Gays and Lesbians (GLBT) versus Christians

[cantata]

I was always under the impression that the missionary position just asserted and reinforced a man's dominance over a woman.

It certainly can do this. It's not the best position for losing your virginity, for a start, because the woman has little or no control over the depth or speed of thrusting. It can also be quite intimidating if the man is considerably taller than the woman, and the weight distribution can be tricky if he doesn't know what he's doing.

Don't get me wrong, I like the missionary position - but I also like variety, and I like being in control.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

As someone wrote on another post, i could never have sexual relations again, but i would still be gay. You could never have sex again, but you would still be straight.
You believe homosexual sex is a sin, fine, don't have homosexual sex. Easy fixed. However, not everyone believes the same as you, so not everyone percieves it to be a sin. Preach all you like. Preaching only becomes a problem when you a) start getting nasty, b) keep on preaching even when the person you're preaching to has made it clear that they aren't interested, or c) when you use your beliefs to try and make laws that limit the rights of others.

So then, your answer to the OP is Yes?

I too am getting tired of the vitriol. Almost all of it from my adversaries is designed to ignore the questions or just get a shot in at me and claim no malice.

Like it or not, "in the Bible" homosexuality (male and female) dwells in the non-Church, sinners camp. Should Christians evangelize people that engage in homosexuality and avoid those that do and refuse the evangleization or witness? Just like they do all other peoples. We have one long post saying "yes."

How about the OP?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

It certainly can do this. It's not the best position for losing your virginity, for a start, because the woman has little or no control over the depth or speed of thrusting. It can also be quite intimidating if the man is considerably taller than the woman, and the weight distribution can be tricky if he doesn't know what he's doing.

An agreeable perspective from any Christian as well.

Don't get me wrong, I like the missionary position - but I also like variety, and I like being in control.

As long as the variety is attempted in a marriage (duh, the Christian kind), you'll find complete agreement in Bible-believing Christians.

You're already on record about the OP.

And, in your case, the "OP."

I always like to give credit to a good teacher.

 

[cantata]

All I have to say about the OP, Polycarp_fan, is that it's mostly paranoia. And to be honest, I'm sick of saying "Well, you're entitled to your beliefs." You're really not, if your beliefs are silly. And your belief that other people's sex lives are grounds for discrimination is as silly as they come.

Wah, wah, wah, freedom to practice religion. What about my freedom and everyone else's to sleep with the people we want to, marry the people we want to, and be sold goods and services like everyone else? Is our money dirty? I don't care about your religion as long as it doesn't get in the way of my life. I'd like to see you cry "freedom" when a gay photographer refuses to photograph a Christian wedding.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

All I have to say about the OP, Polycarp_fan, is that it's mostly paranoia. And to be honest, I'm sick of saying "Well, you're entitled to your beliefs." You're really not, if your beliefs are silly. And your belief that other people's sex lives are grounds for discrimination is as silly as they come.

You may have a point to consider. Which I am working on.

Wah, wah, wah, freedom to practice religion. What about my freedom and everyone else's to sleep with the people we want to, marry the people we want to, and be sold goods and services like everyone else? Is our money dirty?

Abram thought so of King Bera's money. The precedent is there. And then we have the other Sodom story about forced accpetance.

I don't care about your religion as long as it doesn't get in the way of my life. I'd like to see you cry "freedom" when a gay photographer refuses to photograph a Christian wedding.

Christians don't discrimnate on secular matters then, as I never asked the photographer at my wedding what he did sexually. I've been to many weddings and never once did the photographers sex life have anything to do with his picture taking. Never asked, never told. But HE could clearly see what my wedding represented. If he didn;t like that, I wouldn't have cared if he opted out. But GLBT's are not like we Christians.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

All I have to say about the OP, Polycarp_fan, is that it's mostly paranoia. And to be honest, I'm sick of saying "Well, you're entitled to your beliefs." You're really not, if your beliefs are silly. And your belief that other people's sex lives are grounds for discrimination is as silly as they come.

There is a Gay Agenda to force GLBT sexuality on every Christian, anywhere they dare exist out in the open. That is not myth, paranoia or urban legend. It is a fact.

Sex lives are a determining factor in the Christian Community and a very important part of proper Christian culture. I'm sure that is why the New Testament texts must be altered, ignored and outlawed by GLBT's.

You are forthright, I'll say that.

 

[WhatThe]

So then, your answer to the OP is Yes?

I too am getting tired of the vitriol. Almost all of it from my adversaries is designed to ignore the questions or just get a shot in at me and claim no malice.

Like it or not, "in the Bible" homosexuality (male and female) dwells in the non-Church, sinners camp. Should Christians evangelize people that engage in homosexuality and avoid those that do and refuse the evangleization or witness? Just like they do all other peoples. We have one long post saying "yes."

How about the OP?

