"Jesus Camp"

[wanderingone]

The Bible never said not to take your child to a doctor. Luke was a physician. Prayer can motivate the finding of the best doctor, the best treatment, the cause of an ailment. The idiot doesn't get into the lifeboat when one is sent and the flood is rising.

Obviously the bible doesn't say that... but some folks have clearly decided God led them not to use a doctor.. good intentions and all that..you claim that's what matters. All the good intentions in the world don't change the emotional assault those kids at "Jesus Camp" took

 

[LittleNipper]

Obviously the bible doesn't say that... but some folks have clearly decided God led them not to use a doctor.. good intentions and all that..you claim that's what matters. All the good intentions in the world don't change the emotional assault those kids at "Jesus Camp" took

Colossians 4:14 would beg to differ with you.

 

[cantata]

A creature that acts on instinct cannot evolve into a creature that has advanced reason and intellect. If this was true, there would be many other examples of this on earth of other species that have reason and intellect. Everything has apparently evoloved from lower species, yet only one species out of millions uses reason instead of instinct.

So I am gonna ask again. Why are we the only creatures on earth that ponder ourselves and have reason. Could there be a chance maybe that our souls are God given and special?

As I have explained, there were other creatures with childlike reason - homo sapiens probably wiped them out.

Evolution isn't heading anywhere in particular. The creatures of which the world is full do not need humanlike reason to get by. In fact, carrying around a brain as big as ours would likely be a hindrance to them. Our precise evolutionary history led to our developing of highly developed brains; but what good is a highly developed brain to a weevil, say, when weevils are already the most numerous and widespread animals on the planet? Evolving high intelligence inevitably results in a trade-off between that and other beneficial characteristics. Human infants need to be cared for intensely for at least the first six or seven years of their lives, all because of that incredibly complex, slow-to-develop brain. So it's hardly surprising that not all creatures' evolution has gone down the same route.

You've also failed to provide an adequate definition of what you mean by reason. I've seen footage of a captive chimpanzee working out how to get a banana suspended high above her head, by stacking objects in her enclosure and climbing them, and using a stick to hook down the banana. This was a new puzzle for her. She had never seen another chimpanzee doing the same thing. She had to work it out for herself. That is reason.

I think its arrogant to think evolution has a higher ground that intelligent design, espesially considering the great amount of gaps evolution cannot explain.

I think it's arrogant to think that you know better than the vast majority of the scientific community - many of whom are people who have dedicated their lives to studying evolutionary biology.

Both theorys are equal to each other, and both should be taught in schools.

If ID is to be taught in schools, it should be taught in religious studies lessons, not in science classes. It doesn't qualify as science because its claims are unfalsifiable.

Schools should have it, and Im not talking about Kent Hovind creationist type stuff, Im simply talking about having Intelligent Design side by side to help level out what is taught and so the children can question things much better instead of taking evolution as straight on without anything else. To would teach children to question more "Why are there so little transitional fossils" , "why are there so many missing gaps", etc. Teaching evolution straight on is no different than forcing creationism straight on.

I can tell you this: there is as much point in teaching ID side by side with evolutionary theory as there is teaching dissenting arguments to atomic theory or gravitational theory side by side those theories in science classes. Evolutionary theory is just as well-established as atomic and gravitational theory. Each of these theories has "gaps" in it - gaps which, generally speaking, only those at a university level of study will be able to properly grasp and ask questions about. They are not "gaps" that need to be discussed with younger children.

Obama says he is a Baptist...

Good for him. What's your point?

Apes are animals. Humans are not animals. Therefore, apes are not human.

Humans are animals.

 

[LittleNipper]

Obviously the bible doesn't say that... but some folks have clearly decided God led them not to use a doctor.. good intentions and all that..you claim that's what matters. All the good intentions in the world don't change the emotional assault those kids at "Jesus Camp" took

All the "gay" rights and freedom to cuss, perform free sex or kill babies in the womb, do not make an environment that is healthy to raise emotionally stable children ---- good intentions or not.

