Gays and Lesbians (GLBT) versus Christians

[sidhe]

Heterosexual is a recent word on the world stage. It defines sexuality. Otherwise it was just considered normality for all of the other history.

Proof or retract. I'm at home and thus away from my mass of research tools, but give me the etymology and evolution of the word.

The G and the L and B all denote sexual proclivity.

They all denote sexual orientation, not proclivity.

"You keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." - Inigo Montoya

The missionary position was taught to induce a more human way of "making love." In the tribal people that missioanries encountered, the men only procreated in one position, leaving the woman little more than just bearing the time interval from start to finish of the man. The Christians were trying to introduce enjoyment, joy and fulfillment to married couples. Even in pagan peoples. Many missionaries were from England. Now, I think it is Korea that has more missionaries out in the world evanglizing than any other counrty.

That...was...huh? No, from what I understand, tribal people favor the rear-entry positions (actually the best and most natural as far as anatomy goes), and the missionaries objected to the association with how animals mate.

In other words - Post proof or retract. Failure to post proof - as in, peer-reviewed sociological/historical papers - will result in this being assessed to you making things up.

BTW - we pagans have way more enjoyment, fun, and fulfillment in our sex lives than you can envision.

 

[cantata]

Interestingly, you can make an argument that missionary position is a good one for us humans, because sex is an unusually communicative act for us. We have sex for fun, and our crazy-ass fertility cycle means that pregnancies are naturally spaced but our sex drive remains all the time. That's probably evolutionarily advantageous because it cements our relationships - we stay together longer to raise our offspring. So sex is evolutionarily "supposed" to be an emotional affair, and facing each other is the way we usually communicate. Desmond Morris argued along these lines.

Luckily, we can rise above our animal instincts, and do it from all sorts of interesting angles When you *know* your partner cares about you, you don't need to stare constantly into their eyes to reaffirm it, especially when they're hitting just the right spot...

 

[sidhe]

Interestingly, you can make an argument that missionary position is a good one for us humans, because sex is an unusually communicative act for us. We have sex for fun, and our crazy-ass fertility cycle means that pregnancies are naturally spaced but our sex drive remains all the time. That's probably evolutionarily advantageous because it cements our relationships - we stay together longer to raise our offspring. So sex is evolutionarily "supposed" to be an emotional affair, and facing each other is the way we usually communicate. Desmond Morris argued along these lines.

Luckily, we can rise above our animal instincts, and do it from all sorts of interesting angles When you *know* your partner cares about you, you don't need to stare constantly into their eyes to reaffirm it, especially when they're hitting just the right spot...

People who require eye contact are strange, especially to prove intimacy. If you're penetrating someone/being penetrated, and you don't feel a sense of intimacy...you have issues.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

This is why so many of us here refer to you in a negative way. Homosexuals, transexuals, pansexuals, omnisexuals, etc ARE Christians. Just because YOU (bow to God Poly ) say they aren't doesn't make it so.. Many Christian churches out there would say YOU aren't a Christian. Does that exclude you from Christianity?

Aaaaaannnnnnnddddd how would they prove it?

By using the Bible unaltered. Just as Christians "in the Bible" rejected their memberships in all of the clubs you listed.

Please show their cause? Please prove the Christians accusing me using the New Testament? Use ANY translation you wish.

And why are there so many GLBT's et al, at a place called Christian Forums? Most of you go out of your way to say you are non and anti-Christian?

Recruitment maybe? Or just good ol' Sodom-like inhospitality? Quite haughty most of the positions offered I may add.

 

[wanderingone]

Again... even if there were ONLY Christians on this forum that would not eliminate encountering people who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender.
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When all else fails question why someone is visiting the forum... this forum is not limited to Christians, nor to a specific type of Christian.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Proof or retract. I'm at home and thus away from my mass of research tools, but give me the etymology and evolution of the word.

My use of the word is accurate. Look it up.

They all denote sexual orientation, not proclivity.

You can try to water down the GLBT thing, but it still ends up sex.

That...was...huh? No, from what I understand, tribal people favor the rear-entry positions (actually the best and most natural as far as anatomy goes), and the missionaries objected to the association with how animals mate.

