do think "immortal" when we use the word athanatos in Liturgy).

hope that explains at least my thoughts on the matter

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

hi, LLoJ --

I did, thanks; I think its just a name. For example, we have a son named Athanasios. It literally means not-death, translated to English immortal. But we don't consider our child immortal (actually he is named for St. Athanasios and its a name that occurs in my family). Also common Greek names: Makarios (as in blessed, discussed here), Irini (peace) etc. The meanings of English names are not so apparent to us, as we don't think of them as other than names, like I don't think of "immortal" in connection with my son (though I do think "immortal" when we use the word athanatos in Liturgy).

hope that explains at least my thoughts on the matter

I guess that depends on the definition of "immortal".
What about us being as "gods"

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Psalm 82:5 Not they know, and not they are understanding. In darkness they are going about, all of foundations of land are slipping. 6 I, I said gods/'Elohiym ye and sons of the Highest/'elyown all of ye';
7 Surely as adam ye shall die! And as one of the princes, ye shall fall!
8 Arise thou god/Elohiym! judge thou the land!, that Thou shall allot in all the nations. [John 10:34-36]

John 10:33 Answered to Him the Judeans--"About an ideal work not we are stoning Thee; but about blasphemy,--and that Thou a man being, art making thyself a god.
34 Answered to them the JESUS-"Is Not it is having been Written in the law of ye that I say 'I said gods ye are'? 35 If those He said gods toward whom the Word of the God became and not is able to be broken/annulled the Writing 36 whom the Father hallows and commissions into the World ye are saying that 'Thou are blaspheming' that I said 'Son of the God I am'"

 

[Thekla]

I guess that depends on the definition of "immortal".
What about us being as "gods"

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Psalm 82:5 Not they know, and not they are understanding. In darkness they are going about, all of foundations of land are slipping. 6 I, I said gods/'Elohiym ye and sons of the Highest/'elyown all of ye';
7 Surely as adam ye shall die! And as one of the princes, ye shall fall!
8 Arise thou god/Elohiym! judge thou the land!, that Thou shall allot in all the nations. [John 10:34-36]

John 10:33 Answered to Him the Judeans--"About an ideal work not we are stoning Thee; but about blasphemy,--and that Thou a man being, art making thyself a god.
34 Answered to them the JESUS-"Is Not it is having been Written in the law of ye that I say 'I said gods ye are'? 35 If those He said gods toward whom the Word of the God became and not is able to be broken/annulled the Writing 36 whom the Father hallows and commissions into the World ye are saying that 'Thou are blaspheming' that I said 'Son of the God I am'"

meaning not immortal by nature, but by grace

(I hope there are no game systems where he's 'going' )

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

meaning not immortal by nature, but by grace

(I hope there are no game systems where he's 'going' )

If there are, I hope they have Starcraft

Exodus 7:1 And YWHW is saying unto Mosheh, `See!, I give thee as Elohiym to Par`oh, and 'Aharown thy brother shall be thy prophet;

Mark 14:53 And they led away the Jesus toward the Chief-priest, and are coming together to Him all the chief-priests, and the elders, and the scribes;

John 10:33 Answered to Him the Judeans--"About an ideal work not we are stoning Thee; but about blasphemy,--and that Thou a man being, art making thyself a god.

 

[beamishboy]

BeamishBoy -

Just want you to know that BBBBBBB here is actually Beamish to the seventh power, but not a boy. HeHe.

I am pleased to read your happy (blessed) postings and wish you continued happiness (blessings).

I also found the Howdy greeting a bit jolting, but upon reflection like it better than the German translation, "Heil Mariam!" as in "Heil Hitler." I wonder what would have happened in Germany in the 1930's if folks went around greeting each other with, "Howdy, Hitler."

Thanks bbbbbbb! Goodness! Everyone is calling me "blessed".

Santa beamishboy chuckles as he rides his white stallion home to his Castle of Truth.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Thanks bbbbbbb! Goodness! Everyone is calling me "blessed".

Santa beamishboy chuckles as he rides his white stallion home to his Castle of Truth.

Is the Gate to yer Castle wide or narrow?

Matt 7:13 Enter ye thru the cramped Gate, that broad the Gate and spacious the Way the one leading into the Destruction, and many are the ones entering thru Her. 14 that cramped the Gate and having been constricted the Way, the one leading into the Life and few are the ones finding Her.

Revelation 22:14 Happy the ones rinsing the robes of them, that it shall be the authority of them on the Wood of the Life and to the Gates they may be entering into the City.

 

[Philothei]

ya know what I think given your insistance on calling Mary "happy" instead of blessed... then can we assume she was "everhappy" that still makes her 'specia' though... Who can claim of being the "everhappy" today?

 

[beamishboy]

There are a few simple truths one must learn to get rid of the incorrect argument forced into our heads by some people.

One, "all generations will call me blessed" is not a command to call her blessed. I have already shown that it's synonymous with "all generations will say I'm happy".

