Gay theology (i.e. Mel White, Soulforce) why even try?

[WhatThe]

How else can we prove out point?

I think a far better perspective is: Why do you guys want to ignore the facts? What are you hiding, or, hiding from?

I don't ignore any facts.
You don't present any facts, only cliched, stereotypical opinions.

 

[sidhe]

I, just for fun, ran "little AND black AND book AND queer" through the GALILEO scholastic search. Just before it made FireFox go kaput, I was able to see that no scholarly journal has made reference to this, and most of the results were concerning the linguistics of the word "queer."

 

[Maren]

And you site "The Boston Globe?" Not exactly an independent voice on the support of gay culture.

It is a respected news organization, they would not be such if they knowingly falsified news stories. A newspapers editorial opinions has no effect on their ability to report facts. Rather, unlike MassResistance, they fire those that misreport facts.

One child exposed to a sexually innapropriate "lesson" is one too many.

I think I agreed with that. Yet you have not shown that there is any "gay agenda" to do this, much less that such things are taught in schools.

Isn't that seen as a hate crime to the GLBT community. I have never seen ONE GLBT/GLSEN example about NOT engaging in homosexual behaviors. It all seems slanted to encouragement.

Of course you haven't. MassResistance and other anti-gay groups don't have an interest in providing both sides.

Christians should have the right to "opt out" of gay orientation classes that their children are forced to attend.

You have yet to provide an example of GLBT events that children are forced to attend. So far, every example has been voluntary and outside of school hours.

Unless, of course, you are talking about teachers saying that some children have two mothers and some a mother and a father, etc. But those discussions do not mention sex. And if that is your take, then students often see religion in the schools, from mention of religion in history to other children praying over lunch or before a test. If you want to be equal, if the fact that some families are different cannot be mentioned then we should also not be able to mentioned religion at all, or allow children to pray.

You GLBT's don't want religion foeced on your children, than why sex acts on ours?

Yet if Paganism or Islam was being talked about, from what I've seen, you'd be one of the first in line to object to it.

Mom and mom are lesbian ONLY by their chosen sex life. Otherwise it is just two women raising children. Nothing wrong with that.

So why do you object to the mentioning that some children have two mommies as a promotion of homosexuality, since sex is not mentioned?

What exaggeration? Have you ever been to a public school? Cold and calculating these handouts. Kids don't keep things private for more than a few seconds in school. Any recruiter knows that.

Except these handouts were not given out during school, rather I seem to recall it was on a Saturday. Nor is there any evidence of anytype of "recruiting", rather it all points to this being a mistake. It is worth pointing out that this was one event in one school from three years ago, yet it still played up on some anti-gay websites (showing how rarely this actually occurs). You'd think if this were some "agenda", these mistakes would happen thousands of times annually.

And yes, I have been to public schools. Not only did I spend 12 years in them, my children each spent 12 years in them as well. In fact, they are all still in public schools as each of them is in public universities (though their parents both attended private religious universities). In fact, my kids attended public schools in two different states. Strangely, they never saw anything close to what you try to claim occurs in every school.

Most parents are adults. They know exactly what is happening and why. Many people didn't make it to adulthood withoutexpereincing with sexual licentiousness and how it spreads.

Yet what does that have to do with the schools teaching homosexuality? Instead, it is that reason that sex education (the normal type, not homosexual recruitment) is taught in school; because we know many kids will experiment and we at least want them to understand the risks and how to stay safe. Which again, even in comprehensive sex education, inludes teaching abstinance as the best way to stay safe.

If it weren't for these brave groups of committed parents fighting the good fight and opposing the Gay Agenda, GLSEN, PFLAG and Gay Straight Alliance, our schools would be even worse than they already are. As it stands now, "anything goes," is as close to pandemic as a jar of condoms offered to school kids.

Yet you've not been able to prove any of these claims. You've not shown how GLSEN even promotes sex. In fact, if you go to their website it is only about stopping abuse (both verbal and physical) against gays and making schools safe for everyone.

As I've pointed out about PFLAG, they are parents -- almost all of which are heterosexual -- that merely are promoting anti-violence and equal rights for gays. What reason do heterosexual parents have for wanting to turn their kids gay?

And the Gay Straight Alliance is also about making schools safe. It is about bring Gay and Straight kids together to work towards making the schools safe for everyone -- which is why it is called a Gay Straight alliance.

And what is the "gay agenda", where is it written?

In fact, none of these groups promote sexuality or teach sexual acts.

NOW!!!!!???

How about back to the "OP?"

As cantata taught me, that means "Original Post."

Perhaps if you quit posting propoganda that is so easily proven to be false. I wouldn't have entered the debate except for the MassResistance slander that you posted as "evidence" of schools teaching gay sex.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Lies. How can you sit there with a straight face and say that? You've done nothingbut sling mud at gays since you sauntered into this forum.

I have shown how stupid your assertion on every occassion you have written the charge. Gay sex is something a Christian should oppose doing or promoting.

Well, you sure seem to speak for him an awful lot.

I just present the words in the Bible accurately. That's it. I'm sorry you can't read them for lack of whatever position you are claiming denies you the ability.

You know, the one I've issued in more than one thread by now? The one I have to keep repeating because you are tapdancing around the fact that you can't meet my challenge?