In other words - Post proof or retract. Failure to post proof - as in, peer-reviewed sociological/historical papers - will result in this being assessed to you making things up.

BTW - we pagans have way more enjoyment, fun, and fulfillment in our sex lives than you can envision.

Until the STD, rejection or the red line appears in the circle, gives you a wake up call. Unfortuantely we Christians are forced to "envision" your sexual proclivities. You can't even watch American Idol with the kids without being immersed in pagan desires being forced on you.

I'll leave Christian sexual ethics behind the closed doors.

 

[SughaNSpice]

Aaaaaannnnnnnddddd how would they prove it?

By using the Bible unaltered. Just as Christians "in the Bible" rejected their memberships in all of the clubs you listed.

Please show their cause? Please prove the Christians accusing me using the New Testament? Use ANY translation you wish.

And why are there so many GLBT's et al, at a place called Christian Forums? Most of you go out of your way to say you are non and anti-Christian?

Recruitment maybe? Or just good ol' Sodom-like inhospitality? Quite haughty most of the positions offered I may add.

I’m pretty sure you use a heavily altered bible

 

[LittleNipper]

This is why so many of us here refer to you in a negative way. Homosexuals, transexuals, pansexuals, omnisexuals, etc ARE Christians. Just because YOU (bow to God Poly ) say they aren't doesn't make it so.. Many Christian churches out there would say YOU aren't a Christian. Does that exclude you from Christianity?

The term "Christian" actually means Little Christ. I do believe that there are Christian brothers and sisters which have all sorts of sins they are guilty of; however, a christian recognizes sin for exactly what it is, and doesn't try to cover it up as okay or somehow GOD's fault. GOD forgives sinners of their sin. GOD doesn't forgive sinners of sin when they insist they are not sinning. Homosexual behavior is a sin. Fornication behavior is a sin. Adultary is a sin. As a CHRISTIAN ,I am concerned only with what GOD says in HIS WORD and need not concern myself with what some "church" says. GOD's word is the standard and not society, nor the Supreme Court. The CHRISTIAN'S allegiance is to GOD will above all else.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

I’m pretty sure you use a heavily altered bible

Your at Christian Forums. So prove it?

You are in for a long day. (So to speak.)

 

[Polycarp_fan]

The term "Christian" actually means Little Christ. I do believe that there are Christian brothers and sisters which have all sorts of sins they are guilty of; however, a christian recognizes sin for exactly what it is, and doesn't try to cover it up as okay or somehow GOD's fault. GOD forgives sinners of their sin. GOD doesn't forgive sinners of sin when they insist they are not sinning. Homosexual behavior is a sin. Fornication behavior is a sin. Adultary is a sin. As a CHRISTIAN ,I am concerned only with what GOD says in HIS WORD and need not concern myself with what some "church" says. GOD's word is the standard and not society, nor the Supreme Court. The CHRISTIAN'S allegiance is to GOD will above all else.

Not bad L-N. Just stay away from anything that may even hint of a violent nature. These people have ten-times (or more) the persecution complex of any Christian in the western world.

 

[LittleNipper]

I’m pretty sure you use a heavily altered bible

The Dead Sea scrolls say you are wrong. The Old Testament which JESUS had in HIS day on earth is the same one you can read in Hebrew if you have a mind to.

 

[sidhe]

My use of the word is accurate. Look it up.

I'm not doing your research for you. Again - post proof or retract.

You can try to water down the GLBT thing, but it still ends up sex.

You keep saying this. You keep not demonstrating it. So...

...post proof or retract. There's something called "Google Scholar." It's not as powerful as Galileo or that major paid scholastic engines, but you can look for peer-reviewed demonstration of your position, that GLBT = sex acts.

Until the STD, rejection or the red line appears in the circle, gives you a wake up call. Unfortuantely we Christians are forced to "envision" your sexual proclivities. You can't even watch American Idol with the kids without being immersed in pagan desires being forced on you.

I'll leave Christian sexual ethics behind the closed doors.

I have a kid. I'm married. My wife is quite marvelous. I had a crazy life prior to that, but have no STDs nor other children. Amazing how comprehensive sex education works like that.

Oh, you thought by the avatar I was female? Nope. I just love faeries.