By "OP" i take it you're refering to the question in your first post: "There is a gay agenda, but will it silence Christians?"
My answer? There is no such thing as the gay agenda. Should Chrisitans be silenced? Of course not. The majority of Christians spread a message of love that is always welcome. Should your religion give you the right to descriminate? No, it shouldn't.

You keep using the word 'vitriol', yet i fail to see where i have expressed bitterness and hatred.

Let me ask you this question: what if a person of another faith comes to speak to you, asking you to leave your sinful Christian ways and to convert to their faith. Would that person have the right to continuously hound you in an attempt to make you convert?

 

[wanderingone]

But GLBT's are not like we Christians.

GLBT's aren't necessarily like each other either and heterosexuals aren't necessarily like each other and Christians aren't necessarily like each other... but people who are GLB or T may well be Christians so I suggest you stop insinuating being gay, or lesbian or bisexual or transgender means one is automatically not Christian. Some of your traits might seem decidedly less than Christian to me, I'll accept that you are a follower of Christ and consider yourself a Christian even if I don't believe your ways are entirely reflective of the Christian faith, I'd appreciate it if you stop insisting that my daughter is not a Christian, she is Christian, she is a lesbian. These are not mutually exclusive label.

 

[WhatThe]

There is a Gay Agenda to force GLBT sexuality on every Christian, anywhere they dare exist out in the open. That is not myth, paranoia or urban legend. It is a fact.

That is NOT a fact. It is a ridiculous claim. No one is trying to force you to be GLBT. You either are, or you aren't; it's not something that can be changed.

 

[selfinflikted]

"I" was never searching for you in the first place. When you arrived, I did indeed try to lose you.

Obviously.

You just try to dodge, insult and set traps.

Please provide proof of this, or retract.

That is all that I mean.

No, what you mean to do, by looking at your posts, is to ridicule, dehumanize, and lie about gays. If this was indeed what you meant to do, then you have succeeded.

" Calling me a liar is your last fultile attempts at inflicting some kind of hurt.

No, calling you a liar is exposing you for what you've done in this forum. I don't like lies being spread about me, and that's exactly what you've done. I simply don't appreciate it and won't stand for it.

"Now, my dear adversary, how about the OP?

It's interesting to note, that seemingly whoever has an opinion or belief that differs from your own is considered an "adversary".

There is a Gay Agenda to force GLBT sexuality on every Christian, anywhere they dare exist out in the open. That is not myth, paranoia or urban legend. It is a fact.

No, that is not a fact. This is your own paranoia and lies.

 

[scraparcs]

Why should they just “move on”?
If a grocery store refused the business of a black woman just because she was black would you be supporting the grocery store and telling the woman to just “move on”?
If an auto insurer refused the business of a Muslim just because of her religion would you be cheering the insurance agent and telling the woman to just “move on”?
If a restaurant refused the business of a paralyzed veteran just because he was in a wheel chair would you be defending the restaurant and telling the veteran to just “move on”?

You know, thinking about it, I'm thinking that the biggest misapplication is whether it is public accommodation. I would think of a grocery store or a restaurant as a public accommodation, but not necessarily an auto insurer.

These photographers chose to discriminate against a minority just because they were a minority.
If they refused business to a black couple it would be discrimination
If they refused business to an interracial couple it would be discrimination
If they refused business to a Jewish couple it would be discrimination
If they refused business to a Muslim couple it would be discrimination
If they refused business to a handicapped couple it would be discrimination

Just because they chose to discriminate against a same gendered couple doesn’t magically change the hatred they engaged in into love nor does it make the discrimination they engaged in justifiable. The photographers chose to discriminate and they broke the law and were dealt with just as if they discriminated based on skin color.

[/quote]

I'm not sure the above should be considered discrimination either. Now that doesn't mean that one shouldn't spread the word that this person is making a poor decision and it's best to avoid them, but I'm still ambivalent about codifying such decrees into law where there isn't necessarily a clear public accommodation.

All I have to say about the OP, Polycarp_fan, is that it's mostly paranoia. And to be honest, I'm sick of saying "Well, you're entitled to your beliefs." You're really not, if your beliefs are silly. And your belief that other people's sex lives are grounds for discrimination is as silly as they come.

Wah, wah, wah, freedom to practice religion. What about my freedom and everyone else's to sleep with the people we want to, marry the people we want to, and be sold goods and services like everyone else? Is our money dirty? I don't care about your religion as long as it doesn't get in the way of my life. I'd like to see you cry "freedom" when a gay photographer refuses to photograph a Christian wedding.

I kind of wish that would happen, as I'd find trying to sue in that situation equally ludicrous.

 

[Big Empty Circle]

As to the OP, that's an odd case and I can't say I agree that people should be forced by law to accept the patronage of gay people... if they want to cut themselves out of business because of their personal beliefs, let them; capitalism will no doubt do its thing and more "tolerant" professionals will be the ones holding the dough.