As you can tell, I am not the lovey-dovey Christian type. Which of course I am working on. I just don't like bullies and I react to them the way I always have. I see GLBT's as bullying Christians to accept their sexual perversions. I am more like the shepard that knows how to take out a bear threatening the flock with a proverbial stone in my proverbial sling. I just use words given me from the Bible.

In order for me to believe the bible, I need to know god is real. Show me god.

That's it? Well, that's BS. The Bible is the words of God written down by more than forty people over a few thousand years. People that wrote very embarrasing things about themselves and the "heores" of the Bible. Makes for a very strong stance about the authority of the cause of the wrotings to be written.

If you are to dense to figure out God with all that is around you at this very moment, pal, that is not for me to drill into you. Go back through your family tree and see if it leads to the chaos of an unreasoning universe creating your family.

Not believing in God, still has nothing to do with you being able to read the Bible and see that this homosexual agenda forcing its way into the Church is not based on any support FROM the Bible. I can read a book about atheism (Sam Harris's for example) without having to believe that atheism is provable. In fact 0 x 0 = atheism, not reality. According to my calculator. My Bible is down the hall.

 

[selfinflikted]

I have shown how stupid your assertion on every occassion you have written the charge.

Know, you haven't. What you have shown us is bigotry, spite, hate. I think EVERYONE that has read your posts will agree with me here. You're obviously delusional, or your short-term memory is severely lacking. I could quote for you MULTIPLE posts of yours that are filled with nothing but lies and hate.

I just present the words in the Bible accurately. That's it. I'm sorry you can't read them for lack of whatever position you are claiming denies you the ability.

No, you present the words of the bible based on translations, whose accuracy is up for debate.

As you can tell, I am not the lovey-dovey Christian type.

Really? I must have missed that.

Which of course I am working on.

Then I suggest you try much harder.

I just don't like bullies and I react to them the way I always have.

You, sir, are the only bully here.

I see GLBT's as bullying Christians to accept their sexual perversions.

Then your view of reality is skewed. We want nothing more than to be left alone by the christian right.

I am more like the shepard that knows how to take out a bear threatening the flock with a proverbial stone in my proverbial sling. I just use words given me from the Bible.

Yes, I would have expected no less. Christians of your ilk often use the bible as a weapon instead of what it was apperently intended for.

That's it? Well, that's BS.

The Bible is the words of God written down by more than forty people over a few thousand years. People that wrote very embarrasing things about themselves and the "heores" of the Bible. Makes for a very strong stance about the authority of the cause of the wrotings to be written.

If you are to dense to figure out God with all that is around you at this very moment, pal, that is not for me to drill into you. Go back through your family tree and see if it leads to the chaos of an unreasoning universe creating your family.

Not believing in God, still has nothing to do with you being able to read the Bible and see that this homosexual agenda forcing its way into the Church is not based on any support FROM the Bible. I can read a book about atheism (Sam Harris's for example) without having to believe that atheism is provable. In fact 0 x 0 = atheism, not reality. According to my calculator. My Bible is down the hall.

Just as I thought. You submit this entire Wall of Text, with nothing of substance contained within. I ask for proof of your god, and you can't give me anything. The bible is not evidence of your god. There are a myriad of religious texts found all over the world. Does that mean that each of the god(s) described in each one of them is real? I think not.

If I am to take your position (based on the bible) seriously, I'm going to need proof that it is valid. The only way to do that is to prove to me that god is real. You haven't done that, and you can't. Therefore, I do not take your position seriously.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

It is a respected news organization, they would not be such if they knowingly falsified news stories. A newspapers editorial opinions has no effect on their ability to report facts. Rather, unlike MassResistance, they fire those that misreport facts.

An ultra liberal newspaper is hardly what I would call honest. There's no doubt why MassResistance was labeled a hate group. They expose the truth about the gay agenda. That gets you screamed at, threatened and labeled by GLBT's. Yet, their behavior is not hate. Up is no down.

I think I agreed with that. Yet you have not shown that there is any "gay agenda" to do this, much less that such things are taught in schools.

Of course you think MassResistance is a hate group. But, it still doesn't change the actual happeings reported on their site:

http://www.massresistance.org/media/video/brainwashing.html

Extremely slick propaganda directed at the youngest of children! The videos below are from It's Elementary, a 78-minute feature film produced by homosexual activists. These are actual scenes from elementary schools in Massachusetts and New York. It's Elementary is meant to be a training video for homosexual activist teachers across the country. In addition, the film itself has been shown to schoolchildren in public schools in Massachusetts and elsewhere.

This is what is actually going on in more and more elementary schools across America. Watching this will really affect you! You will not believe what you are seeing.

Part 1: "Gay & Lesbian Pride" Day in Elementary Schools - Actual footage of teachers indoctrinating children that homosexuality is "healthy education." (Length: 8:59)

There is no opt-out for children or their families in Massachusetts schools. Of course. The Gay Agenda won't allow that.

[quoteOf course you haven't. MassResistance and other anti-gay groups don't have an interest in providing both sides.[/quote]

What other side of sexual orientation orientation is there for the GLBT community? It's always OK to be gay.

[quoteYou have yet to provide an example of GLBT events that children are forced to attend. So far, every example has been voluntary and outside of school hours.[/quote]

That is patently a false statement. You know there is no opt-out for children to escape th gay agenda. Why do you think David Parker got kicked out of his child's school?