Two, Mary is not in the position to command anything even if any command of hers was recorded in the NT which it was not.

The only command came from our Lord to remember the story of Mary - not his mother but the other more colourful Mary who seems to get more limelight than his mother. We are to remember her breaking a bottle of perfume on Jesus and who wiped his feet with her hair. Jesus says where the gospel is preached this story is to be told. Did Jesus say we must call his mother happy? Not at all. He corrected the woman in the crowd who did just that, remember?

What is wrong with focussing on Mary or calling her blessed? History shows us that we humans want more than that. It's not so simple. It's not a matter of just calling her blessed. It leads to many pitfalls including, I believe, grievous sin. It leads men to pray to her, make idols and icons of her, carry her idol in processions, kneel to her idol, lie prostrate before her idol, bow to her idol. It leads men to come up with strange doctrines that threatens the uniqueness of Christ's sacrificial death on the cross; it makes her a competitor for that great sacrifice. She becomes a co-redeemer with Christ. Worse, some even go so far as to put her on a cross which is called a Redemptrix Cross.

The danger is she has, in some circles, displaced Jesus. That's how weak we are as humans. Like the ancient Jews, it's so easy for us to turn to other gods. Look what happened when Moses went up the mountain. The people made gods for themselves immediately.

So, Anglian, when you say what's wrong with calling her blessed, you're over-simplifying the problem.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

ya know what I think given your insistance on calling Mary "happy" instead of blessed... then can we assume she was "everhappy" that still makes her 'specia' though... Who can claim of being the "everhappy" today?

Well, YHWH could have always created JESUS out of the dust like He did with the Adam. Here is all my bro "saul/paul" mentions about her:

Gala 4:4 When yet came the filling of the time, sends forth out, the God, the Son of Him, becoming/genomenon <1096> out of woman becoming/genomenon <1096> under law.

 

[simonthezealot]

Who can claim of being the "everhappy" today?

I can!
I joy in even the suffering of this world, for Christs sake.
My prayer was answered, He is my all in all...Even in my greatest times of tribulation HIS grace is more than enough...

 

[beamishboy]

ya know what I think given your insistance on calling Mary "happy" instead of blessed... then can we assume she was "everhappy" that still makes her 'specia' though... Who can claim of being the "everhappy" today?

Why is there this compelling need to make her special? What in the Bible makes you so crazy about her? There's more in the NT about any one of the Apostles a million times over than Mary. Why not carry Paul's idol all over town and say our Hail Pauls, our prayer for the consecration of the sacred heart of Paul, etc etc?

Now, I'm not advocating deifying Paul. I just hope to show how silly people's obsession with Mary really is. It's natural. It answers our need for a softer image when we pray. The Judeo-Christian culture is to patristic and masculine. Some of us long for a goddess figure but we dare not say it because it's anathema in this Judeo-Christian culture. That's how the devotion to Mary came about.

 

[Anglian]

There are a few simple truths one must learn to get rid of the incorrect argument forced into our heads by some people.

The simplest of which is that you have not shown that Our Lord anywhere rescinds what the Spirit says through St. Elizabeth about St. Mary. Indeed, you refuse to address this point - or any of those made in my last post.

Two, Mary is not in the position to command anything even if any command of hers was recorded in the NT which it was not.

The second simple truth is do not misrepresent what others write. Where have I, or any Orthodox Christian here suggested otherwise?

What is wrong with focussing on Mary or calling her blessed? History shows us that we humans want more than that.

The third simple truth is don't generalise. The Orthodox Church venerates the Blessed Theotokos, and your own Archbishop joins us in that. Either show where Orthodox teaching is at fault, or confine this generalisation to parts of your own Church and the Roman Church with which you seem to be obsessed.

So, Anglian, when you say what's wrong with calling her blessed, you're over-simplifying the problem.

Some err in one direction, even as you do in the other; being sinful, I shall leave you to cast the first stone.

Peace,

Anglian

 

[beamishboy]

I can!
I joy in even the suffering of this world, for Christs sake.
My prayer was answered, He is my all in all...Even in my greatest times of tribulation HIS grace is more than enough...

Amen!!! Thus speaks a true Christian Saint.

The beamishboy is happy/blessed to be a novice to Santa Simonthezealot.

 

[Anglian]

Amen!!! Thus speaks a true Christian Saint.

The beamishboy is happy/blessed to be a novice to Santa Simonthezealot.

Do you venerate him?

Peace,

Anglian

 

[beamishboy]

[/size]

Some err in one direction, even as you do in the other; being sinful, I shall leave you to cast the first stone.

Anglian

It's interesting that when there is a serious error in deifying a human being, you become coy and talk about being a sinner and you can't cast the first stone. But when you perceive an assumed error (ie you think it's an error when in reality it's not) in a Protestant, you are quick to point it out. Is there something in Orthodox churches that teaches you to give special obeisance to RCs and to oppose Protestants?

The beamishboy stands ready to do battle. His hand rests on the handle of his sword and his stallion snorts ferociously.