My Embedded Age Challenge

[AV1611VET]

I speak this man into existence ex nihilo on 11 Jul 08 with a note in his pocket saying I spoke this man into existence ex nihilo on 11 Jul 08.

Show this to be an act of deception, and show the intent to deceive, without being wrong.
​

 

[MrGoodBytes]

You have created a one-day old human being with the body (and, presumably, mind) of a septuagenerian - a case of divine progeria, if you will. I don't see any deception as long as the note is preserved.

 

[Patashu]

Does he have a complete memory of a childhood and of events that never happened and that he never actually experienced?

 

[Psudopod]

I can't answer this without adding to your challenge, so I suspect you will just dismiss my answer.

Anyway.

If you create this man with no memories, and a body that showed no evidence of disease, or accident, so their was no history to it, then there is no deception and no intent to decieve that I can see.

If you create this man with 60 years of memories, an apendictomy scar, a trick need and the memories of the account that caused it etc, then I would say you are being deceptive, certainly to that man. You have made him believe he is 60 years old, and given him evidence he cannot refuse. He is either 60 years old or he is 1 minute old with 60 years of fake history.

Now, I assume this is in relation to the embedded age of the earth idea. If you tell me you created the man as per senario 1, I would agree that you personally are not being deceptive. However, I will agree that this is analogous to the earth. The earth is (if it was created ex-nihilo 6100 years ago) was created as per senario 2.

 

[AV1611VET]

Does he have a complete memory of a childhood and of events that never happened and that he never actually experienced?

Either/or --- it doesn't matter in this thread.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't see any deception...

...then there is no deception and no intent to deceive that I can see.

Please respect the OP as I wrote it. If you can't show deception and intent to deceive, without being wrong, then please don't clutter up this thread with non sequitur responses --- thanks.

 

[TheManeki]

Does he have a complete memory of a childhood and of events that never happened and that he never actually experienced?

Wouldn't creating false memories make the creator a liar?

 

[AV1611VET]

Wouldn't creating false memories make the creator a liar?

Wouldn't answering the OP be nice?

 

[TheManeki]

Wouldn't answering the OP be nice?

Think of my question as a golden opportunity for you to flesh out your scenario a little more fully.

 

[Psudopod]

It's impossible to do so with what you have written. If you don't want to have a discussion that's related to the crevo debate, then don't clutter up the board with pointless threads.

What you are asking is like asking someone to demonstrate evolution without using any animals.

 

[Pesto]

Does this man have a belly button?

 

[Patashu]

Wouldn't creating false memories make the creator a liar?

That's why I'm asking.

 

[Tomk80]

Yay, another thread where AV ignores important questions, thus wholly evading the actual argument.

So, anything new here?

 

[AV1611VET]

Yay, another thread where AV ignores important questions, thus wholly evading the actual argument.

So, anything new here?

QV Post 5, which Pesto apparently didn't see.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Wouldn't creating false memories make the creator a liar?

perhaps... but then... wouldn't assuming what the man would or wouldn't remember be presumptuous? (devils advocate.)

Yay, another thread where AV ignores important questions, thus wholly evading the actual argument.

So, anything new here?

There isn't anything new on the boards at all, from what I've seen!

 

[AV1611VET]

There isn't anything new on the boards at all, from what I've seen!

Once in awhile you'll see someone actually answer a question or address an OP as it was written without playing dumb first.

 

[Psudopod]

Once in awhile you'll see someone actually answer a question or address an OP as it was written without playing dumb first.

Can't speak for anyone else but I'm not "playing dumb". I meant everything I said. I know the answer you're fishing for, and I'm not to give it to you. I answered your couple of line op as best I could. Maybe you could address my post without acusing me of trying to pull a fast one?

 

[AV1611VET]

Can't speak for anyone else but I'm not "playing dumb". I meant everything I said. I know the answer you're fishing for, and I'm not to give it to you. I answered your couple of line op as best I could. Maybe you could address my post without acusing me of trying to pull a fast one?

Do you see, Psudopod, how I wish that if people who don't have an answer, or want to respond with questions, would just not respond at all?

Why turn a simple question into 90 pages of rhetoric?

 

[coyoteBR]

I speak this man into existence ex nihilo on 11 Jul 08 with a note in his pocket saying I spoke this man into existence ex nihilo on 11 Jul 08.

You created a man with pockets, or created clothes ex nihilo, too?

Show this to be an act of deception, and show the intent to deceive, without being wrong.
​

Like some said, that question can't be answered without knowing if the man has memories of a past, if has body marks of operations, accidents. I am not even sure he can understand the note you gave him - he can read, or not?

Even without answering this, a certain intention to deceive can be understood, as this man interacts with other people: they would see a 70 y.o man, and expect him to have memories, experience, hisory, relationships and family that follow such age; your man would have none of these. It could be considered at least misleading to the other people.

 

[AV1611VET]

Like some said, that question can't be answered without knowing if the man has memories of a past...

Okay --- sorry --- no offense, but I stopped right here. Please go back and read Post 5. I'm not interested in what you guys can't do. I get plenty of that in my other challenges. I'm more interested in what you guys can do. If you can't answer my OP, please feel free to just lurk.