Unless, of course, you are talking about teachers saying that some children have two mothers and some a mother and a father, etc. But those discussions do not mention sex.

From National Geographic to porn. We are not ignorant of how seduction works pal.And "mom" and "Dad" are exclusive to the "sex" thing. You do know that don't you? You can't become a "Dad" or "a Mom'" It's all about the indoctrination of orientation. Basically the words are interchangeable. Otherwise "the Bible" and "Christianity" wouldn't be so opposed by the very same people that think "mommy and mommy" is not a recruitment tactic.

"And if that is your take, then students often see religion in the schools, from mention of religion in history to other children praying over lunch or before a test. If you want to be equal, if the fact that some families are different cannot be mentioned then we should also not be able to mentioned religion at all, or allow children to pray."

You can't have a teacher teach Christianity. We are not equal. Religion is now taught exclusively out of the school system and banned from the school system. If you are saying that that is OK for gay sex adherants and their proclivities and relationships to be ousted from the public school, than that is the equality I am looking for. Sex should be taught as a physiological fact in education. Deviant sexuality needs to be outside of school teachings.

[quoteYet if Paganism or Islam was being talked about, from what I've seen, you'd be one of the first in line to object to it.[/quote]

Do I appear shy to you about comparisons? Free exchange of ideas pal.

So why do you object to the mentioning that some children have two mommies as a promotion of homosexuality, since sex is not mentioned?

We know what is going on pal. Why are you still trying to hide being your facade> We Christians came out from what you are peddling.

Except these handouts were not given out during school, rather I seem to recall it was on a Saturday. Nor is there any evidence of anytype of "recruiting", rather it all points to this being a mistake. It is worth pointing out that this was one event in one school from three years ago, yet it still played up on some anti-gay websites (showing how rarely this actually occurs). You'd think if this were some "agenda", these mistakes would happen thousands of times annually.

You keep peddling that fairy tale and we Christians will still be showing reality in our public schools.

And yes, I have been to public schools. Not only did I spend 12 years in them, my children each spent 12 years in them as well. In fact, they are all still in public schools as each of them is in public universities (though their parents both attended private religious universities). In fact, my kids attended public schools in two different states. Strangely, they never saw anything close to what you try to claim occurs in every school.

I dare say you have been accepting of this gay thing and see it as nothing wrong. We don't see through your eyes. How do you think 1 in 4 girls are now STD positive? Wearing the wrong gym clothes? The gay agenda is part of a larger agenda.

Yet what does that have to do with the schools teaching homosexuality? Instead, it is that reason that sex education (the normal type, not homosexual recruitment) is taught in school; because we know many kids will experiment and we at least want them to understand the risks and how to stay safe. Which again, even in comprehensive sex education, inludes teaching abstinance as the best way to stay safe.

Our schools show little signs of morally sound teachers. They show proof of a perverse and licentious group of aged hippies preaching the anything goes of the sixties gneration, that are now PhD's working on public funds.

Yet you've not been able to prove any of these claims. You've not shown how GLSEN even promotes sex. In fact, if you go to their website it is only about stopping abuse (both verbal and physical) against gays and making schools safe for everyone.

Their idea of stopping abuse is silencing any opposition of the gay agenda of indoctrianting school kids to enegage in homosexuality and not get opposed of doing so. It is pure recruitment into gay life. No different than oposing Military recruiters or positive military images on campus by the Lefties.

As I've pointed out about PFLAG, they are parents -- almost all of which are heterosexual -- that merely are promoting anti-violence and equal rights for gays. What reason do heterosexual parents have for wanting to turn their kids gay?

Protecting their children. I'd bet every parent searches their hearts on how it happened that their child turned out gay or lesbian. And, I notice that they also decry a promiscuous life. Are they homophobes too, these parents of gays and lesbians. Even they know its all about sex. They are trying to do the best to prtoect their child from the menace of gay life. I don't fault then for that. But, I don't want them near my children and they shouldn't fsault me for that.

And the Gay Straight Alliance is also about making schools safe. It is about bring Gay and Straight kids together to work towards making the schools safe for everyone -- which is why it is called a Gay Straight alliance.

Bunk. It is about turning this society upside down. It is malevolent through and through. Even in today's schools gay life is not celebrated. It is tolerated because kids don't want gay adults harrassing them. I have been working with troubled teens for over two decades.

And what is the "gay agenda", where is it written?

Lou Sheldon has done a good job of exposing it. Althoigh the gays and lesbians get enraged and vioelnt about the guy:http://www.annoy.com/features/doc.html?DocumentID=100722

INTRODUCTION

How many of you haven’t heard of the “Gay Agenda” or “Radical Homosexual Agenda”?
Although many claim there isn't one, here it is, the new, improved radical, homosexual agenda for 2005. A roadmap, if you will, towards destroying nuclear families, and reshaping society to the point that if your son isn’t blowing his professor, don’t expect any graduation ceremonies. For all the fear-mongering pigs that use religion to marginalize, humiliate, electrocute and murder others, may this new Gay Agenda permeate your worst nightmares. Yes, Focus on the Family, Traditional Values Coalition, Concerned Women for America, American Family Association, Family Research Council, Eagle Forum, Alliance Defense Fund, Chrisitian Coaltion, Morality in the Media and all you other [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]s, this means you.

In fact, none of these groups promote sexuality or teach sexual acts.