 

[selfinflikted]

I'm not sure how you intend to further your point (wait, did you even have a point?) with this line on questioning, but I'm in a good mood because it's almost 5:00, so I'll indulge...

So tell me through reasoning, why didn't your parents abort you before you were born...

Well, seeing as I'm not a mind-reader, you'd really have to ask them. I have no idea, but if I had to guess I'd say it has something to do with them thinking abortion is immoral?

...and why does that make any difference.

In the grand scheme of things, it makes no difference. And you know who it would make the least amount of difference to? Me. If i'd been aborted, I'd have never known it, so the point is completely moot... and useless.

 

[mpok1519]

yes, humans are animals; we're classified as such.

Domain - Eucarya - Multi-celled with nucleus
Kingdom - Animala or Metazoa - Can move around, specalized sense organs,...
(Subkingdom) - Metazoa or Eumetazoa - Distinguishes the rest of the animals from sponges
Note: The second classification above, K: Metazoa and SK: Eumetazoa, tends to be more popular now.
(Branches) - bilateria: coelomate: deuterostome
(Grade) - Bilateral - bilaterally symmetrical (front/back, left/right)
(sub-grade) - Coelomata - True body cavities
(SuperPhylum) - Deuterostomia - Develop (embryo) mouth second
Phylum - Chordata - Hollow nerve cord
Some places show SuperPhylum = Chordata and
Phylum = Craniata - bilateral symmetry, bone and/or cartilage
(Plants use Division instead of phylum)
(Subphylum) - Vertebrate - backbone
Euteleostomi - Bony vertebrates
(Superclass or Infraphylum) - Gnathostomata - jawed vertebrates.
Newer, cladistic, classifications include 3 other levels here:
Teleostomi (Dermal bone, fin rays)
Euteleostomi (bony vertebrates)
Sarcopterygii (Lobe-Fin)
Tetrapoda - Four footed gnathostomes - Can live on land.
Class - Mammalia - Hair, Mammary glands for nursing young
(Subclass) - Theria - Live births.
All mammals except monotremes - egg laying e.g. platypus.
(Infraclass) - Eutheria - Placental (unborn children carried in the uterus)
(SuperOrder) - Euarchontoglires
Order - Primate - (Monkeys) - Binocular vision (forward eyes) - opposable thumbs
(Suborder) - Haplorrhini (Anthropoidea & Tarsiodea) - Simple dry nose
Rotating sholder and elbow joints allowing them to swing from their arms.
(Infraorder) - Catarrhini - Downward facing, narrow nostrils
or Simiiformes
(Parvorder) - Catarrhini
(Superfamily) - Hominoidea (Apes) Absence of tails, rounded molars, color vision.
Family - Hominidae - (Great apes) - Complex social behaviors, larger body,
Skeletal modifications for semi-upright posture, 32 teeth
(SubFamily) - Homininae (hominines) - Gorilla, Chimp, Human
(Tribe) - Hominini or hominins - canine tooth, which looks more like an incisor.
Toe bone improved for moving bipedally.
Genus - Homo "man" - Larger brain
Species - Homo Sapien "wise" - Language, more sophisticated tools.
Sub-species (breed, race 3 , strain)
Variety (plants)
Form or cultivar (plants)
Individual (Plants)

http://www.geocities.com/dtmcbride/science/biology/taxonomy.html

 

[stan1980]

Creationists make my blood boil! *Must not get involved* It can only end badly!

 

[Nathan Poe]

All the "gay" rights and freedom to cuss, perform free sex or kill babies in the womb, do not make an environment that is healthy to raise emotionally stable children ---- good intentions or not.

So we agree that good intentions are irrelevent?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Colossians 4:14 would beg to differ with you.

Doesn't differ with us -- we like doctors. It's some of your fellow Christians who eschew medicine.

 

[Abdul Alhazred]

Were Nipper's posts invisible for some reason? I couldn't see them until recently.