The title of the thread sort of irritates me, though. GLBTs versus Christians. I have a newsflash, which Polycarp_fan will no doubt refuse to believe because he lives in his own little gay-conspiracy-theorist fantasy world: most queer people don't hate Christians or consider themselves the adversaries of Christianity; likewise many Christians (I'm tempted to say a majority, even, though I can't prove it) don't hate queer people or want to punish them for their sexuality -- wonder of wonders, some Christians are even queer. I as a queer person have many Christian friends, not all of whom are straight.

Polycarp_fan is just trying to draw battle lines where none exist: "You're either on the side of Christians, or you're on the side of queers -- neither can live while the other survives!" There's no need to be so divisive. Queer people as a general rule have no interest or desire to eliminate Christianity, unlike some Christians, a very FEW very VOCAL Christians like Polycarp, who want to scour the earth and get rid of all the queer folks. In other words, the only obstacle to us living in relative peace side-by-side (in some cases both queer and Christian; in the worst cases, agreeing to disagree and living and letting live) are people who are determined to make this "us versus them." I'm neither a Christian nor a biblical scholar, but isn't there something in the Bible along the lines of love thine enemy, turn the other cheek, that sort of thing? I guess it's less fun to live by those bits than by the God-hates-Sodomites fire-and-brimstone stuff.

 

[stan1980]

<<staff edit>>

Like any true Christian, I don't need proof, I just know!

 

[cantata]

Abram thought so of King Bera's money. The precedent is there. And then we have the other Sodom story about forced accpetance.

Then I hope you think that Muslims, for example, should also have the right to refuse goods and services to non-Muslims.

Christians don't discrimnate on secular matters then, as I never asked the photographer at my wedding what he did sexually. I've been to many weddings and never once did the photographers sex life have anything to do with his picture taking. Never asked, never told. But HE could clearly see what my wedding represented. If he didn;t like that, I wouldn't have cared if he opted out. But GLBT's are not like we Christians.

Well, at least you're consistent.

What you fail to realise is that every discriminatory act is painful to someone who has struggled with discrimination and their sexuality anyway. One loony won't take pictures at your heterosexual Christian wedding? What of it? You know there are hundreds of other photographers out there willing to take snaps of your happy day, and it's not like you have to spend your life being vilified because of something you can't change about yourself.

There is a Gay Agenda to force GLBT sexuality on every Christian, anywhere they dare exist out in the open. That is not myth, paranoia or urban legend. It is a fact.

Paaaaaranoia. Look behind you! The gays are coming!

Seriously, I know it feels good to be a victim, but it feels much better to be honest with yourself and others. Christians in the US are not oppressed by gay people. You have no idea what oppression means.

Sex lives are a determining factor in the Christian Community and a very important part of proper Christian culture. I'm sure that is why the New Testament texts must be altered, ignored and outlawed by GLBT's.

Yeah, those darned Christians - their whole culture is defined by sex acts.

You are forthright, I'll say that.

I'm just tired of all this pussyfooting about.

 

[Eve_Sundancer]

I think that, in regards to the OP, it was discrimination. I don't know if they should have sued necessarily, but on the other hand the photographers were violating the state's non-discrimination laws by refusing service. That's just dumb.

Now, if I were the photographers and only wanted to photograph "traditional marriage" then I would put something like that with my name, ya know? Business cards, ads, signs: Elane's Photography, Photographing Traditional Marriages since 1995 or some such thing. Make it clear how she stands so people don't have to bother contacting her if they'll only be refused. She may lose sales but hey, it was her decision.

 

[PsychMJC]

But GLBT's are not like we Christians.

This is why so many of us here refer to you in a negative way. Homosexuals, transexuals, pansexuals, omnisexuals, etc ARE Christians. Just because YOU (bow to God Poly ) say they aren't doesn't make it so.. Many Christian churches out there would say YOU aren't a Christian. Does that exclude you from Christianity?

 

[PsychMJC]

Seriously, I know it feels good to be a victim, but it feels much better to be honest with yourself and others. Christians in the US are not oppressed by gay people. You have no idea what oppression means.

Oh yes we are! I mean, come on, I cant even watch my favorite show (Torchwood) without having teh Gayz making out all over the place..
And now my favoritist thing in the whole world, rainbows, are ruined forever!

 

[cantata]

Oh yes we are! I mean, come on, I cant even watch my favorite show (Torchwood) without having teh Gayz making out all over the place..
And now my favoritist thing in the whole world, rainbows, are ruined forever!

*chuckle*

 

[Eve_Sundancer]

Seriously, I know it feels good to be a victim, but it feels much better to be honest with yourself and others. Christians in the US are not oppressed by gay people. You have no idea what oppression means.

Good point. Those of us in developed countries screaming "Help! Help! I'm being repressed!" have no idea how good we have it here.

 

[Paulos23]

Polycarp, why is it that you always read a post and then make it out to mean the total opposite?

Because he doesn't like to have his world view challenged. If something doesn't fit, he has to twist it to make it fit.