The very words "Gay" and "Lesbian" denote sex acts of each group.

Perhaps if you quit posting propoganda that is so easily proven to be false. I wouldn't have entered the debate except for the MassResistance slander that you posted as "evidence" of schools teaching gay sex.

Feel free to say what you want.

 

[Maren]

I have shown how stupid your assertion on every occassion you have written the charge.

I'm going to agree with selfinflikted on this one. You have appeared to be a bully when coming in, though that isn't to claim that people haven't bullied you back. Still, it's rather disingenuous to complain of others bullying when you have done it since your first posts.

Further, I also agree that I can't recall a single claim you have factually backed up. You've not shown any evidence of a "gay agenda" in schools, or that homosexuals are welcomed in while Christians are not allowed in, is just one example.

Gay sex is something a Christian should oppose doing or promoting.

It is your right to believe that. On the flip side, it is equally a gay persons choice to believe that gay sex is perfectly normal. Their opinion is every bit as valid as yours (at least until you can provide proof that, 1, your God exists and, 2, that he agrees with you).

I just present the words in the Bible accurately.

No, that isn't "just" what you present. You make all sorts of claims about gays in schools, a "gay agenda", about how various organizations are recruiting kids to be gay, etc. If you just left your arguments to the Bible, I believe most here would leave you alone. Again, I think all of us realize you have the right to believe what you want.

That's it. I'm sorry you can't read them for lack of whatever position you are claiming denies you the ability.

No, you read the Bible through your own perception. Others see it differently and many of them seem to have just as strong a claim to what they believe, based on the Bible, as you do.

As you can tell, I am not the lovey-dovey Christian type. Which of course I am working on. I just don't like bullies and I react to them the way I always have.

So, I would think you would be more understanding that people have reacted badly to your attempts to bully them.

I see GLBT's as bullying Christians to accept their sexual perversions. I am more like the shepard that knows how to take out a bear threatening the flock with a proverbial stone in my proverbial sling. I just use words given me from the Bible.

Which is fine if the flock is your church. However, the rest of the world also has a right to believe as they choose, so long as it is legal. That you wish to deny these people rights based on your beliefs is not fine.

And just to make a point, you've made lots of claims about gays "recruiting". Despite the fact that you've offered no real evidence and the facts seem to disagree with your claim, so what? If you have the right to recruit to your religion then others have the right to recruit people to whatever they choose -- whether they be Muslim, Mormon, gay or capitalists. That is part of living in a free country.

Though again, gays are not attempting to recruit.

That's it? Well, that's BS. The Bible is the words of God written down by more than forty people over a few thousand years. People that wrote very embarrasing things about themselves and the "heores" of the Bible. Makes for a very strong stance about the authority of the cause of the wrotings to be written.

Not really, especially when you consider that those who had embarrassing things written about them were not the ones writing the Bible. You also need to ignore that pretty much every type of story in the Bible was originally found in an older, usually Pagan, religion.

If you are to dense to figure out God with all that is around you at this very moment, pal, that is not for me to drill into you. Go back through your family tree and see if it leads to the chaos of an unreasoning universe creating your family.

Sorry, but no. There is so much chaos and randomness in the world that the design seems really poor, if there was a grand design. How many millions of innocent people have died at nature's hand; floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquake, famine, etc.

Not to mention that if there is a God, there are any number people have to choose from. What makes the Christian God any more believable than any of the others?

Not believing in God, still has nothing to do with you being able to read the Bible and see that this homosexual agenda forcing its way into the Church is not based on any support FROM the Bible. I can read a book about atheism (Sam Harris's for example) without having to believe that atheism is provable. In fact 0 x 0 = atheism, not reality. According to my calculator. My Bible is down the hall.

And that is your calculator. I guarantee if you had been born in Japan or Iran you'd believe differently.

 

[levi501]

You can't reconcile homosexuality as good or bad because so much of the bible is inconsistent contradicting and false.

If there is a god you'd think he could do better than the bible.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

I'm going to agree with selfinflikted on this one. You have appeared to be a bully when coming in, though that isn't to claim that people haven't bullied you back. Still, it's rather disingenuous to complain of others bullying when you have done it since your first posts.

No matter the tact, opposing gay culture is going to get you ridiculed, belittled and accused. I just give it back.

Further, I also agree that I can't recall a single claim you have factually backed up. You've not shown any evidence of a "gay agenda" in schools, or that homosexuals are welcomed in while Christians are not allowed in, is just one example.

Are you from America? You can't teach Christianity in schools, but you can teach gay life.

[/quoteIt is your right to believe that. On the flip side, it is equally a gay persons choice to believe that gay sex is perfectly normal. Their opinion is every bit as valid as yours (at least until you can provide proof that, 1, your God exists and, 2, that he agrees with you).[/quote]

My God exists. Yours doesn't. End of that discussion. It also clouds your every opinion and mine too. If you think that gay sex is normal, I can see why you were flippant about the calculator. Do we fight or respect each others "choices?" I am not allowed to fight. I can only use words.

No, that isn't "just" what you present. You make all sorts of claims about gays in schools, a "gay agenda", about how various organizations are recruiting kids to be gay, etc. If you just left your arguments to the Bible, I believe most here would leave you alone.

Um, do you see the premise of this thread? The gay rights supporters have done their typical work of spinning convoluted tales to ignore it.