Not that I was particularly missing out on much of interest.

 

[Spherical Time]

Obama says he is a Baptist...

Actually, he says he's UCC. As far as I can tell, the UCC isn't technically a Baptist denomination, although they do believe in adult baptism.

 

[wanderingone]

All the "gay" rights and freedom to cuss, perform free sex or kill babies in the womb, do not make an environment that is healthy to raise emotionally stable children ---- good intentions or not.

You keep getting lost in your own explanations. I say your intentions - raising your children to believe in a certain set of values may very well be good... but that no matter what your intentions are, and no matter what your professed values your methods can be incorrect.

After that discussion you turn around to talk about different environments to raise children in. I'm not even arguing the beliefs of the parents of the children who went to Jesus camp. I know people who are opposed to abortion who manage to impart their beliefs without mentally abusing their children.

So you and I both agree.. good intentions are a moot point, led by prayer or not.

 

[Lockguy3000]

can we please get back on topic;
"Jesus Camp"

did anyone remember the lady asking the kid's if they liked her manicured nails?

vanity my favorite sin

 

[WatersMoon110]

can we please get back on topic;
"Jesus Camp"

did anyone remember the lady asking the kid's if they liked her manicured nails?

vanity my favorite sin

Being on topic is boring. *wink*

I found it very odd that the lady seemed to be, herself, exhibiting many of the sins she railed against. I wonder if she was in denial of her own foibles, or if she was speaking out trying to convince herself to stop sinning?

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Being on topic is boring. *wink*

I found it very odd that the lady seemed to be, herself, exhibiting many of the sins she railed against. I wonder if she was in denial of her own foibles, or if she was speaking out trying to convince herself to stop sinning?

Well, hypocrisy abounds when people live by strict guidelines of who is "in" and who is "out."

And there is plenty of precedent for it. Why is it not surprising that Jesus shows almost open contempt for the Pharisees?

 

[LittleNipper]

So we agree that good intentions are irrelevent?

SO we should agree that there is nothing wrong with a JESUS camp, Sunday school, nor Vacation Bible school. The ways of such a worldly generation, who would have the audacity to condemn the attempts of others to try to balance such influences is laughable. Sorry, but it would be wrong to hand the liberals this planet on a silver platter without a fight.

 

[selfinflikted]

SO we should agree that there is nothing wrong with a JESUS camp, Sunday school, nor Vacation Bible school. The ways of such a worldly generation, who would have the audacity to condemn the attempts of others to try to balance such influences is laughable. Sorry, but it would be wrong to hand the liberals this planet on a silver platter without a fight.

Try to keep up, LN. We're not talking about a jesus camp. We're talking about "Jesus Camp". There is nothing wrong with bible school, jesus camp, etc etc.

 

[PetersKeys]

Obamas a baptist? I have to laugh at that. Considering his unhealthy sickening support of abortion.

 

[selfinflikted]

Obamas a baptist? I have to laugh at that. Considering his unhealthy sickening support of abortion.

Although I can't speak for Obama, or anyone else for that matter, I'd be willing to bet that most do not support abortion. People always seem confuse the idea of supporting the right to choose and OMGZORZ! BABY KILLINGZEZ!

 

[LittleNipper]

You keep getting lost in your own explanations. I say your intentions - raising your children to believe in a certain set of values may very well be good... but that no matter what your intentions are, and no matter what your professed values your methods can be incorrect.

After that discussion you turn around to talk about different environments to raise children in. I'm not even arguing the beliefs of the parents of the children who went to Jesus camp. I know people who are opposed to abortion who manage to impart their beliefs without mentally abusing their children.

So you and I both agree.. good intentions are a moot point, led by prayer or not.

If GOD has been considered and prayed to concerning the preparation of any said child instruction, the children have been prayed for, the instructors have been prayed for, then there will come good out of that endeavor. That is what prayer is all about --- enlisting GOD's guidance. That is where public schools fail their students. They try to do what they FEEL is right, but their feelings are not good enough.