 

[TheManeki]

I was always under the impression that the missionary position just asserted and reinforced a man's dominance over a woman.

That would be my opinion as well.--- most people happily copulated like animals until told how terrible it was......

I thought the pushing of the missionary position was also to guilt people into using one of the least-fun sexual positions.

 

[Kattylove]

'Homosexual' and 'heterosexual' partnership/marriage essentially boil down to exactly the same thing in my mind: two people who love each other and want to spend the rest of their lives together. How can anybody dispute that there are far worse things out there, things that actually harm people? Why, why, why choose to be offended by homosexuality in particular?

People need to understand that we are all one and the same, just as the Bible says. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. You hear? We're ALL sinners. Okay, the Bible says that sodomy isn't God's best for us once or twice. It also preaches love, and tolerance, and that we shouldn't judge others. How can you believe that God is going to condemn people for their love of one another, yet believe that He condones your hatred and abuse of your own brothers?

 

[wanderingone]

I’m pretty sure you use a heavily altered bible

I think it's impossible not to!

 

[wanderingone]

I thought the pushing of the missionary position was also to guilt people into using one of the least-fun sexual positions.

LOL- well I do recall somewhere in anthropology reading the writings of some missionaries who found the choice of sexual positions of the "natives" offensive and attributing it to their being uncivilized, and people having too much fun are often found by those of a more reserved personality to be "uncivilized"

I'm far too lazy to look up the missionary commentary that I was reading in college 20 years ago though...

I'm not inclined to suggest any particular position is the best .. I'm pretty sure God doesn't care what position I use... although I'm somewhere someone can find verses that they would insist require certain things happen or not happen

 

[Kattylove]

Oh great, now my post is over the page, and nobody will read it.

 

[Crazy Liz]

got any unbiased sources other than lifesitenews?

There was an interesting discussion of this case and another legal case about refusal of professional services to gays on NPR a week or two ago. I think it was on Talk of the Nation. If I can find the webpage about it, I'll post a link. It was a very balanced discussion with legal scholars on both sides.

 

[Crazy Liz]

This is actually a tricky one I think. On the one hand, I think a photographer should be free to work for whoever he wants. On the other hand, I hate discrimination of any kind. Hmm, the jury is out, although I am tending towards the argument that you shouldn't be able to get away with discrimination.

Edit: I think if it were me, I'd stick his camera lens where the sun doesn't shine, and find a new photographer.

When it comes to wedding photography, discrimination can work both ways. If a couple wants a non-Mormon to photograph their Temple wedding, will the photographer be allowed admission to the Temple?

Personally, I think a wedding photographer, as an artist, needs to be able to appreciate the meaning of the ritual to the couple. So if I were a Christian photographer and had only photographed Christian weddings, what would I tell a Hindu couple coming to me to photograph their Hindu wedding? Since I wouldn't know Hindu wedding customs, would I be able to do a competent job?

The legal experts I heard discussing this case and the case of the doctor who refused IVF treatment to a lesbian couple made a distinction between the free speech rights of the photographer as an artist and the obligation of the doctor to provide services without discrimination. They pretty much agreed that the doctor would be required to offer the same fertility treatments to all patients, regardless of sexual orientation, but since photography is an art, in which the artist makes a statement, the photographer should not be compelled to provide the service.

As far as those who say the couple should "just move on," I agree. Personally, I don't think I would have refused to photograph their wedding, but I would suggest it would be in their best interest to engage an artist whose views on gay marriage were more similar to theirs because there are subtle ways in which the artist's feelings about the events depicted are likely to affect the final product.

 

[cantata]

People who require eye contact are strange, especially to prove intimacy. If you're penetrating someone/being penetrated, and you don't feel a sense of intimacy...you have issues.

I actually disagree with you a bit here.

Some people seem to make a personality shift when they're having sex, and eye contact helps to confirm that one is in bed with one's loved one, and not a stranger. I find it reassuring. I don't need it all the time, though. Being talked to does just as well.

I thought the pushing of the missionary position was also to guilt people into using one of the least-fun sexual positions.

Yes, because sex is for babymaking, not for fun. Heaven forbid you should admire the jiggling of any of your wife's bits. Sin!