Again, I think all of us realize you have the right to believe what you want.

As long as I only talk in my Church. Yet, gay sex gets proclaimed from the rooftops? (Through satellite TV.)

No, you read the Bible through your own perception. Others see it differently and many of them seem to have just as strong a claim to what they believe, based on the Bible, as you do.

Still not one place that ANYONE can present a gay promoting or supporting text. Not once.

So, I would think you would be more understanding that people have reacted badly to your attempts to bully them.

No matter how you oppose gay culture, if you do you get hammered. It's fascinating to watch Sodom rise.

[quoteWhich is fine if the flock is your church.[/quote]

The ghettoizing of Christians. Thanks for your honesty.

However, the rest of the world also has a right to believe as they choose, so long as it is legal. That you wish to deny these people rights based on your beliefs is not fine.

I have written many, many times that I do not care to stop pagans from doing what pagans do. Or, secularists et al.

And just to make a point, you've made lots of claims about gays "recruiting". Despite the fact that you've offered no real evidence and the facts seem to disagree with your claim, so what? If you have the right to recruit to your religion then others have the right to recruit people to whatever they choose -- whether they be Muslim, Mormon, gay or capitalists. That is part of living in a free country.

Though again, gays are not attempting to recruit.

All I seek is a free excange of ideas. I'll even accept that it will make me and them feel uncomfortable. I believe that if the Gospel was allowed to be preached and accepted by those that would hear it, society and the world would not be where it is right now.

Not really, especially when you consider that those who had embarrassing things written about them were not the ones writing the Bible. You also need to ignore that pretty much every type of story in the Bible was originally found in an older, usually Pagan, religion.

I became a Christian after much study. It wasn't a knee-jerk response to peer pressure or desire to find a group. It was all about seeing reality all around me.

Sorry, but no. There is so much chaos and randomness in the world that the design seems really poor, if there was a grand design.

Only mankind has the power to screw things up. As the Bible shows, we were created with a special aspect of our nature and after the world was.

How many millions of innocent people have died at nature's hand; floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquake, famine, etc.

No animal can have feelings about that. Why care at all? If nothing bad happens to you, evolution and luck is your freind. Sorry I can't agree with accidents creating accidents that became our world. That's more absurd than crying about bad things happenng to good people.

Not to mention that if there is a God, there are any number people have to choose from. What makes the Christian God any more believable than any of the others?

No one is arguing with Taoists. Et al. Even Muslims side with atheists. And of course your gay counterparts. Only Jesus gets so many adversaries in one place. But, before you go there, I'm not keen on the persecution/martyrdom complex either. "It is what it is," is a great saying.

And that is your calculator. I guarantee if you had been born in Japan or Iran you'd believe differently.

Even in those countries, something cannot come from nothing.

Ask Honda or the familiy of the deposed Shaw.

 

[selfinflikted]

First, thanks to Maren for catching my back on the above posts. I can pretty much agree with you on everything you've said.

No matter the tact, opposing gay culture is going to get you ridiculed, belittled and accused. I just give it back.

Do you even hear yourself talking? I'm really starting to doubt your sincerety on a number of things.

Are you from America? You can't teach Christianity in schools, but you can teach gay life.

Christianity belongs in a theology classroom. It is taught, from an intellectual point of view, quite often there. If you are insinuating that it belongs in a science class room, being taught right along side evolution, then you are gravely mistaken.

My God exists. Yours doesn't. End of that discussion.

Statements with nothing to back it up - again. What would make a person like me believe in your god over any other alleged god in any other religion? Believing in imaginary friends won't make them real.

It also clouds your every opinion and mine too. If you think that gay sex is normal, I can see why you were flippant about the calculator. Do we fight or respect each others "choices?" I am not allowed to fight. I can only use words.

I'm fine with any christian being christian. Why can't you keep your nose out of our business? You are the one not respecting choices here.

Um, do you see the premise of this thread? The gay rights supporters have done their typical work of spinning convoluted tales to ignore it.

My irony meter just exploded.

As long as I only talk in my Church. Yet, gay sex gets proclaimed from the rooftops? (Through satellite TV.)

There is one gay network (Logo) that I know of. There are at LEAST 5 christian television networks that I can name off the top of my head. No one is forcing you, or anyone else, to watch programming geared towards gays. I certainly don't watch any christians channel, EVER, unless Jan Crouch (sp?) is on - she's probably the most fabulous drag queen I've ever seen. And funny too.

Still not one place that ANYONE can present a gay promoting or supporting text. Not once.

That's debateable. Besides, why should the bible hold any sway whatsoever over non-christians? It's about as important to me as Alice in Wonderland.

No matter how you oppose gay culture, if you do you get hammered. It's fascinating to watch Sodom rise.

If you try to suppress someone, expect backlash. That's only logical.

The ghettoizing of Christians. Thanks for your honesty.

Are you still serious about this? lol. I'd like some proof please.

I have written many, many times that I do not care to stop pagans from doing what pagans do. Or, secularists et al.

Your posts betray this. Almost all of them, in fact.

All I seek is a free excange of ideas. I'll even accept that it will make me and them feel uncomfortable. I believe that if the Gospel was allowed to be preached and accepted by those that would hear it, society and the world would not be where it is right now.

I've heard the gospel. I was "saved". I'm still gay. Nothing changed except my ideas about god, or a lack thereof.

I became a Christian after much study.

That same study is what fueled my disbelief in god. Ironic.

It wasn't a knee-jerk response to peer pressure or desire to find a group. It was all about seeing reality all around me.

Reality in no way points to biblegod.

 

[Maren]

An ultra liberal newspaper is hardly what I would call honest.

Yet somehow it is the largest newspaper in New England. And again, their editorial positions has nothing to do with their ability to report the news. But I'll make you a deal -- if you find a better news source (and activist groups do not count as news sources) we'll see what it has to say. Every news account I've seen agrees with the Boston Globe story and disagrees with the claims of MassResistance.

There's no doubt why MassResistance was labeled a hate group. They expose the truth about the gay agenda. That gets you screamed at, threatened and labeled by GLBT's. Yet, their behavior is not hate. Up is no down.

Of course you think MassResistance is a hate group.

No, they are labeled a hate group because they lie about events. Again, this is not a gay group that is calling them a hate group. And again, if it is just because they are anti-gay, why is it that none of the other major Christian based anti-gay groups are listed as hate groups?

I call MassResistance a hate group because that is what they are. They promote lies as the truth.

But, it still doesn't change the actual happeings reported on their site:

http://www.massresistance.org/media/video/brainwashing.html

There is no opt-out for children or their families in Massachusetts schools. Of course. The Gay Agenda won't allow that.

You've not shown any "gay agenda" in the schools. Rather, all you've shown is that Massachusetts schools teach about how some families have two mommies or two daddies, some have one mom or one dad, and others have a mom and a dad. That isn't a gay agenda, especially since they spend more time on "heterosexuality" as they do on "homosexuality".

In fact, if there were truly this gay agenda you are claiming, would then not be trying to remove all references to heterosexual marriage from Massachusetts schools?

What other side of sexual orientation orientation is there for the GLBT community? It's always OK to be gay.

It is OK to be gay, despite the fact you believe otherwise. There are no laws against it and gay marriage is legal in Massachusetts. Rather, you are trying to deny others rights based on your belief that they are wrong.

That is patently a false statement. You know there is no opt-out for children to escape th gay agenda. Why do you think David Parker got kicked out of his child's school?

David Parker was arrested from his child's school because he refused to leave. He went their to protest a book that showed different types of families. And again, the book did not only show homosexual parents, it showed all types of families. Again, you have given no evidence of a gay agenda.

From National Geographic to porn. We are not ignorant of how seduction works pal.And "mom" and "Dad" are exclusive to the "sex" thing. You do know that don't you? You can't become a "Dad" or "a Mom'" It's all about the indoctrination of orientation. Basically the words are interchangeable. Otherwise "the Bible" and "Christianity" wouldn't be so opposed by the very same people that think "mommy and mommy" is not a recruitment tactic.

Sorry, teaching about different types of families is not recruitment, no matter how much you want to claim it is. Rather, it is showing the reality of the world.

You can't have a teacher teach Christianity. We are not equal. Religion is now taught exclusively out of the school system and banned from the school system. If you are saying that that is OK for gay sex adherants and their proclivities and relationships to be ousted from the public school, than that is the equality I am looking for. Sex should be taught as a physiological fact in education. Deviant sexuality needs to be outside of school teachings.

Again, gay sex is not taught. Being homosexual is not taught. You keep trying to promote this straw man that doesn't exist.

What is taught is reality, some kids that come to school have two same-sex parents, just as some kids only have a single parent (from divorce or death), and some even have no parents but are in foster homes. This is not teaching sexual orientation. Your claim is the same as stating that teaching Plymouth Colony was founded by Puritans is teaching religion in schools. In fact, neither religion or homosexuality is being taught.

Do I appear shy to you about comparisons? Free exchange of ideas pal.



We know what is going on pal. Why are you still trying to hide being your facade> We Christians came out from what you are peddling.



You keep peddling that fairy tale and we Christians will still be showing reality in our public schools.

No, you want to hide reality. The fact is that there are families that have two same-sex parents. That is reality.

I dare say you have been accepting of this gay thing and see it as nothing wrong. We don't see through your eyes. How do you think 1 in 4 girls are now STD positive? Wearing the wrong gym clothes?

LOL. Sorry, 1 in 4 girls having STDs is completely unrelated to any "gay agenda". Gays are not interested in "only sex all the time", that is a lie promoted by people with anti-gay agendas.

Though it is interesting that it seems to be Christians that most want gays to have promiscuous sex. Most gays I know want to find that special someone and marry. Instead, Christians are the ones seeking to block protections for gay relationships.

The gay agenda is part of a larger agenda.

You sound like you are in serious need of a tinfoil hat.

Our schools show little signs of morally sound teachers. They show proof of a perverse and licentious group of aged hippies preaching the anything goes of the sixties gneration, that are now PhD's working on public funds.

Our schools weren't intended to teach morals, they were designed to teach reading, writing and arithmetic. I find it amazing how many Christians want to pass the teaching of morals to the schools. It is even more ironic when you hear many of those same Christians talking about how corrupt government is -- yet these are the people they insist should teach our children morals.

Personally, we taught our children morals and are glad the school didn't teach morals. You'd even agree with most of the morals we taught our children, as shocked as you might be to hear that. Though we did have times where our children had questions about things they learned in school and how it lined up with what we taught them. I didn't have any problem with what the school taught them, rather it just gave us the opportunity to explain to our children what we believe.

Their idea of stopping abuse is silencing any opposition of the gay agenda of indoctrianting school kids to enegage in homosexuality and not get opposed of doing so.

No, that appears to be your idea. It is ironic that you'd even try to claim this. You are the one who wants to prevent even something as basic as the fact a child may have two same sex parents. Gays simply want the right to live their lives in peace and with equal rights.

You are the one screaming about how your rights are being violated because your beliefs are not being followed.

It is pure recruitment into gay life. No different than oposing Military recruiters or positive military images on campus by the Lefties.

Again, just like teaching kids about Plymouth Colony is recruiting kids to be Puritans or teaching kids about the founding of Pennsylvania is recruiting kids to become Quakers; the list goes on and on.... It would be laughable if you were not serious about your claims.

And I'd be careful bringing up military references if I were you, seeing as how I'm a veteran. Especially since I was serving in order to preserve Freedom, not to force people into following my beliefs.

Protecting their children. I'd bet every parent searches their hearts on how it happened that their child turned out gay or lesbian. And, I notice that they also decry a promiscuous life. Are they homophobes too, these parents of gays and lesbians.

LOL... you create a straw man about how no gay groups are against promiscuity. After you are shown how false that is, you have the gall to say based on your straw man that they must be homophobes?

I don't know if you realize this but I don't call just anyone a homophobe. I don't believe I've called you one. And on another thread I actually defended a Christian from those who were calling her a bigot. I will admit that some gays are too quick to call opposition hate, but honestly this is no different than Christians in the US who claim to be persecuted.

Even they know its all about sex. They are trying to do the best to prtoect their child from the menace of gay life. I don't fault then for that. But, I don't want them near my children and they shouldn't fsault me for that.

Sorry, I do fault you for that. We don't have a right to protect our kids from people we don't like simply because we don't like them. As a kid, I had teachers I didn't like or who I disagreed with.

Despite your straw man, being gay is no more about sex than being heterosexual.

Bunk. It is about turning this society upside down. It is malevolent through and through. Even in today's schools gay life is not celebrated. It is tolerated because kids don't want gay adults harrassing them. I have been working with troubled teens for over two decades.

Seems like you are contradicting yourself here. Either gays are being tolerated or children are being recruited to be gay -- you can't have it both ways.

Lou Sheldon has done a good job of exposing it.

And this book (among others) does an even better job of exposing the tactics and lies of the anti-gay agenda. Not to mention, though I admit this is something of an ad hominem, the man is tainted by his association and financial support from Jack Abramoff.

Though when you look at quotes like this: "A dangerous Marxist/Leftist/Homosexual/Islamic coalition has formed – and we’d better be willing to fight it with everything in our power. These people are playing for keeps. Their hero, Mao Tse Tung is estimated to have murdered upwards of 60 million people during his reign of terror in China. Do we think we can escape such persecution if we refuse to fight for what is right?" he does a pretty good job of discrediting himself.

Althoigh the gays and lesbians get enraged and vioelnt about the guy:http://www.annoy.com/features/doc.html?DocumentID=100722

INTRODUCTION

How many of you haven’t heard of the “Gay Agenda” or “Radical Homosexual Agenda”?
Although many claim there isn't one, here it is, the new, improved radical, homosexual agenda for 2005. A roadmap, if you will, towards destroying nuclear families, and reshaping society to the point that if your son isn’t blowing his professor, don’t expect any graduation ceremonies. For all the fear-mongering pigs that use religion to marginalize, humiliate, electrocute and murder others, may this new Gay Agenda permeate your worst nightmares. Yes, Focus on the Family, Traditional Values Coalition, Concerned Women for America, American Family Association, Family Research Council, Eagle Forum, Alliance Defense Fund, Chrisitian Coaltion, Morality in the Media and all you other [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]s, this means you.

Some magazine or blog or whatever it is that most of us have never heard of is not evidence of any subversive "gay agenda" anymore than Westboro Baptist Church's website is proof that the "Christian agenda" is to kill all gays (though they use a cruder term that is not allowed on this forum).

The very words "Gay" and "Lesbian" denote sex acts of each group.


Feel free to say what you want.

And heterosexual denotes the sex acts of that group? So? Gays no more identify as "gay" as you identify as "heterosexual". Just like you, all they wish is the opportunity to live their life according to their beliefs.

 

[morningstar2651]

Am I the only one to be flashing on the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion"?

Reminds me of the forged affidavits distributed by the AFA about Marilyn Manson.

 

[LittleNipper]

You can't reconcile homosexuality as good or bad because so much of the bible is inconsistent contradicting and false.

If there is a god you'd think he could do better than the bible.

Well, if so much is inconsistent, contradictory, and false in the Bible ---- you should be able to name one.

 

[LittleNipper]

How many times do we have to go through this song and dance? Homosexuality =/= rape, or murder, or pedophilia, or theivery, or any of these things.

No, they just feel free to pretend and role play that that is what's happening while they makeout...

 

[morningstar2651]

 

[selfinflikted]

No, they just feel free to pretend and role play that that is what's happening while they makeout...

??

What does sexual role-playing have to do with anything? Are you going to suggest that only gay people - and not all of them do - role-play in the bedroom? You're rediculous.

 

[selfinflikted]

Reminds me of the forged affidavits distributed by the AFA about Marilyn Manson.

Ya, Manson has caught a lot of flack from christian protesters all throughout their career. It's mostly self-imposed, but effective. Christians didn't realise at the time, and probably still don't, the more controversy they caused over the band, the more album sales went through the roof.

PS I liked their earlier stuff much better.

 

[Maren]

No matter the tact, opposing gay culture is going to get you ridiculed, belittled and accused. I just give it back.

Just as opposing Christian culture is going to get you ridiculed, belittled, and accused. And if you just give back, why did you start out attacking in your first post?

Are you from America? You can't teach Christianity in schools, but you can teach gay life.

I see you are shifting the goal posts, now it is not homosexuality that is taught but "gay life". I suppose that is so you can claim that acknowledging that some kids have two mommies is "teach gay life". But if that is teaching gay life, then teaching the Plymouth Colony was founded by Puritans is teaching Christianity.

My God exists. Yours doesn't. End of that discussion. It also clouds your every opinion and mine too.

No, you have faith that your God exists. Nothing more. And you have no idea of what I believe or the truth of it.

If you think that gay sex is normal, I can see why you were flippant about the calculator. Do we fight or respect each others "choices?" I am not allowed to fight. I can only use words.

I was flippant about the calculator because it was illogical, it ignores reality outside of a single moment of conception. It denies that we recognize that one doesn't need to be a biological father or mother to be a parent; that often it is a stepparent or adoptive parent that is the real parent.

Um, do you see the premise of this thread? The gay rights supporters have done their typical work of spinning convoluted tales to ignore it.

No, you started out the thread with the premise that you are right and anyone that disagrees with you is wrong -- it is obvious from the thread title. So, it is not surprising when your mind was decided before you started the thread that you don't see any evidence.

As long as I only talk in my Church. Yet, gay sex gets proclaimed from the rooftops? (Through satellite TV.)

No, obviously you can talk here. You have the right to present your views in the US. But you do not have the right to enforce your beliefs on others, that was what was stated.

Still not one place that ANYONE can present a gay promoting or supporting text. Not once.

Again, closed minds never see evidence no matter who clearly it is presented.

No matter how you oppose gay culture, if you do you get hammered. It's fascinating to watch Sodom rise.

Ad hominems, how nice. It's about like my stating, "Pharisees, no matter where you go, they are always promoting how much more righteous and correct they are. Now I understand why Christ condemned them."

The ghettoizing of Christians. Thanks for your honesty.

No, you were talking of forcing your beliefs on others. That is ghettoizing of gays -- you prove it with every time you provide examples of the simple mention of two same sex parents as proof of "gay recruitment".

I have written many, many times that I do not care to stop pagans from doing what pagans do. Or, secularists et al.

Just as long as they don't mention it in public, like the homosexuals.

All I seek is a free excange of ideas.

Again, it's hard to see that, especially with the OP title. Rather, you seem to want the free exchange of your ideas and the silencing of opposing ideas.

I'll even accept that it will make me and them feel uncomfortable. I believe that if the Gospel was allowed to be preached and accepted by those that would hear it, society and the world would not be where it is right now.

I became a Christian after much study. It wasn't a knee-jerk response to peer pressure or desire to find a group. It was all about seeing reality all around me.

So you were raised in an atheist home? Your parents never, ever attended a Christian church or taught you basic Christian beliefs? How many differnt religions did you study in this seeing of reality?

While your parents may not have been religious, you were still shaped in your beliefs by your parents and American culture. If you had been raised in Israel, likely you would have chosen Judaism. In other parts of the Middle East, you likely would have found Islam.

Only mankind has the power to screw things up. As the Bible shows, we were created with a special aspect of our nature and after the world was.

No animal can have feelings about that. Why care at all? If nothing bad happens to you, evolution and luck is your freind. Sorry I can't agree with accidents creating accidents that became our world. That's more absurd than crying about bad things happenng to good people.

So God created a world where people are routinely destroyed for no good reason? Or are you going to claim that we don't understand God's purpose, in which case you acknowledge that believing in God does not explain reality -- rather it merely allows you to feel good because "God has a plan"?

No one is arguing with Taoists. Et al. Even Muslims side with atheists. And of course your gay counterparts. Only Jesus gets so many adversaries in one place. But, before you go there, I'm not keen on the persecution/martyrdom complex either. "It is what it is," is a great saying.

So why are you attempting to use a persection complex that the world is against Christians? In fact, I'm sure if you talked to a Muslim they would tell you they are the ones persecuted -- that they are particularly persecuted by Christians. Still, seems a bit hypocritical to in one breath say how persecuted Christians are and in the next breath state you don't like persecution claims.

And I think I issued this challenge once before, if you want to see persecution try going to a public place (especially if it is in a conservative area) and hold hands with a same-sex friends as if you are a couple. I guarantee you'll get a new understanding of persecution.

Even in those countries, something cannot come from nothing.

Ask Honda or the familiy of the deposed Shaw.

Straw man, no one claimed that something could come from nothing. As for your calculator, it is simply flawed (one example was provided above).

Though that reminds me, if something can't come from nothing, where did God come from?

 

[Belk]

No, they just feel free to pretend and role play that that is what's happening while they makeout...

Methinks he doth protest too much...

 

[Maren]

No, they just feel free to pretend and role play that that is what's happening while they makeout...

So you are an expert about gay sex?